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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
addict

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 530
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Thank you Bush for fucking our economy
    #1441827 - 04/09/03 05:21 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

well, your(Bush) not going to lose any money so i'm sure you don't care

Story

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Confronting new fears of recession, the Federal Reserve is refining an emergency economic rescue plan that includes further interest rate cuts and billions of dollars in extra cash for the banking system.

The Fed's effort would be aimed at pulling the country out of a downturn that has seen 465,000 jobs evaporate in the past two months, raising fears among economists that the weak recovery from the 2001 recession is in danger of stalling out altogether.

"Clearly, the Fed is in uncharted territory," economist David Jones said. "I think they will try some experimental moves."

Comments by Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan and other Fed officials indicated that the central bank is expected to move beyond its traditional buying and selling of short-term Treasury securities held by banks to the direct purchase of longer-term securities in an effort to influence long-term interest rates.

Also, Fed officials have indicated that they are prepared -- in the event of an unexpected shock to the system -- to lend massive amounts of money directly to commercial banks to make sure that financial markets do not freeze up.

And as a third policy option, Fed officials have indicated that they would explicitly state that if the federal funds rate is moved below its current 41-year low of 1.25 percent, it is likely to stay at the lower level as long as needed to get the economy on its feet -- which would help ease investors' worries about a sudden jump in interest rates down the road. The federal funds rate is the interest that banks charge for overnight loans.

The fact that Fed officials have been so open in discussing these options underscores the need the central bank sees to restore investor confidence that has been shaken by the fact that the Fed's aggressive two-year campaign to cut short-term rates has yet to produce a sustainable economic recovery.



Cali lays off 25,000 teachers


By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles
06 April 2003

California may fancy itself as the fifth largest economy in the world, but when it comes to funding its school system it is a calamity.

Across the state, 25,000 primary and secondary school teachers – 20 per cent of the total – have just been notified that they will be out of work from September.

In each of the state's 1,000-odd school districts, administrators are contemplating, reluctantly, the wholesale dismemberment of programmes, from music to art to PE, as well as the dismissal of nurses, librarians and cleaners.

Class sizes, which were successfully reduced in the go-go 1990s to as low as 20 to 1 in the primary grades, look certain to expand again, with some scenarios suggesting 40 or 50 students per teacher in certain classes.

The reason for this is simple: the state is broke. Because of the depressed economy, the bursting of the dot-com bubble and a tax code that makes state revenues excessively reliant on personal incomes rather than property values or corporate profits, California is facing a $35bn (?22bn) budget shortfall this year. Education accounts for roughly half of state spending, so schools are where the pain is being felt first.

It would not be so calamitous if Californian schools were not woefully underfunded already, ranking 41st in spending per pupil out of the 50 states. New York state, for example, spends $4,000 more per child per year. There is simply no fat to cut, largely because of a statewide tax revolt in the 1970s that capped spending for social services, sabotaging America's former leading school system.

"Let's cut the rhetoric of 'Leave No Child Behind' [President Bush's campaign slogan on education] and 'fess up to the reality that all children will be left behind," said John Deasy, superintendent of the relatively successful Santa Monica-Malibu school district in southern California, which now faces the loss of more than 200 teachers.

States across the country are suffering their worst budget crisis for half a century, and few are receiving help from the federal government, which is pouring funds instead into counter-terrorism, the military and tax cuts for the wealthy. Anti-war activists like to call the education crisis in California an instance of "domestic collateral damage", holding the White House at least indirectly responsible.

But California's own political leadership is also to blame. Governor Gray Davis, a Democrat, is infuriating even his own party by refusing to contemplate substantial tax increases and handing out favours to campaign contributors, notably the prison guards' union. While the schools sink into oblivion, Governor Davis is insisting on building a new death row unit at San Quentin prison. The price tag: $220m.


--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


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Anonymous

Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1441836 - 04/09/03 05:25 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Pretty strong subject words you got there. Tell us how You would improve the state of the economy. Please be specific in every aspect. Thanks.


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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
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Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 530
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: TackleBerry]
    #1441871 - 04/09/03 05:44 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I don't have time to appease you, read this to get your brain juices flowing


Ecological economics may be new to you, but its nesscery for humans to survive
on a large scal.e. The united state by large Refuses to adapt to this form of economics that is obviously of the utmost importance to anyone who's read up on it
http://www.ecologicaleconomics.org/


http://home.vicnet.net.au/~dmcm
Socialism in a nutshell

In a socialist society the means of production [1] are owned by the workers rather than by a rich minority of capitalists or functionaries. Such a system of ownership is both collective and individual in nature.

It is collective because society can control production unlike the economic anarchy of capitalism and because production is for the common good rather than for individual profit.

At the same time it is individual because workers are no longer a 'collective' mob of alienated non-owners employed by a minority of owners. Work becomes a free and self-affirming activity for each worker and they receive the full fruits of their labor. The capitalists and their servants no longer control production nor grow rich from other's toil. Everybody is an owner. Socialism is genuine free enterprise.

The personally empowering and cooperative nature of socialist ownership underpins similar changes in other aspects of life. Socialism means far healthier individuals and human relationships. It means full participation by each individual in the intellectual, cultural and political life of society.

Socialism requires a revolution with three main stages: firstly the emergence of a workers' movement committed to socialist revolution, secondly the achievement of political power and the expropriation of the capitalists and thirdly a period during which workers learn how to be owners and rulers and cast off the psychological and ideological dross of the past.

Socialism will not be an utopia simply created in people's minds. It will be the product of economic and social development. In developed countries it is now possible for everyone to live a reasonably affluent life and be free of long hours of routine toil. This creates a better basis for cooperation and mutual regard. Historically, where equality would have meant shared poverty, it was inevitable that a minority would plunder, enslave and exploit the majority. At the same time rank and file workers are progressively acquiring through their experiences, the abilities to do without an elite. Their general level of education and training has advanced significantly over the last couple of generations. The work they do, while still totally oppressive, has an increasingly mental and conceptual content. And they now have extensive access to cultural and intellectual resources and the diverse experiences of living in a modern society. So while socialism was impossible in the past, these emerging conditions make it inevitable in the future.

Footnote [1]. The means of production comprise everything, except labor, that is used in production, namely, factories, plant, equipment, offices, shops, raw materials, fuel and components.


We need a new society!
Work is generally boring, unfulfilling and oppressive.
Society is grossly unequal. Some people are super rich and others super poor. Many have no job, no education and no skills.
Many of us live in a personal hell - mental illness, drug addiction, the experience of violence and sexual abuse.
We all to varying degrees feel isolated and alienated from the society we live in.
What lies behind these lousy conditions? The basic problem is that a minority monopolize society's economic resources and force most us to work for them. This means they get to cream off a lion's share of the output we produce and to control our working lives. This is the basis for a society of oppressed and crippled individuals. It is usually called capitalism.

It is a society where you are rewarded for being a bastard and penalized for doing the right thing. It is a society where most of us are just menials performing crappy work under the command of brown noses. And when they no longer want us we are discarded like a piece of rubbish.

Because work is self-destroying or self-limiting rather than self-affirming, it poisons every aspect of our life. Our spirits are ground down, our minds cramped and our feelings desensitized to the needs of others.

In this dog-eat-dog world, salt is thrown onto every wound. Fears and uncertainties are reinforced, and weaknesses magnified. If you refuse to fit in you are made an outcast. If you are a round peg you are jammed into a square hole. And poverty is the lot of the low paid, the discards on the job scrap heap and those who just can't function any more.

The only solution is a society based on equality and cooperation. This requires a new social system in which we collectively own the means of production and take control of our own working lives. We will no longer be bossed about. We will transform work so that everyone gets to do the interesting and challenging tasks and speed up the automation of the more routine ones. We will ensure each worker the right to a diverse career path that meets their needs and we establish a culture of life-long development. We will also eliminate the unemployment scrap heap and let people reduce their working hours. Such a new society is often called socialism.

In such a society we will not only become more human, but also more productive, because work will be something we want to do and we will make more effective use of our creative powers.

Of course the elite tells us that this is impossible. They tell us that socialism is against human nature and that countries like the Soviet Union and China prove that it won't work. Socialism means police states and clapped out economies.

Is it really against human nature to cooperate for mutual benefit? As for the failure of socialism in places like the Soviet Union and China, if it could thrive in such backward and feudal countries, it wouldn't be worth having. Even capitalism has had a lot of trouble developing in places like these, going by the experience of most other Third World countries.

While the struggle for radical change in developed countries such as ours will never be a tea party, the conditions are there for it to happen. To begin with, socialism in a developed economy would mean shared prosperity rather than futile attempts to share poverty. And over time we are becoming increasingly better equipped to successfully run things without masters. We are becoming better educated. We have the experience of modern life. And even our crappy jobs require most of us to use our brains more than workers of past generations.

Is socialism on the agenda yet? No, not yet, but it is time for some of us to start talking about it.





--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


Edited by RadioActiveSlug (04/09/03 05:49 AM)


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1441878 - 04/09/03 05:50 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah!

The wealth is too concentrated, and it has moved out of the public's hands. More and more every day now that the world system don't have the Commie counterbalance.

It's unbound capitalism, and it doesn't give a fuck anymore.

Bulls on parade!


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


Edited by carbonhoots (04/09/03 05:54 AM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: TackleBerry]
    #1441898 - 04/09/03 05:56 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Pretty strong subject words you got there. Tell us how You would improve the state of the economy. Please be specific in every aspect. Thanks.



Fewer wars, fewer tax cuts for the rich. Bush spends and spends without thinking about where the money's gonna come from.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1441901 - 04/09/03 05:57 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I don't have time to appease you, read this to get your brain juices flowing




Oh, thats too bad. I was interested in hearing your solution not somebody elses. Thanks for the articles though!


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Anonymous

Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: silversoul7]
    #1441908 - 04/09/03 05:59 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I agree silversoul.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: TackleBerry]
    #1441910 - 04/09/03 06:00 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

We all know what your up to, Tackleberry.


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
addict

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 530
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: TackleBerry]
    #1441911 - 04/09/03 06:00 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

sombody elses? your the one who's blindly support "somebody else"




--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


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Anonymous

Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1441919 - 04/09/03 06:04 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

We all know what your up to, Tackleberry.




And that is?


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OfflineShrewDigsby
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Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 3,106
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Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: TackleBerry]
    #1442206 - 04/09/03 10:01 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

if you're going to lay blame or fault for our current economic stability then you're pointing the finger at the wrong person. The finger would be directly pointed at Clinton. Go major in economics or finance and you'll realize this. Attempt to know what you're talkin about before you make dumb ass claims.

You are 100% wrong in connecting Bush to our economy. This isn't biased gibberish, it's the absolute truth. You're believing rhetoric that has absolutely no foundation in truth, economics, or mathematics.


--------------------
Marijuana is a horticultural plant.  Hemp is an industrial weed.  I believe they were both provided to us by GOD to use and enjoy.


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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
addict

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 530
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: ShrewDigsby]
    #1442229 - 04/09/03 10:18 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

and your sources are?......

Quote:

This isn't biased gibberish, it's the absolute truth. You're believing rhetoric that has absolutely no foundation in truth, economics, or mathematics. 




math you say?  here's an equasion for you:

Let m = money

Spending m on war = Less m for everything else

Less m for everything else + tax cuts = deficit.



you know your right, its all rhedoric,  and ABC is certainly known for their anti-bush stance  :smirk:

ABC news

Billions For War Effort Add to Economic Strain of Deficits, Tax Cuts
The White House says it will submit a supplemental budget request to Congress to help pay for the cost of war but it has given no timetable for that. Sources say the White House could seek as little as $40 billion or as much as $100 billion.
The cost of the build-up to war has already been substantial. Getting the military's high-tech arsenal half way around the world — along with 250,000 troops — has been a roughly $13 billion undertaking. And the monthly cost of maintaining this force is expected to be around $9 billion.

"A lot of the costs are very mundane, like bringing in fuel, bringing in food, building a laundry facility for troops in the region, paying for combat pay for military personnel, activating the reserves," says Steve Kosiak, a military analyst for the Washington, D.C-based think tank Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessment.

Now that the fighting has begun, the bill will rise some more. The military's plan to "shock and awe" the Iraqis requires a heavy expenditure of munitions.

According to retired U.S. Air Force General Richard Hawley, "All told you're going to find somewhere between 500 and 800 individual missions flown per day. And those 500 to 800 attack sorties, weapons-delivering sorties, will put somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 weapons on target each day."

Everything that will be used in this war has been bought and paid for already, from the $55 bullets and million-dollar cruise missiles to the $4 billion aircraft carriers and the $50 million jets on board.

What taxpayers may not realize is that many things will have to be paid for again.

"One of the costs of the war will be replacing equipment we lose in combat or in accidents and also munitions that we expend during the war," says Kosiak.

Real Cost May Be In Iraq Occupation

How expensive the fighting part of the war is depends on the intensity of battle and how long it lasts. The estimates range from $18 billion for a one-month war to $85 billion for a six-month war. Sound expensive? It's probably the cheap part.

"What makes this war potentially expensive is the number of years we might be in occupation," says Laurence Meyer, an economist and former Federal Reserve Board governor now with the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C.

Securing the peace in Iraq is expected to cost far more than waging the war. It's a process likely to require thousands of American troops and up to a decade of reconstruction and humanitarian aid.

Already the Pentagon has authorized $900-million for post-war rebuilding in Iraq, including the rebuilding of roads and bridges, the building of schools, hospitals and homes, and the repairing of the electrical grid and other utilities.

"We're talking about as much as $50 billion a year for 10 years," adds Meyer. "Well, you can see that gets very expensive and dwarfs dramatically the cost of the combat phase."

Another expense that could dwarf the cost of combat is the fallout from any terrorist reprisals in the United States. The cost of defending the homefront could be significant, especially for cities and states already struggling with big budget deficits.

"I think a big difference between this war and the Gulf War of 1991 is that we do have to think about the consequences here at home," says Kosiak.

New York City estimates the cost of additional security to protect its bridges, ports, subways and key landmarks at $5 million a week. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has met with President Bush to secure Washington's help in paying this bill. The president promised to help, but no dollar commitment was made.

Burden for Struggling Economy

The consequences for the broader economy have been dramatic — gas prices up sharply, stock prices down, consumers and businesses in a state of paralysis.

"The build up to war has certainly added uncertainties to an already struggling economy," says Robert Hormats, vice chairman of Goldman Sachs International.

Stock prices have improved in the past week but remain vulnerable. Investors seem to be betting on a best-case outcome to this war and that's a risky bet.

The war in Iraq and the tighter homeland security are also adding to a $250 billion deficit. And this time there are no allies promising to foot part of the bill. Some wonder if the nation can afford this war … and everything else on the president's agenda.

Says Hormats: "We can afford a war, we can afford domestic programs and we can afford tax cuts. The problem is we probably can't afford all of them at once."
 


--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


Edited by RadioActiveSlug (04/09/03 10:31 AM)


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OfflineShrewDigsby
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Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 3,106
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Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1442270 - 04/09/03 10:41 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Everything you've cited has nothing to do w/ our current economy. They will effect our future economy based on the current economy that was created by Clinton's administration.

If you're upset about the current economy then you're pointing the finger at the wrong president.


--------------------
Marijuana is a horticultural plant.  Hemp is an industrial weed.  I believe they were both provided to us by GOD to use and enjoy.


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Anonymous

Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: ShrewDigsby]
    #1442553 - 04/09/03 12:25 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

.


Edited by Anonymous (04/09/03 12:27 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1442740 - 04/09/03 01:25 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

socialism blows.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1442754 - 04/09/03 01:28 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Has it ever occured to you that the actions of The Fed has more to do with our current economic woes than either Bush or Klinton?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: ]
    #1442813 - 04/09/03 01:37 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

socialism blows.



Yep. It also fails pretty much every time it is implemented.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
addict

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 530
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: z@z.com]
    #1443260 - 04/09/03 03:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The New Deal was a failure?


--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1443269 - 04/09/03 03:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

In the long run I would say yes it is.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
addict

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 530
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Thank you Bush for fucking our economy [Re: z@z.com]
    #1443286 - 04/09/03 03:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

well every form of goverment is a failure in the long run....


--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


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