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Darkenshroom
PsychedelicExplorationist


Registered: 02/24/06
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Inability to allow Ego Death
#5627931 - 05/14/06 10:30 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Frustrating this is. I have come so close to Ego Death so many times...But each and every time some part of me refuses to allow "self" to be let go of. Friday I ate 6 grams of some very potent cubes grown here at home on hpoo. I went through "death throes" but my Ego would not let go. If anyone had come across me they may have believed I was dying lol, arched back, gagging, my body was trying to convince me I had died so I would let go, but my stubborn "self" would not.
When I first started hallucenogenics, I placed several safeguards on myself. I have a firmly ingrained awareness that "I" am tripping and that "I" will come down and that "I" am always ok. This has stopped me from reaching Ego Death many times. But has also made it so I have never had a bad trip. the safeguards allow me to talk myself back down to comfort easily. Once things get a bit overwhelming these safeguards kick in and my awareness of the fact this isn't reality but instead a trip brings me back down to even keel.
What I seek is suggestions, meditations, or ideas that may aid in me "letting go". Please don't make your suggestion Eat More. I have eaten as many of 10 grams of potent cubes in lemon juice, and though I had an amazing and wonderful heavy lvl 4, I never lost touch with "self". Lucy and I have a different relationshipo, since she was the one who aided me in building the safeguards she and I don't even try to go there, in fact I am very much more aware of "self" even on extreme doses of LSD (20 hits+, highest is circa 50k mics during a raw crystal experience).
I have reached Ego Death I believe once, but it was years ago, and my first experience with Peyote, the saddest part is I was young and not yet ready for a spiritual hallucenogenic lifestyle and thus did not savor or attempt to assimilate anything from that night, in fact I felt kind of "jipped" that I had a blank spot in my memory near the peak. So I cannot even vouch that I did indeed experience ego death that night.
Ideas? Comments? Suggestions?
Darken *smiles*
-------------------- ~The first and most important step in cultivation of the wonderful mushroom, is the cultivation of patience for without it you doom yourself to failure~
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Penguarky Tunguin
f n o r d

Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 17,192
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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Darkenshroom]
#5628206 - 05/14/06 11:56 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Read The Psychedelic Experience
by Tim Leary.
It's all about ego death. Should help a lot. Lots of good tips, suggestions and practices.
-------------------- Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.
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psilocy
esoterrorist

Registered: 02/27/06
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im in the same boat "its only a drug, ill be normal again in a short time, panic begats panic, etc." are rooted at the center of my psychedeilc experience, and the first time i dosed shrooms was my only ego death. The only fundamental difference i can sort out with that trip thats been lacking in the majority of others was that i felt Completely comfortable with my surroundings and counterpart, and at ease enough for the loss to come on. Im not apprehensive about how ill be, but im pretty concerned for the people that im around, being that i know very few people that can handle a larger dose aptly, i think this general concern for the people that im around keeps me in a fairly cautious state of mind, even when on larger doses. if this sounds familiar then i guess try looking into finding a sitter and brush up on your resignation meditation skills or something like that. Or try to recreate that peyote trip's atmosphere as best you can.
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IWalkedOnTheMoon
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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: psilocy]
#5629314 - 05/14/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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same thing happens to me except ego death usually grabs me by the balls and takes me anyway. i tend to fight it off and feel like ass afterwards... oh well
-------------------- Mama Mama many worlds i've grown since i first left home
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thelorax121
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You arent ready yet then, let your body and the mushrooms guide you to where you need to go.
-------------------- Greens for all, and to all a good greens!
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AngeloWish
Sr. Mydriasis

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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: thelorax121]
#5630425 - 05/14/06 10:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Tripping is not about ego death. If you have it it might me amazing / terrifying but if not, the trip can be as meaningful in other aspectes. Maybe you will experience it when you stop looking for the experience itself.
-------------------- +'this' reality is the one i like the most+
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Darkenshroom
PsychedelicExplorationist


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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death *DELETED* [Re: AngeloWish]
#5630782 - 05/14/06 11:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Post deleted by DarkenshroomReason for deletion: Too personal
-------------------- ~The first and most important step in cultivation of the wonderful mushroom, is the cultivation of patience for without it you doom yourself to failure~
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Birds_Can_Swim
Fish Can Fly

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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Darkenshroom]
#5630886 - 05/15/06 12:28 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Try looking into a mirror
It sounds stupid, but try
I always think I'm about to let go when I simply can't bear to look anymore
-------------------- There is no valid reason why you should be reading this
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Ashland
Space Cowboy

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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Darkenshroom]
#5630902 - 05/15/06 12:33 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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The first (and most pure) time I ever experienced ego death was when it was entirely unexpected, with my mind not even aware of a concept such as ego death.
Ever since then, whenever I feel it coming on, I sort of tell myself "oh, here we go" and it rarely takes hold. Usually I just get very intraspective (which is more pleasant in social situations) but it is difficult to really reach ego death like I had the first time.
My suggestion to you, and what has worked for me is to try and forget about ego death before you begin tripping - at least forget that it even concerns you. What you must try and do is become entirely passive towards the effects of the mushrooms, get the mindset going that you are unaware of what is going to await you, and that you're strapping yourself in for a roller coaster ride, so to speak. In other words, try not to fight back and just let it take its course. Telling yourself you're on a drug and that it will end soon keeps you in the wrong state of mind for a truly spiritual ego death experience. Try some meditation to clear your mind before you ingest, and maybe include a lot of stimuli (such as music, toys, lights, plan a walk, etc.) so that your mind does not dwell on the effects of the mushrooms and its inability to control what is going on.
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krin
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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Ashland]
#5631471 - 05/15/06 06:22 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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your assumption of certain completely unknown informations is causing a "mental barrier" to be formed.
" my awareness of the fact this isn't reality "
Bullshit, we dont know shit whats going on. We have no fucking single goddamn clue what reality is,in any respect.
how do you know that tripping is just "some chemical effect" (whatever the fuck chemical effects really are,what a brain is,what energy is,etc...)
the onyl thing you ever really know,is how you feel,so instead of encouraging this ignorant,falsly assumed mental jargon,just feel your consciousness,every part of it,even the part that is some jibbering idiot voice telling you that its SYMBOL X EXPERIENCE or whatnot You want to experience "ego loss" you want an intense connective experience your going to have to re-evalute what your primitive symbolic understanding of the universe is. Because your understanding of the situation is not correct when you think "im just tripping" because i gaurantee you,that you,and I,truly have no clue what trippign is,what thought is,where it originates,what this whole mystery is about
destroy the delusions which keep your consciousness and feelings from experiencing the wellspring of experiences which are "floating" about out/in there
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Dr_Thunda
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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: krin]
#5632928 - 05/15/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've had ego loss experiences consistently on LSA (morning glory seeds). I dont think I've had it the same on mushrooms. On LSA, I can lay down and meditate and work my way to deconstructing reality. Much less control (doing the same types of meditations) on shrooms.
Edited by Dr_Thunda (05/15/06 02:39 PM)
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MorphMan
δSλ


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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Dr_Thunda]
#5633012 - 05/15/06 02:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I could honestly say I have experienced ego death all but one time. I always just let my mind wander and eventually I get caught in weird thought loops and it takes me away. I guess it really is impossible to instruct how to do it but just try to go in with an open mind and don't think about ego death. Just let your mind flow, let go, and it's only a matter of time. Don't think about it, it'll happen inevitably.
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AngeloWish
Sr. Mydriasis

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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: MorphMan]
#5636644 - 05/16/06 08:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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If your ego is fighting is maybe because you are not ready to let go and die to it. Like many have said, it might happend when you least "expect" it. Enjoy the fight and learn what you can about trips, death comes when it has to (even ego's).
And this is not holier than tou attitude, but i talk from what i've experienced... my ego deaths were amazing, one with acid the other with shrooms but i never thought i could when i was there, my ego did fight aswell but in some point of the journy i just realized i shouldn't resist to the inminent feeling of being part of all time and space. And IMHO one of the best parts of dying to your ego is when it is "reconstructed" and you feel like in total control of your faith and destiny. God i love that feeling.
Good luck in your search for the death -_- remember us all when you get there.
Peace!
-------------------- +'this' reality is the one i like the most+
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Darkenshroom]
#5636993 - 05/16/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ego, 'killing' ego..
..is that not like lifting yourself, straight of the ground?
"..awareness, can be without an ego.." -Unknown. :p
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-------------------- Disclaimer!?
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Darkenshroom
PsychedelicExplorationist


Registered: 02/24/06
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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Gomp]
#5637060 - 05/16/06 11:23 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ok I know that I said I was finished with this thread but I will give it a shot and reply to each person in turn, here we go....
McKennaDMT- I will indeed make it a point to buy that book, thank you so much for the suggestion.
Psilocy- It is not fear, nor is it that I continually tell myself it's only a trip, it's so deeply ingrained in my subconscious I don't have to consciously think about it a single time for my safeguards to take hold. They just do it. And I never panic on trips, even ones others would consider bad trips, each trip is a unique journey and some are more comfortable than others.
Iwalkedonthemoon- I wish that it would grab me by the proverbial balls (I'm a woman so I don't have any balls to grab hehe).
Thelorax121- You are the reason I almost left this thread, if you don't have anything better or more constructive to say than a one liner that is a judgment of another's' state of mind and spirit then please refrain from even wasting time.
Angelowish (first post)- As said in my second post, I do not only trip to find Ego Death, but Ego Death is a seriously spiritual part of tripping, one I would like to enjoy at some point.
Birds_Can_Swim- Interesting idea I think I may try it. I have a standing mirror that I can move near my tripping couch. Maybe near a heavy peak staring into my own eyes may cause me to lose myself. Thank you!
Ashland- your words are kind hearted and well meaning. I think some people are assuming I sit there and repeat a catechism over and over. No, this is wrong, long ago I learned to differentiate between time spent on psychedelics and time not on psychedelics. I don't have to say a single thing for my safety mechanisms to take hold. In fact I don't ever consciously think about it, but I know its there. I meditate for one hour prior to every trip, and always make certain my setting is prepared before hand. Set (mindset to be exact) and Setting are exceedingly important to me.
Krin- You sound like someone who has eaten a wee too much psychedelics, got lost in the thought processes brought about by them and began believing things such as non reality and non existence etc. I know of that school of psychedelic thought but I don't in any way shape or form agree with you. Mushrooms, LSD, DMT, Mescaline and other hallucinogens are definitely reactions with things in your brain. And to quote Coda whose signature I love, "I enjoy the taste of leaving reality, but I enjoy the taste of returning more" For it is when we touch back down that we are able to assimilate what we learned during a time in which the walls of our reality had been bent and or broken. In the case of your post, it is a "to each their own" kind of thing.
Dr_Thunda and Morphman- Thank you for posting, LSA and I are not the best of friends. I have yet to have an experience with raw LSA that wasn't characterized by an overabundance of nausea. As for letting go I spend all my time on Shroom trips letting my mind wander. Its just somewhere deep in the recesses of my mind that a part of me refuses to let go.
Angelowish (second post)- Thank you for your kind words, I have a distinct relationship with each of my hallucinogenic friends. I believe the primordial feeling brought about by mushrooms (in me at least) is the one that will open that door. I will indeed recall my friends here wen it happens once more. though I doubt I will run and tell everyone about it, I rarely post trip reports, only exceptionally odd ones, or exceptionally beautiful ones are worth putting to the keys for me.
Gomp- Interesting quote.
Darken *smiles*
-------------------- ~The first and most important step in cultivation of the wonderful mushroom, is the cultivation of patience for without it you doom yourself to failure~
Edited by Darkenshroom (05/16/06 11:25 AM)
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HyphalTryptamin
Stranger

Registered: 05/07/05
Posts: 390
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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Gomp]
#5637070 - 05/16/06 11:25 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think it'd be a good idea to sever connections with people who feature in your everyday life for a while.
Camp out in a forest somewhere, alone, and stay there for a few days, and do your best to read up on books like our amigo commended "the psychedelic experience".
It should be helpful to distract your attention from yourself and people around you.
Why should a higher dose not help?
I mean, people who do LSD thumbprints have their ego ripped away almost instantaneously, likewise for crystal DMT smokers.
If you have to, eat some MAOinhibitor beforehand, which should send you west!
And maybe give yourself some mental incentives to let go. Try a mantra like "IT is love", anything to woo you into it.
You should get it sooner rather than later. Most people who don't let go end up being quite traumatised, you must have a clean conscience or pure ego to come out of those mentally unscathed, just a bit disappointed maybe
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Darkenshroom
PsychedelicExplorationist


Registered: 02/24/06
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Loc: I don't exist on this pla...
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HyphalTryptamin- I think your idea of removing myself from my everyday world may indeed be a good idea, I think I will plan a heavy trip for the day before I head into Nationals, and do it alone in the woods. As for a higher dose, I have eaten up to 10 grams of mushrooms and a partial thumbprint of LSD, not at the same time of course, just listing my highest respective dosages.(50k mics of LSD and a two day trip, I experienced a profound and prolonged lvl 4, but again my realtionship with Lucy is unique in that she heightens my sense of self instead of stripping it) I should soon be getting my hands on some DMT, and will see how my experience therein is, I have done the Spirit Molecule before though in small doses. I am planning a Syrian Rue inhibited trip sometime in the near future. We shall see how that goes.
Thanks for the great post, Darken *smiles*
-------------------- ~The first and most important step in cultivation of the wonderful mushroom, is the cultivation of patience for without it you doom yourself to failure~
Edited by Darkenshroom (05/16/06 11:31 AM)
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HyphalTryptamin
Stranger

Registered: 05/07/05
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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Gomp]
#5637102 - 05/16/06 11:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've got the spirit molecule by rick strassman in PDF on my HD, so give us a shout if you want me to send it over.
Watch the crystal DMT, because beyond undergoing ego death, you might have an unwanted encounter with other forms of intelligence.
More in the PDF :P
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LOBO
Vagabond

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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Darkenshroom]
#5641577 - 05/17/06 11:29 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hi, Darken like some of the other members suggested let the shrooms guide you, do them always in a nature setting and with cool friends, if you try to force it wont happen. In my experience, lately I can most of the time reach ego loss even with out taking huge doses, some how I learned how to "let go". There is always a bit of fear of dying but needs to be done to reach the creator to go "back home". When I am there I don't want to come back, you can't stay to long either the light of god is to strong and you need a lot of energy to hold your self there, but is totally worth it, is the highlight of the experience. I will tell you what I have learned and what the shrooms told me, perhaps it will help you. 1) first to enter there world you need to become as a child, they hate big egos, if you are stubborn and bring your ego, you will end up having a bad trip. 2) some times they will show you things that are not pleasant but they need to be seen, these are things of our own negative self you have to look at them to understand your self, use detachment here and soon they will vanish. 3) To achieve ego death you need energy, the stages go like this. First I feel the energy moving thru my body some time I shake a lot (usually energy blockages need to be iron out), second emotional release, energy start to rise to the heart, I will cry a lot, not of sadness but the gates of my feelings open, I feel so much that I just cry. Once that gets clear out, energy keeps rising, to the third eye; here you will experience all the visions ranging from entities to simple fractals. If you still have energy left it will keep rising here you need to let go, you need to die understand that the fear come from the ego not you, call out in you mind for the creator, merge with him/her because he/she is you and you are him/her, you are finally home. You need energy for this I started to have better experiences when five years ago they told me (shrooms) that I need more energy, so I been studying taichi, pakua and chi-kung since then. I feel the difference, my friends need much more shrooms to see any thing and then they remember almost nothing, you see you need energy also to remember. (awareness) Shrooms told me in the beginning they give you like a free ride (if they like you) then you have to put some effort on your side. Doing psychedelics drain you of a lot of energy, so do them seldom and you will accomplish more, use them as a tool for self improvement not just for recreational use.(does not mean you can have fun under them the sprit of the shrooms love to play). I hope it helps you some how. Lobo
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Help on the Way
Slipknot420

Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 2,893
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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Darkenshroom]
#5641689 - 05/17/06 12:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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thats interesting that LSD helped you create a series of safegaurds that always gave you positive trips but doesnt allow you to attain ego loss
for me, LSD taught me to just let go when i started to freak out, because panic was always due to me resisting the experience...and this is also what has allowed me to reach ego loss
anyways, maybe you need to spend some serious time examining your ideas and fears about death. something deep inside you has seems to have some serious issues with this. An important part of this is developing faith....accepting that you can jump and a greater force is there to catch you... learning that you CAN surrender yourself to the universe and that everything is all ok
i can kinda understand, because i always panic and try to hold on to anything i can right before an ego loss... but the letting go that i learned early on with lsd has always helped be surrender myself to the experience
good luck on your journey!
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*Divine Moments of Truth* "Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon "Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead "Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Darkenshroom]
#5649384 - 05/19/06 08:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Just up the dosage - then you will have no option - Remember that some writers dont actually consider ego-loss to be of the value that Tim Leary did - Im quite sure Terence McKenna was one of them??
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Iamthewalrus
every evening Idied and everynight I wasreborn


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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Darkenshroom]
#5649648 - 05/19/06 10:32 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I haven't had it but I don't really want it at this point either...a lot of ppl consider egoloss to be a negative and scary experience
EDIT: since I haven't had egodeath I can't say this for sure but I would imagine that u would lose ability to benefit from the experience since I would imagine u aren't REALLY conscious...just running on autopilot...I could be wrong tho
Edited by Iamthewalrus (05/19/06 10:35 AM)
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Dr_Thunda
Stranger


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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Iamthewalrus]
#5649730 - 05/19/06 11:01 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've been reading up on admixtures a lot lately. It seems like when people dose a little Syrian Rue (1.5-3g) it isnt unusual to have death/dying experiences.
I differentiate this a little from the type of "ego death" that might refered to in mysticism, etc.
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Zen Peddler


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Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: Iamthewalrus]
#5651750 - 05/19/06 10:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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b
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Edited by Zen Peddler (02/02/07 02:47 AM)
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Anonymous
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HyphalTryptamin
Stranger

Registered: 05/07/05
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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: ]
#5652237 - 05/20/06 02:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah I mean you can read what Tim Leary says in the psychedelic experience online, and he makes it out that the run up to ego death for everyone is the same.
"You are now entering the 3rd Bardo", when really as alot of fellows here have said, they drift in and out, or their ego just flies off, without all the mega drama that Leary talks about.
Whats strange is that on high dose I.V. DMT it seems that you don't have the whole "reprogramming and choose your new personality" after ego death but instead get whisked off to galaxy 69 and meet the mercury ball transforming aliens :S
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LOBO
Vagabond

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I guess for every one is different, DMT sends me to galaxy 69 with out experiencing ego death, basically I perceive everything almost in my normal state of being. But when I experience ego death with shrooms, Lobo dies and My higher ”I” emerges, the one that” has been and always will be" I have experience this many times usually, like some posters said you just "go" I but in a few occasions I have experience the "ego death" at a slow pace going thru all the phases, where finally I had to make the conscience decision to let go and "die". All I can say is rough process, but the teaching you get out of it totally worth it. I feel the experience is like a practice run, for the day I leave this world for real. Hopefully the day it happens I won't be so unprepared. It is only a rough experience if we resist it.
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Anno [Re: LOBO]
#5652437 - 05/20/06 06:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Akamatsu
Seeker

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Re: Inability to allow Ego Death [Re: ]
#5652730 - 05/20/06 09:33 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ego death for me was the exact opposite of what I was expecting, and it's possible your expectations and safeguards are holding you back. Reading some Descartes may give you the inspiration you need. Worked for me, and I have a similar attitude towards tripping, but ultimately the way you experience reality is such a personal thing that you probably need to find your own muse.
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ultrafeel
fun-da-mental

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Ego death...not really possible? [Re: Akamatsu]
#5667457 - 05/24/06 01:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I too experience tremendous difficulty with facing ego-death.
Actually, the metaphysical horror of the impending total annihilation seems to near impossible to endure.
But this might have to do with the assertion of many 'gurus' who actually claim that there never really was an ego. It is supposed to be nothing else than a 'cleverly thought up' illusion.
After englightenment this is suddenly crystal-clear (for nobody...)
So an illusion cannot really die - as it never really was alive in the first place!
This is called advaita (non-duality) I have collected some of the best works here: www.ultrafeel.tv/advaita.htm
What I especially experience very often is that I basically turn into 'yin and yang' and 'our' problem is: How can I life with myself?! (I = ying) (Myself = yang)
This appears to be something like an 'inverse ego-death... It feels that after the yin-yang-fusion there also won't be anything anymore, hell, the whole universe, every plant, tree, animal, human, me and you will then just...ah...melt into...
yeah, what will happen after this cosmic big-bang-fusion?
This is what I experienced in some journeys lately...I probably have some tendency for giantism...
thanks for listening! cheers from Switzerland
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.


Registered: 12/08/02
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Re: Ego death...not really possible? [Re: ultrafeel]
#5667754 - 05/24/06 06:48 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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no so much for the origional poster but just to get the idea out there. when it comes to psychedelics i am pro-life . i feel that psychedelics should be consumed for the sake of strengthening and wisening the ego. the ego is the part of self that makes life... life, otherwise we'd just be dead poeple or spiritual beings in some sort of perfect energy matrix or whatever. you'll have plenty of time to leave your ego behind, you WON'T have plenty of time to enjoy and have other poeple enjoy your current personality if you don't respect your personal individuality.
i don't feel like i'm finding the right words for what i'm trying to convey.
my spiritual role models are the mythic taoist immortal sages. they didn't get to the point of having universal power and immortality by... melting backwards into pre-life, they refined and distilled the elements of individual being to the point of merging with the infinite, not dissolving into it but creating containers for it so the infinite could come down and be equal to and the same as this limited exsistence.
i feel like i'm failing here. a quick summation would be i advocate not trying to get rid of your ego games, be always trying to take your ego games to the next level.
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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michael_lifshitz
Student


Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 436
Loc: here
Last seen: 16 years, 24 days
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Re: Ego death...not really possible? [Re: truekimbo2]
#5667783 - 05/24/06 07:21 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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It seems to me however, that experiencing ego death could be very valuable in our every day individual perception of the world. Not a state to live in permanently.
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