 spoken like a true newb. Not sure why pointing out that there are different levels to the experience is something that perturbs folks. And while strong level 4s are obviously overwhelming & profound, and ego dissolving....they aren't the same as the classic ego death. Which has been clearly defined for a long time. Only folks here making up definitions are those that haven't hit that point yet, but think they did. This isn't a cock comparing contest though.....spreading knowledge.
It's amusing that you find this offensive. Only reason they you do, is because you seem to have a true need to have experienced ego death. For what purpose other than to bolster your ego, who knows. But if you take a step back & read what we are saying objectively, you'll see that we're not knocking the profundity of your experience. Experiencing being a molecule is a mind blowing & profound experience. Of course it counts. All we're saying is the fact that you had self-awareness, means that there was an "I" there. Aka not true ego death. But, from my perspective & that, I'd wager, of others here, that is frankly a more overall useful experience than wiping yourself away entirely.
"Any jnani yogi worth his salt will tell you self realization is pure bliss."
A lot of things are blissful. Heroin is blissful, and that's the opposite of self-realization...that's an illusion, an escape from & destruction of one's self. I've had many self-realizations, and trust me...not all were blissful. There's a lot that haven't been. The bliss comes if & when I address those things in a healthy manner & overcome them. Which takes time.
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The parts you remember & attempt to describe are the journey there, and the journey back. What happens in between is a mystery.
That's easy, that is dose related. More DMT will get you there, every time."
You've obviously misunderstood what I was saying there. It has nothing to do with the dose, or even the substance. For ego death, what you can kind of recall is the experience of coming up & breaking apart, until there is no you. Then the process of coming back....regaining awareness, slowly coming back together. The actual point where the ego is dead is a mystery because there is no you left to form a memory. So the memories are of coming up & coming back, not of the portion where your ego was "dead".
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Even breaking through on DMT. Haven't done so in years, and while I feel the time has come to re-enter that space, I'm definitely not in a rush.
If you truly thought less was more, why break through on DMT at all?"
Because that's a whole other ballgame. That's not about self-realization & growth. That's about blasting into hyperspace which is a fascinating experience, and one that I desire from time to time.
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Certainly very misguided...
Sure sure, you're old, you're one up. "
And again, you misunderstand. I was speaking of myself at that time, and I was most certainly very misguided, and wound up very lost. And I'm a whole hell of a lot more than "one up" on the 20-something version of myself. As you will be on the current version of yourself in time. And as I will be on the current version of myself in time.
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Once you learn to work with the experience it gets a lot easier. And eating 10 strips, or handfuls of dried shrooms isn't learning to work with the experience. It's just taking a ton of drugs. Been there, done that many, many times....with nothing to show for it.
Maybe what you have to show for it is your ability to get more out of less now, for having been there before. "
That's an interesting thought, but I don't think that's the case. Though maybe it does play a role. I certainly flow through it easier having gone so deep in the past. But the reasons I get more out of the experiences now is because I treat in a very different manner than I did when I was younger. Even though I was trying to be spiritual & grow as an individual when I was younger, I didn't put the same kind of effort into it. And didn't really have much of an intention or plan on what I was going to address. Nor did I come up with, or follow through consistently on any plans to address the things that came up.
I mean having the experience is something, so there's that. But what I didn't get from them....and what I mean by having anything to show for them is personal growth. The kind that I get now from a whole lot less.
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As fascinating as shattering one's self, and the crazy visuals, etc are, that strong of an experience is just not that conducive to really working through one's shit.
Sure they are. The psilocybin and quit smoking research indicates that it was only, or at least more, effective if it was accompanied by a "full mystical experience." I suppose you can argue about whether a full mystical experience is ego death or not, but it sure as hell isn't microdosing. "
A full mystical experience most certainly doesn't mean ego death. A mystical experience is just that; mystical. Doesn't have to be an overwhelming experience. Just be tapped into that type of energy & thinking. Don't even need drugs for that either, though they certainly are a more dramatic & consistent method for sure. I don't personally microdose. My idea of an moderate dose is ~200mics of LSD, sometimes a bit less a few times of year. Strong, fully psychedelic, but leaves me with a clarity & an "I" to observe & learn.
There's things to learn about yourself via a complete shattering.....but that's not quite the same thing as working through your shit. Again, you have to be present to do that. If you're no longer present, than something else entirely is happening. You need to be able to see yourself, your life, and how the way you think, feel, and go about your life is affecting the outcomes & relationships to work through unraveling those threads. Can't do that if you don't even know you're human, let alone remember what life is.
What happened with ego-death & ego-dissolving experiences previously for me was that yeah, I felt reborn. Had a blank slate. But the thing is....it's not permanent. Never will be. Life is constantly moving, evolving. I may have temporarily destroyed my ego, but that doesn't mean I wiped out my personality, my traits..good or bad. Just temporarily during the peak of my experience. It all comes back. And I hadn't worked through my shit...just checked out for a bit. So as time would pass, all that shit would come back & leave me at square one. It still comes back. But now I work through myself with each experience, so when life inevitably drags me back to reality & gums up the works, I can maintain that perspective for longer, and maintain at least a little bit of it for even longer. But this is why I returned to psychedelics, and have my periodic sessions; to regain that connection within, and continue to evolve in positive ways vs reverting back to negative thought patterns & habits.
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Less is more, intent is important, set & setting are key.
That's at least half bullshit. FWIW, I never go in with intention, and it (or my true self or Shiva) almost always knows what I need. Dzogchen is pretty big on not having intention either if you want to experience your "primordial state" and "self arising wisdom." "
That comment reeks of inexperience. Set & setting is equally important to....if not even more than the dose itself when it comes to the overall experience. This is psychedelia 101... and intent is very important. I never used intent, then I kinda half-assed an intent, and oscillated for years in this manner. Never got anything lasting out of those experiences. Just having had the experience itself. Always went back to my old self though. A pendulum really, going from one extreme to the other. Of course back then you couldn't tell me that I wasn't getting anything from the experiences. I would argue that until everyone turned blue. But hindsight is 20/20. The testament to how something is working is something that happens over a period of months or a couple years, but down the road. Talk to me in 10 years, and we'll see if these things you've gleaned have had any real lasting impact. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Mine didn't. I had to relearn, and then learn how to utilize that in my daily life. Which took a while, and is always an ongoing process.
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For youngsters & newbs among us, you're obviously not at that point, and are gonna keep chasing it. If & when it happens isn't something you can will, and it's not necessarily dose dependent either.
I wouldn't go so far as to say "your definition" of ego death is absolutely dose depended, but it's damn close for most people."
Nah, sometimes you're just due. And preparations can make it a lot more likely. It's possible to take a large dose of psychedelics & not get it. And it's equally possible to take a more moderate dose of psychedelics & get it.
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