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nw_shroomy
NoN-stranger


Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 1,332
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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: nw_shroomy]
#9565596 - 01/07/09 04:11 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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This is a good read.
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With all the news lately of the death and destruction happening in "the Holy Land" this past week, it's good to know that Israel, the Middle East's "only fledgling democracy," has at its disposal "the world's largest and most trusted source of news and information" to help explain away all the unfortunate results unexpectedly occurring after its 1-ton bombs are unintentionally dropped on Palestinian non-combatants and civilians in Gaza.
Who knew?
You'd think it would be enough that the Israeli army boasts all the cutting-edge, U.S.-manufactured, mission-accomplishing technology that U.S. taxpayer money can be looted pay for — or, that the permeation of the U.S. government, media editorial boards, "civil rights" groups, and academia by Israelis and Israeli "advocates" was at all-time levels. You'd figure they could just bomb or brain-cleanse their way to "victory."
Boy, were you wrong!
As it turns out, the "most moral army in the world" and the state it represents — "America's best friend" — require even more than that in order to take the load off the rest of the Amen crowd back in the States. Lo and behold, those darn ankle-biting opponents of Israeli liberation from the Palestinian existential threat are relentless!
No problemo. For whenever the most powerful military power in the Middle East needs that extra boost of rocket-propelled propaganda, they turn to The Associated Press to make sure we "understand" it wasn't really their fault. I call this phenomenon the "informational secondary explosion" — so-named after one of the IDF's favorite explanations for why the accidental and unfortunate results of its heroic airstrikes "appear to be" so "collaterally damaging."
Here's how it works.
The first explosion is the initial, shocking account of the death of women, children, elderly, etc., and the obliteration of mosques, ambulances, universities, and such; while the crucial, secondary explosion is the unbiased, objective, conscientious, contextual background on the "unintended recipients" of said fate. The informational secondary explosion has the suggestive net effect of telling the reader: "See? It wasn't all that bad. When you put 2 and 2 together you get — uh, well — legitimate targets!"
For instance, a story broke the other day about an Israeli airstrike on a five-storey building in the women's wing of Gaza's oldest university. Thank goodness for Israel's otherwise spotless image, no casualties were reported. (Sheeew!) Still, in the informational secondary explosion, AP made sure that we "knew" that the university, like all major universities, housed a security apparatus. We were told that, because the security apparatus was linked to Hamas, the ruling government in Gaza, the building, like perhaps all buildings in Gaza by the same standard, was "one of the most prominent Hamas symbols in Gaza." [1]
(Thank God it wasn't actually "seen as" a civilian object, where non-combatants go every day to learn in hopes that they could make something more of, say, their miserable lives, under, say, a belligerent occupation. Otherwise, the noble Israeli airstrike would've been seen as a so-called war crime.)
Are you catching on?
In another example — the leveling of one of many mosques accidentally targeted this past week by the IDF — AP's blast of post-mortem propaganda came in the form of an assurance that those Islamic, Israel-destruction-seeking, militant, Hamas militants were storing weapons inside, causing a secondary explosion to go off, which caused all the ensuing civilian carnage.
It wasn't the initial, wedding-party-erasing effect of the 1-ton bomb that killed them, you see; it was that weapons cache that was hidden inside the mosque, according to Israeli sources. (And we know that the IDF, being the "most moral army in the world," would never lie about something like that.)
The ordnance secondary explosion version of the informational secondary explosion technique is the most common. Just yesterday alone, AP probably used it more times than you could count on all the fingers of all the charred hands of all the Palestinian children killed by those Palestinian-induced secondary explosions these past few days.
Take, for example, the AP report on the death of Nizar Rayan, "the Hamas militant leader killed Thursday when Israel dropped a one-ton bomb on his home." According to our secondary-explosives experts, "20 people, including all four of Rayan's wives and 10 of his children" were killed. [2]
Uh oh! Danger ahead for the noble image of the "Jewish state"!
But fret not, for it wasn't the initial explosion — the one-ton bomb — that heroically exterminated the militant leader and his family!
Israel's military said the homes of Hamas leaders are being used to store missiles and other weapons, and the hit on Rayan's house triggered secondary explosions from the stockpile there. [Duh! Everyone knows that it takes much, much more than a 2,000-pound bomb to raze one large house. I mean, c'mon!]
Not only that, but the informational secondary explosion on the ordnance secondary explosion created a chain reaction of secondary informational secondary explosions!
Boom!
Rayan, 49, ranked among Hamas' top five decision-makers. A professor of Islamic law, he was known for his close ties to the group's military wing and was respected in Gaza for donning combat fatigues and personally participating in clashes against Israeli forces. He sent one of his sons on an October 2001 suicide mission that killed two Israeli settlers in Gaza. [And as we know, those "settlers" are never legitimate military targets* themselves!]
Pow!
Israeli defense officials said the military had called Rayan's home and fired a warning missile before destroying the building. [How very moral of them to separate themselves from the terrorists!**]
Ka-bam!
Rayan . . . was known for openly defying Israel and in the past had led crowds to the homes of wanted Hamas figures — as if daring Israel to strike and risk the lives of civilians. [How dare he do that according to unnamed sources! How. Dare. He!]
"Take that, you Palestinian Goliaths!" says the underfoot Israeli army.
"Let that be a lesson to you and your massive army of advocates in the mainstream media!" shout the undermanned and, until now, outmaneuvered Israel advocates.
As you can see, the most effective use of the informational secondary explosion is when civilian non-combatants are killed as a result the deadly blast from those Palestinian-induced, ordnance secondary explosions — themselves, triggered unintentionally by the IDF's ordnance primary explosions. And there's no telling what kind of chain reaction all those Hamas explosives (which, thanks to AP, we "know" are being hidden in every ambulance, home, mosque, school, and refugee camp unintentionally targeted by the IDF) will cause.
But that's not a problem, you see — at least PR-wise — because as long as you have the largest, most trusted, and most sought-after news wire service in the universe at your beck and call to relate your official information on the atrocity collateral damage, you should never, ever have to worry that your beloved leaders will have to account for something they weren't really responsible for anyway.
http://www.nolanchart.com/article5743.html
-------------------- Spawn Ratio Calculator http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7803673#7803673 I only grow edibles.Any info I give ONLY applies to gourmet mushrooms.
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nw_shroomy
NoN-stranger


Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 1,332
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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: Redstorm]
#9565625 - 01/07/09 04:14 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: Also, when Hamas is firing from civilians areas, those areas automatically become military ones.
well there you go,under that statement ,all civilians can be killed cause Israel says there was hamas in that neighborhood.
-------------------- Spawn Ratio Calculator http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7803673#7803673 I only grow edibles.Any info I give ONLY applies to gourmet mushrooms.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: nw_shroomy]
#9565698 - 01/07/09 04:24 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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Well, it isn't just Israel saying that, is it? As I posted earlier, the AP reported neighbors saying it. Palestinian neighbors as reported by a seemingly Arab named reporter.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: doitagain]
#9565716 - 01/07/09 04:27 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
doitagain said: it's pathetic that you're a moderator here.
There is no intelligence requirement for mods. My apologies to Diploid and Phred.
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 16,920
Loc:
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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: zappaisgod]
#9565763 - 01/07/09 04:34 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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I think his user title is "dumber than advertised" for a reason
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: Seuss]
#9565816 - 01/07/09 04:41 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > 2-3% collateral casualties is normal
Funny... I can't even find a decent definition that is commonly accepted for 'collateral casualties'. I'm curious where you pulled these numbers from...
commonly accepted doesnt equal normal, civilian casualties are never commonly accepted
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: zappaisgod]
#9565845 - 01/07/09 04:49 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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zappaisgod said: You have an incredibly fertile ass that produces these ersatz "facts", Helmut. How many Gaza casualties were there before the rockets? Here's a few. http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=265031&version=1&template_id=39&parent_id=21
you forgot that last part
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Since then, at least 580 Palestinians have been killed, nearly 100 of them children,
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: KillerPicklez]
#9565929 - 01/07/09 05:05 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
KillerPicklez said: here you go:
Palestinian firing a rocket from outside a school I saw this same video on CNN last night @ about 1:10 you see the rocket fired
that's pretty damning footage, gunship filming, rockets/mortars fired, terrorists running away from the scene and the IDF still hit the school and no one radioed the position these guys ran to which enabled them to fire on the school
sounds like genocide
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: doitagain]
#9565975 - 01/07/09 05:12 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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doitagain said:
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Prisoner#1 said:
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zouden said:
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KillerPicklez said: I think you are incredibly wrong. If Israel all of a sudden decided to extend Palestinian territory to the original boundaries then majority of Palestinians would view this as a Hamas victory. You completely ignore the ideology that Hamas has. The extermination of Israel
You give an inch, they want a mile.
Sure, but the majority of Palestinians don't follow Hamas's ideology. They want to live in peace, just like the majority of people on earth.
I've posted a link to hamas leaders just wishing to have the boundries restored to the pre '67 lines, israel will have nothing to do with that, the want to continue the fighting
israel says it's an extermination effort
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/world/israel-we-will-not-stop-in-gaza/2008/12/28/1230399077688.html
If Israel offered that hamas would accept it, built up strength, and use their more strategic borders to engage in another assault on Israel. Peace is possible with the more moderate palestinian fatah (maybe) but not with Hamas.
the article you posted says nothing of the sort, it's pathetic that you're a moderator here.
maybe you should have gone back a few posts to where the article was that's easy to fix, all you have to do is ask instead of getting all worked up and insulting people, as I stated just above that one "israel says it's an extermination effort"
the article it's self states "Israel will not stop"
seriously, if there's some misunderstanding you should ask me to clear it up, I'm more than happy to, here's the link to the post in question, maybe that will aid in your understanding http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9564416#Post9564416
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doitagain
He-Bro



Registered: 02/22/07
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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9566099 - 01/07/09 05:26 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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you are practically unintelligible, hitting the bottle hard again I imagine, and the only misunderstanding was on your end.
If Israel offered that hamas would accept it, built up strength, and use their more strategic borders to engage in another assault on Israel. Peace is possible with the more moderate palestinian fatah (maybe) but not with Hamas.
The above paragraph was in response to the idea of returning to the 67 borders. Not any article that you may have mentioned.
then when i say "the article says nothing of the sort" it is in response to you calling it an extermination effort.
First of all the article says "we will not stop." That does not equal "we will exterminate."
Furthermore, the phrase "we will not stop" is not even sourced. It is in the title of the article, but nowhere in the article is that phrased quoted by an israeli gov't spokesperson.
it does say this

but i can't imagine how you could possibly read that and think genocide.
You are so full of shit...
-------------------- now i hear the police comin after me
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: doitagain]
#9566164 - 01/07/09 05:36 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
doitagain said: First of all the article says "we will not stop." That does not equal "we will exterminate."
well they dont want to sound like the nazis do they
Quote:
Furthermore, the phrase "we will not stop" is not even sourced. It is in the title of the article, but nowhere in the article is that phrased quoted by an israeli gov't spokesperson.
fine... I have to do all the work
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehud_Olmert http://www.newser.com/story/16652/israel-this-war-will-not-stop.html
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“This war will not stop,” said Ehud Olmert.
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You are so full of shit...
are you also incapable of actually discussing an issue without resorting to this kind of stuff, what ever happened to the 'intelligent debate' that people used to enjoy back in the old days... wow, the MTV generation sure is disappointing
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: doitagain]
#9566169 - 01/07/09 05:37 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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doitagain said: you are practically unintelligible, hitting the bottle hard again I imagine, and the only misunderstanding was on your end.
If Israel offered that hamas would accept it, built up strength, and use their more strategic borders to engage in another assault on Israel. Peace is possible with the more moderate palestinian fatah (maybe) but not with Hamas.
did you check the link?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: doitagain]
#9566180 - 01/07/09 05:39 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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Meanwhile, Hamas vows the destruction of all Israel and the death of all Jews. Pris was in Ft Lauderdale the other day.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,477450,00.html
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Most of the chants were run-of-the-mill; men and women waving Palestinian flags called Israel's invasion of Gaza a "crime," while the pro-Israel group carried signs calling the Hamas-run territory a "terror state."
But as the protest continued and crowds grew, one woman Pris in a hijab began to shout curses and slurs that shocked Jewish activists in the city, which has a sizable Jewish population.
"Go back to the oven," shePris shouted, calling for the counter-protesters to die in the manner that the Nazis used to exterminate Jews during the Holocaust.
"You need a big oven, that's what you need," shePris yelled.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: zappaisgod]
#9566250 - 01/07/09 05:52 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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you cant do any better than that?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9566299 - 01/07/09 05:59 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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Of course I can, Rolf. I just choose not to. You're doing a pretty good job all by yourself.
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doitagain
He-Bro



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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9566316 - 01/07/09 06:02 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
doitagain said: First of all the article says "we will not stop." That does not equal "we will exterminate."
well they dont want to sound like the nazis do they
Quote:
Furthermore, the phrase "we will not stop" is not even sourced. It is in the title of the article, but nowhere in the article is that phrased quoted by an israeli gov't spokesperson.
fine... I have to do all the work
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehud_Olmert http://www.newser.com/story/16652/israel-this-war-will-not-stop.html
Quote:
“This war will not stop,” said Ehud Olmert.
Quote:
You are so full of shit...
are you also incapable of actually discussing an issue without resorting to this kind of stuff, what ever happened to the 'intelligent debate' that people used to enjoy back in the old days... wow, the MTV generation sure is disappointing
This war will not stop still doesn't mean they are genocidal, what is the point you are trying to make here. The war is against hamas, not palestinians, so even if they didn't stop until every target was dead it still wouldn't be genocide.
I say you are full of shit because half of what you post is a blatant lie, if you were to not be full of shit i wouldn't say you were.
part of having an intelligent debate is not saying things you know to be blatant untruths, misrepresentations of the truth. If you show you can do that i will refrain from calling you full of shit.
-------------------- now i hear the police comin after me
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: zappaisgod]
#9566317 - 01/07/09 06:02 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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I'm doing a damned good job, thanks for noticing
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: doitagain]
#9566336 - 01/07/09 06:04 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
doitagain said: This war will not stop still doesn't mean they are genocidal, what is the point you are trying to make here. The war is against hamas, not palestinians, so even if they didn't stop until every target was dead it still wouldn't be genocide.
I say you are full of shit because half of what you post is a blatant lie, if you were to not be full of shit i wouldn't say you were.
part of having an intelligent debate is not saying things you know to be blatant untruths, misrepresentations of the truth. If you show you can do that i will refrain from calling you full of shit.
please prove the 'lies' wrong, show us where israel is offering that olive branch
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PsyAlien
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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9566342 - 01/07/09 06:06 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Lie. Israel has started nothing violent
of course not, they're always the victims
this is so true. and so funny!!!!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9566382 - 01/07/09 06:12 PM (15 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
please prove the 'lies' wrong, show us where israel is offering that olive branch
Israel offered the Olive Branch in 2005 when they unilaterally evacuated the Gaza Strip and handed it over to the murdering morons. This resulted in endless rocket and mortar attacks from the murdering morons in the Gaza Strip. Now the Olive Branch is a great giant stick going right up the murdering morons' ass. This was the choice of the murdering morons. They have chosen to be a death cult and so it is death they reap.
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