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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421] * 3
    #26842388 -

That’s supports my claim, your claiming more people died in the Floyd protests , which is untrue .


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Edited by Psilynut2 (07/24/20 12:16 PM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26842392 -

Vahn thinks it's self-evident that more than 63 people have been killed in the Floyd protests.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26842394 -

No, what I said was the 63 people that died during the riots.. the CRITERIA for their death is just... "died during the riots."

You want to add up the number of people who have died in Chicago, New York, Portland and Minnesota during the rioting? Let alone all the other cities? Crimes and murder is already WAY up.

Trust me, this has already surpassed the L.A. rioting. Minneapolis ALONE as a city has the equivalent in damages to the L.A. rioting already... add all the other cities in and it's WAY past it.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26842395 -

Enlil said:
Vahn thinks it's self-evident that more than 63 people have been killed in the Floyd protests.



I think I've been reading the news and have seen sweeping increases in murder in the larger cities over the last few months.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26842405 -

Psilynut2 said:
Ok , so now is where you post a source or admit its make believe .


:whathesaid:

Not saying you're necessarily wrong, but for most people here that's not common sense.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26842422 -

I think what he’s trying to say is that there will be no rioting at all if Biden wins .


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26842424 -

Vahn421 said:
Enlil said:
Vahn thinks it's self-evident that more than 63 people have been killed in the Floyd protests.



I think I've been reading the news and have seen sweeping increases in murder in the larger cities over the last few months.


What percentage increase?
post the numbers.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26842434 -

While Chicago was roiled by another day of protests and looting in the wake of George Floyd’s murder, 18 people were killed Sunday, May 31, making it the single most violent day in Chicago in six decades, according to the University of Chicago Crime Lab. The lab’s data doesn’t go back further than 1961.

I don't feel like digging up every example, but the 18 people killed in one day in Chicago are as correlated to the rioting in Chicago as much as the 63 people in LA were corrrelated to the rioting in LA.

In other words, loosely and indirectly. Some killings may be directly or inadvertently linked to the presence of the riot, and some just happened on the same day coincidentally.

L.A. didn't go through each murder doing the riots and go, "No, this one had nothing to do with the rioting so we won't count it." They found bodies, piled them up, and said "63."


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26842437 -

Here's one more, though. More linked to my argument that defunding the police isn't a good idea, but you could also argue the rioting has indirectly been linked to these murders, too.

(a 205% increase is a THREEFOLD increase.)


https://nypost.com/2020/07/04/shootings-soar-205-percent-after-nypd-disbands-anti-crime-unit/


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/24/20 12:44 PM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26842443 -

And furthermore, the proof that the destruction to PROPERTY has already surpassed the damage during the L.A. rioting (1 billion in damages) is even easier to prove.

Minneapolis ALONE as a city is almost there.

This was two weeks ago. There's been more damage since, though not as bad.

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/minneapolis-denied-federal-aid-over-500-million-worth-of-damages-from-riots/


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/24/20 12:47 PM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26842724 -

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/24/world/coronavirus-response-resurgence-wave-intl/index.html

So the countries which had a model response to covid are still in trouble. This supports my view that the US with its ingrained fierce individualism and long borders never had a chance to get on top - short of the imposition of martial law. Trump's performance was PR driven, based on wrong assumptions and unnecessarily polarising but ultimately we were always going to end up where we are now.

That being the case maybe Sweden's strategy of just letting the thing burn out without shutting down was right - if you cannot stop it then don't kill the economy just to appear to be doing something. I am optimistic about the vaccine though we should have at least one in a few months

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26842744 -

The US won't have a vaccine in a few months, unless we seriously drop our testing standards.  Other countries might.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26842757 -

These situation have been modelled at depth. In an epidemiological sense what matters is infection rate and fatality rate. For some combinations of the two the spread cannot be stopped and the right strategy is to focus on keeping the economy going to help with the recovery stage. There is only so much money we can collectively borrow to throw at things so it is critical to choose the right targets.

Looks to me that we have underestimated the infection rate and overestimated the death rate of covid which led to the wrong strategy being adopted - under social pressure to "save lives". These are tough choices to make and in a polarized political environment those at the top will be blamed whatever they do.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26842763 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Brian Jones said:
He (Trump) was who the Russians wanted in office.


You're into conspiracy theory now (unless you have proof)?  I already showed evidence they DIDN'T want Trump.

From RT:



Where's your evidence they did?  An opinion piece in the WSJ?


I have EVIDENCE from Russian State television


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R.I.P
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Modest Mouse
Zappa, Jellyfish
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
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& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26842782 -

Are you saying Russia wanted Trump, even though their state owned television kept playing lots of anti-Trump videos to United States voters to influence the election against him?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26842795 -

So in a surprising way Trump was right - the fatality rate of covid is well under 1% and his flu analogy was not out of order. It has also proven correct that therapeutics and vaccine are the most promising approaches.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26842845 -

Metoo said:
So in a surprising way Trump was right - the fatality rate of covid is well under 1% and his flu analogy was not out of order. It has also proven correct that therapeutics and vaccine are the most promising approaches.


The common flu doesn't leave people with potentially permanent organ damage. This black and white approach to accessing the Covid virus is very naive in my opinion. It's not just die or live, it's potentially live and suffer for the rest of your life.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26842864 -

Metoo said:
These situation have been modelled at depth. In an epidemiological sense what matters is infection rate and fatality rate. For some combinations of the two the spread cannot be stopped and the right strategy is to focus on keeping the economy going to help with the recovery stage. There is only so much money we can collectively borrow to throw at things so it is critical to choose the right targets.

Looks to me that we have underestimated the infection rate and overestimated the death rate of covid which led to the wrong strategy being adopted - under social pressure to "save lives". These are tough choices to make and in a polarized political environment those at the top will be blamed whatever they do.



If the heathcare system in an area gets overwhelmed the death rate is likely to go up. One reason it's at the rate it is, is people are receiving supportive care.

Edited by falcon (07/24/20 05:12 PM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: qman]
    #26842966 -

qman said:
Metoo said:
So in a surprising way Trump was right - the fatality rate of covid is well under 1% and his flu analogy was not out of order. It has also proven correct that therapeutics and vaccine are the most promising approaches.


The common flu doesn't leave people with potentially permanent organ damage. This black and white approach to accessing the Covid virus is very naive in my opinion. It's not just die or live, it's potentially live and suffer for the rest of your life.


https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/symptoms.htm#:~:text=Flu%20Complications,-Most%20people%20who&text=Other%20possible%20serious%20complications%20triggered,%2C%20respiratory%20and%20kidney%20failure).

"Other possible serious complications triggered by flu can include inflammation of the heart (myocarditis), brain (encephalitis) or muscle (myositis, rhabdomyolysis) tissues, and multi-organ failure (for example, respiratory and kidney failure). Flu virus infection of the respiratory tract can trigger an extreme inflammatory response in the body and can lead to sepsis, the body’s life-threatening response to infection."

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: falcon]
    #26842973 -

falcon said:
If the heathcare system in an area gets overwhelmed the death rate is likely to go up. One reason it's at the rate it is, is people are receiving supportive care.


Agreed and the healthcare system response is part of the disaster models but the initial assessment of the covid fatality rate at 3-5% was made before the ICUs got overwhelmed

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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