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dynomite writes:

that's fucking bullshit, we went to war with iraq for nobody's interests but our own(and maybe israels), you fucking cunt

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Grav said:

zionist pro-israel think-tanks are basically writing the book on middle-east occupation, and we find the american media(and thus americans) constantly parroting the same exact narrative,  that muslim nations are terrorist, and America must take action against them. 

israel has a history of framing muslims through false-flags(lavon affair, USS Liberty, al-queda impersonations) and using false intelligence to keep this narrative going.  and also operating large spy-rings within the U.S. going largely unchecked.  FOX recently did a segment specifically on this subject and it was pulled off the air.  why?

israel also has a significant amount of influence over U.S. government.  take a look at some of the top members of our recent presidential administrations, (and the foreign policy decisions made by those admins)  you would be quite willfully ignorant to not see they are acting with significant interest in israel.

i don't really have a stance on if israel should exist or not or whose land it rightfully belongs to, i just think America should cease military aid to israel immediately, as it doesn't benefit us in any way and is directly contributing to death and destruction and violent occupation.  i think we have enough blood on our hands fighting israel's enemies.

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p.s.  the title of this thread is pretty funny when you look at the endless stream of threads over muslim nations and what should be done about them.

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this is just my opinion but i think it goes to show the influence on how we generally think about geopolitics.  if it's about iran, iraq, islam, al-queda, etc.  the content and claims therein is self-evident, met with very little or no investigation.  however if it's about Israel it is met with skepticism. "what about israel?  what do you mean? prove it!"

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johnm214 said: I also don't hear them making crazy speeches about getting rid of other nations, and other overtly beligerant foreign policy stances.

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The occupation of Israel is simply a crusader's wet dream come true.

It plainly obvious that it was orchestrated and by the true aggressors - the evolution of the esoteric groups deriving the crusaders and other such occult factions.

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True aggressors?  That would be humanity right?  Take a look at world history and you will notice that the true aggressor nations can change with the ups and downs of getting and losing power.

I may be somewhat unique here. I'm not on any side. I'm not on America's side and I'm not on their enemies side.  I just observe like an alien watching the machinations of some bizarre acting  animal species.  Why do I feel this way? Because I have come to believe that everything will be this way no matter what I believe or what I would prefer.

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johnm214 said:

Grav said:

zionist pro-israel think-tanks are basically writing the book on middle-east occupation, and we find the american media(and thus americans) constantly parroting the same exact narrative,  that muslim nations are terrorist, and America must take action against them. 

israel has a history of framing muslims through false-flags(lavon affair, USS Liberty, al-queda impersonations) and using false intelligence to keep this narrative going.  and also operating large spy-rings within the U.S. going largely unchecked.  FOX recently did a segment specifically on this subject and it was pulled off the air.  why?

israel also has a significant amount of influence over U.S. government.  take a look at some of the top members of our recent presidential administrations, (and the foreign policy decisions made by those admins)  you would be quite willfully ignorant to not see they are acting with significant interest in israel.

i don't really have a stance on if israel should exist or not or whose land it rightfully belongs to, i just think America should cease military aid to israel immediately, as it doesn't benefit us in any way and is directly contributing to death and destruction and violent occupation.  i think we have enough blood on our hands fighting israel's enemies.

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Thanks for the reply.  I'm a bit confused though: what does this have to do with the question?  If we accept that Israel has a signifigant influence on America, what does that have to do with anything?

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p.s.  the title of this thread is pretty funny when you look at the endless stream of threads over muslim nations and what should be done about them.

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Please explain this.  What does an endless sream of threads regarding muslim nations have to do with the title of my thread? 

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this is just my opinion but i think it goes to show the influence on how we generally think about geopolitics.  if it's about iran, iraq, islam, al-queda, etc.  the content and claims therein is self-evident, met with very little or no investigation.  however if it's about Israel it is met with skepticism. "what about israel?  what do you mean? prove it!"

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What are you speaking of here, percisely? 

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amilibertine said:

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johnm214 said: I also don't hear them making crazy speeches about getting rid of other nations, and other overtly beligerant foreign policy stances.

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You're not looking in the right places then.  The Israeli government constantly calls for the destruction of it's neighbors (and they have invaded or bombed nearly every one of their border countries).  The also have laws that make non-jews second class citizens.

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Grav said:

you don't think it's any of an american's business what nations are influencing his government?  can't help you with that one...

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Grav said:]and zionism isn't confined to israel. it is alive and well in the U.S. government, hence why the U.S. military is being used to wage war on Israel's enemies, and why we are sending billions of $$ for israel to murder and destroy.

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Grav said:
i'm talking about the multitude of threads about iran or iraq or afghanistan or wherever harboring terrorists or getting ready to send off nukes, or otherwise posing a dangerous threat to America with no verification, and based on intelligence sources that have been proven faulty numerous times.  people still presume that we are somehow morally justified by occupying iraq and afghanistan, drone bombing pakistan, etc. with no proof of anything, it's just a given because western zionist influenced media tells us so.  contrast that with criticism of israel and it brings out all the skeptics demanding outstanding proof and verification of any claims.

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Grav said:it sounds like you are limiting your sources of information.

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zappaisgod said:

amilibertine said:

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johnm214 said: I also don't hear them making crazy speeches about getting rid of other nations, and other overtly beligerant foreign policy stances.

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You're not looking in the right places then.  The Israeli government constantly calls for the destruction of it's neighbors (and they have invaded or bombed nearly every one of their border countries).  The also have laws that make non-jews second class citizens.

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Well I'm sure you will be able to provide us all with several examples of the the Israeli government calling for the destruction of it's neighboring states.  Did you know that there are Arabs and Muslims in the Knesset?  True story, brah.

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I've always wanted to post like Seuss and I'm stealing his posting style without the intellect because I'm too lazy at the moment to cut and paste.

>The jews gambled as well and won.... for now.

Wouldn't you rather have peace?  And how can you have the land of monotheism without a Jewish state?

>When you mean most nations, which one are you talking about?  The ones that went to war with Israel and entered into treaties or don't openly support attacking them. Voting against the settlements is a completely different matter. I never commented on that.

>have you ever asked the people of morroco whether they prefer the jews who want to build a temple over one of their holy sites or their muslim brothers of palestine first? you may have gotten the first as an answer but you probably asked the monarchy.

Say what now?  Never mind don't answer that.

>what are your political goals?

One day I hope to aspire to become a Communist-Anarchist like yourself and reach the peak of political thought.  By the way isn't Communist-Anarchist a misnomer of some sort?  Oh I get it Chomsky is the rage nowadays. Never mind. I have no political goals if peace is a goal I would choose that.  Both sides have their faults and I don't support any side.

>You forget the blockade, the lack of water, the people who got their bone broken by stone, the people who got their bone broken by stones, the people who got their bones broken by stones and their little children who lost their legs.

Would you be so kind to point that scope at the other side and see their wrongdoings?

>Occupation is not a joke

Two state solution? Give back some of the occupied terrorities.  Maybe cut into an Arab states since they have so much more land than the Jews.

>you are probably a fucking children you would cry like a bitch under occupation have your nation ever been occupied in the last 200 years?

I live in the United States of America, the only country in the world that citizens openly prepare and fantasize about an invasion so go right ahead and make our day.  We all have guns, even the grandmothers and grandfathers not to mention the world's biggest military tools in the history of mankind.

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There will be no peace with the jewish imperialist state, sometime you need to actually read past the official declaration of politicians, something that you do very well with your own politicians.

why did you ignore my second paragraph? it was exactly my whole answer to all of your question, i will, just like a children, hold your hand and explain closely, like if you were retarded for example. Ask yourself if the people of any of those countries in the following image except one had a referendum on whether they wanted israelis to pack their shit up and leave, what side would win.


oh , and to show you how ethnic nationalism is not a joke, let me show you something about the history of my country.




I am not a communist-anarchist i am a Third position National-bolshevik , i support the front national of france and the Iranian revolution.

communeart said:

Quote:

I've always wanted to post like Seuss and I'm stealing his posting style without the intellect because I'm too lazy at the moment to cut and paste.

>The jews gambled as well and won.... for now.

Wouldn't you rather have peace?  And how can you have the land of monotheism without a Jewish state?

>When you mean most nations, which one are you talking about?  The ones that went to war with Israel and entered into treaties or don't openly support attacking them. Voting against the settlements is a completely different matter. I never commented on that.

>have you ever asked the people of morroco whether they prefer the jews who want to build a temple over one of their holy sites or their muslim brothers of palestine first? you may have gotten the first as an answer but you probably asked the monarchy.

Say what now?  Never mind don't answer that.

>what are your political goals?

One day I hope to aspire to become a Communist-Anarchist like yourself and reach the peak of political thought.  By the way isn't Communist-Anarchist a misnomer of some sort?  Oh I get it Chomsky is the rage nowadays. Never mind. I have no political goals if peace is a goal I would choose that.  Both sides have their faults and I don't support any side.

>You forget the blockade, the lack of water, the people who got their bone broken by stone, the people who got their bone broken by stones, the people who got their bones broken by stones and their little children who lost their legs.

Would you be so kind to point that scope at the other side and see their wrongdoings?

>Occupation is not a joke

Two state solution? Give back some of the occupied terrorities.  Maybe cut into an Arab states since they have so much more land than the Jews.

>you are probably a fucking children you would cry like a bitch under occupation have your nation ever been occupied in the last 200 years?

I live in the United States of America, the only country in the world that citizens openly prepare and fantasize about an invasion so go right ahead and make our day.  We all have guns, even the grandmothers and grandfathers not to mention the world's biggest military tools in the history of mankind.

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There will be no peace with the jewish imperialist state, sometime you need to actually read past the official declaration of politicians, something that you do very well with your own politicians.

why did you ignore my second paragraph? it was exactly my whole answer to all of your question, i will, just like a children, hold your hand and explain closely, like if you were retarded for example. Ask yourself if the people of any of those countries in the following image except one had a referendum on whether they wanted israelis to pack their shit up and leave, what side would win.


oh , and to show you how ethnic nationalism is not a joke, let me show you something about the history of my country.




I am not a communist-anarchist i am a Third position National-bolshevik , i support the front national of france and the Iranian revolution.

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However the assumption that the 2 options are the current system (that will erase Palestine fully in a matter of a single or a few decades) and the annihilation is one that is fully loaded. Why do you think this is the dichotomy of choices here?

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Johnm, I think that some of the reasons your OP is called biased are for one the topic which is rife with bias. You should never ask someone is something they have an opinion on is any of their buisness and not expect to sound antagonistic

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Further, your OP as well as your following posts seem to suggest that the issue here is between the existence of the occupation vs the existence of the state of Israel

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To me your post seemed profoundly naive of the issues, though you probibly post this way often to try to ask questions from a (american media informed) neutral perspective. This is what prompted my question as to weather or not you were really naive of the aggressions of the Israeli state. To someone else this may have looked antagonistic or biased. I can see why you are confused by accusations of bias, but your questions do seem to contain somewhat loaded language.

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What does my perspective have to do with anything at all?  If the questions are unfair than you can certainly show that to be the case- though I've no idea what my understanding or the degree to which I'm influenced by American media has to do with anything. 

Its worth noting that despite the very clear questions, those who purport to find fault with Israel have universally criticized unstated presumptions that they claim, but do not show, to underlie my questions, and have continued to make other unsupported accusations as to my education, bias and other factors rather than address the issue.

If my claimed bias really does have anything to do with these questions, then it would be nice if someone would do more than just parrot that claim, and actually show how the questions are unfair or how my bias is evident. 

This whole thread has been pretty ridiculous.  The only thing I can think of being similar is when I made a post in the chemistry and pharmacology forum attempting to rebut the oft-stated claims around these parts that "marijuana hasn't killed anyone/can't kill you" and "isn't addictive".  Other than that post, I can't recall more off topic erroneous nonsense ever being trotted out continuously.  Guess we know what the sacred cows are around here:  apparently its pot and Israel sucking.  Just don't ask anyone why they feel the way they do

Icelander said:

I may be somewhat unique here. I'm not on any side. I'm not on America's side and I'm not on their enemies side.  I just observe like an alien watching the machinations of some bizarre acting  animal species.  Why do I feel this way? Because I have come to believe that everything will be this way no matter what I believe or what I would prefer.

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I never choose sides, either, and I, too, observe the human species and its workings as if I were an alien.

Icelander said:

Icelander ftw.

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I've learned a lot about Israel and Zionism by looking through this thread; I've never previously had much interest in this group of people so I've never researched, or know much about them. From what I've read so far, it appears that, for some reason, Jews were given a piece of land that did not belong to them by people who did not own it. I'm not sure why this happened, and I'm not sure why the Jews accepted the land while knowing full well that it isn't being given to them by the rightful owners; I know that there is some sort of religious significance to the land, but to what extent I'm not sure. Now, the Jews are stuck in perpetual warfare with the Palestinians (the people from whom they took land), and for some reason they're complaining. They got free land, and they're complaining. They are apparently backed by many of the world's superpowers, and they're still complaining.

This is basically the extent to which I'm aware of the whole Israeli controversy, or whatever you want to call it; I don't understand why a country would receive stolen land, while knowing full well that the owners of that land are not going to be happy with them, seems rather retarded IMO. Why didn't they just stay where they were, instead of accepting stolen land? IMO, they are basically asking for war by accepting stolen land, so they have no grounds to complain about Palestinian acts of war that occur at or within their borders.

I'm truly puzzled as to why Israel gets such special treatment; they had people steal land for them, and they receive some military defense from superpowers. Is there any other country today whose history and/or current situation is even remotely similar to this one's?

johnm214 said:

I have.  I also wrote it.

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I quite mean it when I ask what business is it of folks that zionism and Israel exist

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Grav said:

you are obviously still having trouble grasping the simple connection between USA's financial support and the israel/palestine conflict hence why you are repeatedly asking for someone to explain it to you, even after it's been done so repeatedly.  i will leave you to your ignorance.

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Perhaps it is you and the other that are having trouble expressing your opinion in a logical,  intelligent, and coherent manner rather than ignorance on the part of your audience.