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Zimed
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Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries.
#5662131 - 05/22/06 10:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Okay, so I've read about this, but I still do not truly understand what it is or means? Does it mean you just become utterly, uniformly depressed? I do not gras this, and how can it be born, reborn, and die?
Thanks, just very curious about this issue.
II've heard this happens both with, LSD and shrooms.)
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Kaleidoscope
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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: Zimed]
#5662827 - 05/23/06 01:39 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Your ego is a part of your perception of your existence, it is solely a creation of your own mind to allow you to survive and function. It is your identity, your 'I.' When you lose it, that means your mind has cast off its tethers to it's perception of you existing as an individual. It can feel like complete nothingness or it can can feel like complete oneness with everything. either way, you lose your perception of your identity which in a sense is dying, Dying is the end of your existence as an individual. Somewhere in the process of dying, you also lose this sense of self-identification, whether you think you come back or not and are 'reborn' in some form is up to you to figure out. As pertains to psychedelics and the experience, you are 'reborn' in that you come out of this state of selflessness as your ego starts to reassert itself with new found knowlege gained from the experience which you must now integrate into your life. I hope maybe this clarifies things for you a little. Ego death can be the most glorious and/or most horrible experience of one's life depending on how you enter it.
The basics of it is that you exist as you most of the time. during ego death, you exist without yourself which is an abnormal state of mind. A lot of people take something away from this limited bit of time that affects the rest of their lives.
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Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.
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Zimed
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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: Kaleidoscope]
#5663974 - 05/23/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks for explaining this, however, now I feel more confused than ever. Are you telling me, my reality, my personality, my life, my outlook can COMPLETELY change an dhave no resemblance to what it was before, after you have done LSD/Shrooms? That seems like a pretty big sacrifice...but why do people want that sacrifice performed? I thought LSD/Shrooms, were just a way to become one with nature/something, and become more creative, and to experience hallucinations. Not to lose your whole SOUL, and get a new one. These consequences, could literally be devestating to a human being. How, and why do people wan tthis? What is going on during this time your tripping, and being 'reborn' happens, or feels like? Is it painful. I am not asking these because I am planning on tripping anytime, at least in the near future, but rather, to further my knowledge and understanding with such powerful drugs. How cna a drug affect you so much, as to completely alter who YOU ARE? It seems illogical. Does this happen to everyone when they are tripping? How do people go and play video games, watch tv, listen to music, when all this stuff is going on to them, I just don't get it?
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Trippy_Search
I'm trippin' man

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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: Zimed]
#5664040 - 05/23/06 11:58 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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i never had ego death but the closest i got to it was while i was trippin i was thinkin of my life and what i do wrong and stuff and i started cryin then i would laugh i didnt know what emotion to use i kept goin from cryin to laughin it was a good time
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mecreateme
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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: Zimed]
#5664050 - 05/23/06 11:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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What it reveals to you is that we are all blank slates. It doesn't so much as take anything away, like your personality, as it shows you how your personality is constructed. It can seem like a big, stupid game.
You have many preconcieved notions as do many who are walking asleep.
For some the experience is purely of enhanced reality, and that is what it does to an extent.
Quote:
as to completely alter who YOU ARE?
Who are you? Can you begin to even answer that question. Are you the societal you? Are you the name on this post? Are you all at once? You ask questions that have no real basis anywhere.
-------------------- No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT. You are everything's way of feeling itself. Happy Schwag, everygodly!
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stemmer
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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: Zimed]
#5664170 - 05/23/06 12:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You never can aquire a new soul, whatever that means. Even low-med level trips are often not devestating to a human being. They are still a microcosm of the following, rebirth
Rebirth is painful. Once you come out of the vulva again (so to speak) intact, and feel like you are no longer picking up the pieces(your sense of self/ego/and how you relate to the world), chances are your brain will never be the same again. You wont be able to be the same again. You have reconstituted.
There is one way to actually be reborn in a very literal way. Take enough where you think you will most certainly die during the peak(or atleast permanent death of your sense of self). When you come out of that stage you will likely be picking up the pieces for a good while, maybe even days. The love you feel for being alive and human with all sorts of new insights(even if those insights have only to do with brain functions), is untouched by any other type of experience. I have only been "reborn" using ayahuasca(im still learning from that stuff without taking any for years). Only high high doses of mushrooms or lsd even come close. So the more common doses are not going to last as long, be as "life changing", or be as painful even at a high dose. Reconstitution does not have to be all too complex. So you might not feel anything has changed much at all, even if you come back from that place with some really interesting stuff to think about.
None of these drugs can steal your soul.
its metaprogramming, or metaprogramming is a perfect metaphor for the experience and outcome of this process
Metaprogramming is the writing of programs that write or manipulate other programs (or themselves) as their data or that do part of the work that is otherwise done at compile time during runtime . In many cases, this allows programmers to get more done in the same amount of time as they would take to write all the code manually.
The language in which the metaprogram is written is called the metalanguage. The language of the programs that are manipulated is called the object-language. The capacity of a programming language to be its own meta-language is called reflexivity.
Edited by stemmer (05/23/06 12:24 PM)
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Help on the Way
Slipknot420

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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: Zimed]
#5664255 - 05/23/06 12:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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kaleidoscope did a good job explaining it
you dont lose your soul.....you realize your soul is made up of the same stuff everybody elses is, and the same stuff that every animal or plant or atom is...the illusions that create "You" as something apart from the rest of the world dissolve, and "you" unite back into the entire universe forever
eventually the the illusions come back...start creating a new self again, but after remembering how illusionary the "self" is...life is never really the same...and a lot of people tend to change the way they live after reexperiencing the oneness that connects everyone and everything
most trips dont lead to complete ego loss though, usually its a combination of high doses, set/setting, and mindset that causes this to happen... so people playing video games arent experiencing total ego loss, they are just tripping and having fun...generally people are just laying down when ego loss happens to them
lots of people have tripped plenty of times without ever experiencing total ego loss. The reason people want it is because it is a reminder of something important that we have all forgotten, and a glimpse into something huge, amazing, and beyond words
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*Divine Moments of Truth* "Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon "Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead "Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter
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TappyT
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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: Zimed]
#5664284 - 05/23/06 12:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have a question that maybe you guys can answer...fortunate this thread came up because i was going to create one with the same subject:
Can a "very mild" form of ego loss happen on high doses of marijuana? Oftentimes when i smoke a lot of pot, i lie down on my bed and ponder my existence and why i do the things i do. Every time, i come to a realization of just how meaningless "my" existence is in the grand scheme of things. For example, once after smoking a ton i though about my car. It's got a few modifications to make it "cooler" like a high-quality stereo, etc. I then came to a realization of just how petty that is....that all these people blast music to tell everybody "this is the soundtrack to MY life! ain't i cool?!" and i realize i sometimes to this exact same thing, and i realized just how fucking ridiculous it is from an objective perspective.
I hope this makes sense. Anyway, i hope you guys can answer this question. If not, no biggie. Thx
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Zimed
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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: Zimed]
#5664371 - 05/23/06 01:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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What you have to take into consideration however, is that there is no uniqueness to humans. We are all the exact same, except, we all put on different masks, with varied sizes/thickness/weight, and so on. These masks that I am saying represent our attitude or behavior. When you say, "You will likely never be the same", how can this be? The mind is a very, very complex object, in which nothing, not even a drug can fool. You should be able to reconstruct yourself, after a trip. A trip lasts very short compared to how long your mind has been in the world, and so, your mind have have control of itself. I don't see how you could not ever be the same. Are you saying you could go from being, a nice guy, to an arrogant one?
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stemmer
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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: Zimed] 1
#5664545 - 05/23/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, to put it simply it changes the way your brain functions for days after and people who have taken certain drugs at high to VERY high doses know, change is inevitable and final. At the VERY LEAST you will learn more about your own head. Granted some people just tend to like to get high off of these powerful tools, so they literally could fail to see the big picture and COULD become MORE arrogant.
So many associations in so little time. Everything has to do with something else. Even each small part contains the whole. The mind as a hologram.......... The whole might be a bit bigger than you would expect. Functions totally separate from your fractal memory. There is nothing in this world like fusing your whole brain together and viewing it as a fractal of sorts. It contains everything you think, every potential behavior, and every memory that makes you believe a certain thing to be true. For some people its obvious how you could NEVER be the same again. There are different routs to feeling this way(and knowing it is true for some people including yourself) is what I am saying. Go figure, the only people who actually KNOW this about hallucinogens have used hallucinogens. Some people who use hallucinogens still know little about why the simple word "rebirth" is very relavent to some people.
You will never understand these mind machines untill you know them personally.
Metaprogramming is the writing of programs that write or manipulate other programs (or themselves)<----------mind machines that dont belong to you, they belong to the evolved structure of the human brain.
Edited by stemmer (05/23/06 01:48 PM)
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Kaleidoscope
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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: stemmer]
#5664732 - 05/23/06 02:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh for those of you talking about souls and what not, to clarify.
identity/ego != soul
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Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.
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stemmer
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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: Kaleidoscope]
#5664760 - 05/23/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Its just that we were talking about losing ego forever and to what extent is losing your ego/self/soul relavent. Its not like these drugs can often cause permanent amnesia or anything like that. Thats not what I was saying in referance to "rebirth" atleast...
I see why you pointed that out though.
Edited by stemmer (05/23/06 02:50 PM)
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Syle
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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: TappyT]
#5665079 - 05/23/06 03:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
TappyT said: I have a question that maybe you guys can answer...fortunate this thread came up because i was going to create one with the same subject:
Can a "very mild" form of ego loss happen on high doses of marijuana? Oftentimes when i smoke a lot of pot, i lie down on my bed and ponder my existence and why i do the things i do. Every time, i come to a realization of just how meaningless "my" existence is in the grand scheme of things. For example, once after smoking a ton i though about my car. It's got a few modifications to make it "cooler" like a high-quality stereo, etc. I then came to a realization of just how petty that is....that all these people blast music to tell everybody "this is the soundtrack to MY life! ain't i cool?!" and i realize i sometimes to this exact same thing, and i realized just how fucking ridiculous it is from an objective perspective.
I hope this makes sense. Anyway, i hope you guys can answer this question. If not, no biggie. Thx
In a simple answer: definently.
My buddy had an ego death on MJ. Wasn't a large dose of it either. He had/has anxiety and depression issues though, so those really helped to bring out some of those feelings he had harboured up.
My friend basically thought he was physically dying. After his experience though, he didn't really grasp what had happened because he was unaware that he actually had an ego death. So unfortunately he didn't really take a whole lot from the experience.
Everyday I still think about my own ego death and how it has changed my perception of everything that I "know".
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
Edited by Syle (05/23/06 04:08 PM)
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beltane
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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: Zimed]
#5665848 - 05/23/06 06:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zimed said: What you have to take into consideration however, is that there is no uniqueness to humans. We are all the exact same, except, we all put on different masks, with varied sizes/thickness/weight, and so on. These masks that I am saying represent our attitude or behavior. When you say, "You will likely never be the same", how can this be? The mind is a very, very complex object, in which nothing, not even a drug can fool. You should be able to reconstruct yourself, after a trip. A trip lasts very short compared to how long your mind has been in the world, and so, your mind have have control of itself. I don't see how you could not ever be the same. Are you saying you could go from being, a nice guy, to an arrogant one?
Believe me ego death CAN change a person forever, it is one thing to think about it but its a different ball game to experience this. Once you realise that everything you think you know about yourself and the world is a pharse, you cant just fool your mind, its been imprinted forever. Its far too truthfull to ignore.
my ego death happened a year ago, I changed completely, its hard to be the same person again, it seems forced. Thats what the rebirth into a new personality is. It can even take months or even years for some to assemble their new personality, but most just latch on to their old one ,but their never the same again... Then again some people take these drugs and just have some laughs.....
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Zimed
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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: Kaleidoscope]
#5666098 - 05/23/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Would anyone be willing to give any examples as to what an ego death would be like, not the feeling, but personality change wise?
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stemmer
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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: Zimed]
#5666121 - 05/23/06 07:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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no, not after all those dumb questions.
The feeling.....Thats funny........I think many people have told you how it works but are not willing to sit there and tell you what your reaction might be. Personality wise, understanding in the world you hold to be true, and the understanding of a totally different set of brain functions that are alien to you.
HAve some balls and take some hallucinogens. They wont steal your soul MAN. Until then, stop asking dumb questions that people just have no time for. Hallucinogens are more complex than you can imagine. You cant sum up ego loss or rebirth in one sentance. If you try to persuade someone that this is possible(to any extent after you already have), or to one who has not used them before, there is no reason ATALL to further explain it. Please try to understand any post that follows if not and you are still so interested, just take a trip.
Edited by stemmer (05/23/06 07:41 PM)
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kaniz
That one, overthere.


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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: stemmer]
#5666196 - 05/23/06 07:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Psychedelics in general can alter a person, ego-death or not. Some changes I've noticed in me over the past while -- how much of this can I attribute to psychedelics and ego death? I have no idea. But, some of the changes
- Increased appreciation for nature and the outdoors - Increased appreciation for music and visual art - ability to experience a wider range of emotion (good and bad) - increased interest in spirituality/faith - slightly renewed sense of faith / spirituality, has gone from 'something I don’t give much thought to', to 'something that occupies much of my thoughts' - better ability to handle anxiety and panic attacks without needing medication - increased empathy towards friends/family, I'm finding I'm becoming increasingly close to my parents after spending some time pushing away from them - renewed focus and motivation in my life, gone from feeling 'lost and confused' for awhile, to finding a focus and the strength to move towards it - better understanding of myself, motivations, emotions and general better sense of self-awareness - increased interest in world religions, their histories, and the parallels between them, and how they relate to the psychedelic experience
Pretty much every change I think I could attribute to my recent exploration of psychedelics - has been a positive one. Its not like you have ego death then come back an entirely new person -- you are still very much you, and *most* of the times, the changes are subtle and almost hard to notice.
Now, would these changes of come about if I had never touched psychedelics? - who the hell knows. I'd be inclined to say no.
Now, in some cases - a truly profound psychedelic experience can drastically alter a person. I recall reading in the thumbprint thread, someone having a thumbprint go 'bad', but at the end of it - he ended up becoming an organic farmer and a devout Christian - which is like, 100% the opposite of what he used to be.
There are also many people who use psychedelics as tools to deal with past issues (ie: sexual abuse, pain of a lost loved one, etc) and are 'changed' at the end of the expierence.
But, its not like you have ego-death once and come out a totally 100% new person at the end of it, and its not really a 'true' death of the ego - its always there, and it will come back along with you.
It is also possible to expierence ego death through meditation / fasting / etc -- using psychedelics is just one way of many to attain this state.
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


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Re: Ego Death/Birth/Rebirth Queries. [Re: kaniz]
#5666235 - 05/23/06 07:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
kaniz said: Psychedelics in general can alter a person, ego-death or not. Some changes I've noticed in me over the past while -- how much of this can I attribute to psychedelics and ego death? I have no idea. But, some of the changes
- Increased appreciation for nature and the outdoors - Increased appreciation for music and visual art - ability to experience a wider range of emotion (good and bad) - increased interest in spirituality/faith - slightly renewed sense of faith / spirituality, has gone from 'something I don’t give much thought to', to 'something that occupies much of my thoughts' - better ability to handle anxiety and panic attacks without needing medication - increased empathy towards friends/family, I'm finding I'm becoming increasingly close to my parents after spending some time pushing away from them - renewed focus and motivation in my life, gone from feeling 'lost and confused' for awhile, to finding a focus and the strength to move towards it - better understanding of myself, motivations, emotions and general better sense of self-awareness - increased interest in world religions, their histories, and the parallels between them, and how they relate to the psychedelic experience
Pretty much every change I think I could attribute to my recent exploration of psychedelics - has been a positive one. Its not like you have ego death then come back an entirely new person -- you are still very much you, and *most* of the times, the changes are subtle and almost hard to notice.
Now, would these changes of come about if I had never touched psychedelics? - who the hell knows. I'd be inclined to say no.
Now, in some cases - a truly profound psychedelic experience can drastically alter a person. I recall reading in the thumbprint thread, someone having a thumbprint go 'bad', but at the end of it - he ended up becoming an organic farmer and a devout Christian - which is like, 100% the opposite of what he used to be.
There are also many people who use psychedelics as tools to deal with past issues (ie: sexual abuse, pain of a lost loved one, etc) and are 'changed' at the end of the expierence.
But, its not like you have ego-death once and come out a totally 100% new person at the end of it, and its not really a 'true' death of the ego - its always there, and it will come back along with you.
It is also possible to expierence ego death through meditation / fasting / etc -- using psychedelics is just one way of many to attain this state.
Nice sum up kaniz.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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