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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Supporting our troops
    #2582948 - 04/20/04 03:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Ever notice how in America, you have to support the troops? Even if you're a dove, you have to say something like "I support the troops, but not the war," or else you're deemed unpatriotic. Well, in the words of Bill Hicks, "Excuse me, aren't you all fucking hired killers?!"


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #2583112 - 04/20/04 03:43 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I support the troops. Just not the way in which they're being used.






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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: Learyfan]
    #2583124 - 04/20/04 03:44 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I used to think like that, but then it dawned on me that I don't want to support hired killers.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #2583225 - 04/20/04 04:03 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I'm curious, silversoul7 --

1) Would you prefer hired killers defend you or drafted killers?

2) Were those who invaded Hitler's Europe hired killers?

pinky


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: Phred]
    #2583235 - 04/20/04 04:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
I'm curious, silversoul7 --

1) Would you prefer hired killers defend you or drafted killers?

2) Were those who invaded Hitler's Europe hired killers?

pinky



1. Neither. I would prefer an armed populace defending their own borders.

2. Yes they were. It happened to have certain positive outcomes, but that doesn't change the fact that they were hired killers.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #2583238 - 04/20/04 04:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

That makes sense, but sometimes killing is nessessary.

I think if our troops were used properly, you might not see them as hired killers.




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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: Learyfan]
    #2583244 - 04/20/04 04:08 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I think if our troops were used properly, you might not see them as hired killers.



No, they'd still be hired killers. They'd just be hired killers fighting for a "good cause."


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #2583301 - 04/20/04 04:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

silversoul7 writes:

Neither. I would prefer an armed populace defending their own borders.

How are these citizens to learn how to fly jets, pilot ships, operate tanks and anti-aircraft guns and SAM missiles and stuff? Who is to maintain that stuff?

Yes they were. It happened to have certain positive outcomes, but that doesn't change the fact that they were hired killers.

And as such, not worthy of your support. Okay then.

pinky


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: Phred]
    #2583332 - 04/20/04 04:24 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
silversoul7 writes:

Neither. I would prefer an armed populace defending their own borders.

How are these citizens to learn how to fly jets, pilot ships, operate tanks and anti-aircraft guns and SAM missiles and stuff? Who is to maintain that stuff?



Do we really need that stuff to defend our borders? The strategy of an armed populace seems to have worked out quite well for Switzerland.

Quote:

Yes they were. It happened to have certain positive outcomes, but that doesn't change the fact that they were hired killers.

And as such, not worthy of your support. Okay then.



I'm not saying I'm going to judge them either, but I don't see why I need to act like they're such fucking heroes for killing other hired killers.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #2583419 - 04/20/04 04:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
The strategy of an armed populace seems to have worked out quite well for Switzerland.




Aren't the Swiss neutral? Don't they have a non-interventionist military policy? Don't they refrain from propping up dictators?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: Evolving]
    #2583422 - 04/20/04 04:41 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
The strategy of an armed populace seems to have worked out quite well for Switzerland.




Aren't the Swiss neutral? Don't they have a non-interventionist military policy? Don't they refrain from propping up dictators?



Ya, pretty horrible, huh?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #2583452 - 04/20/04 04:48 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Would you expect any less from the country that invented LSD?




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Mp3 of the month: Johnny Price- Marijuana, The Devil Flower



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Offlinefaelr
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #2583499 - 04/20/04 05:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

fuck our troops fuck 'em right up the ass!
sorry to any of my family members still involved in the war....fuck you.


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where i walk, i walk alone. when i fight, i fight alone. i am no one and i am nothing. yet all is that i am.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: faelr]
    #2583504 - 04/20/04 05:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

wow


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Offlinejrod38182
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: faelr]
    #2583653 - 04/20/04 05:44 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

  :thumbdown: :thumbdown:  :nonono:


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POLITICS, n. A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.
Ambrose. Devils Dictionary


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #2583667 - 04/20/04 05:49 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Ever notice how in America, you have to support the troops? Even if you're a dove, you have to say something like "I support the troops, but not the war," or else you're deemed unpatriotic. Well, in the words of Bill Hicks, "Excuse me, aren't you all fucking hired killers?!"





Explain to me how a cook is a "hired killer". Explain to me how a mechanic is a "hired killer". Explain to me how an armorer is a "hired killer". Explain to me how the captain of a naval vessel is a "hired killer". Explain to me how the vast majority of people in the military who aren't tasked with killing people are "hired killers". Explain to me how the vast majority of the people who are in combat positions, yet never kill a person, are "hired killers".


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2583694 - 04/20/04 05:59 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Do you think that cooks, mechanics, armorers, etc. comprise the majority of our troops? Also, when people talk about "supporting our troops," they're usually talking about the ones who are out there killing people.


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #2583749 - 04/20/04 06:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Do you think that cooks, mechanics, armorers, etc. comprise the majority of our troops?




A thinking man is dangerous, a knowing man is deadly. Do YOU 'think' that the majority of our armed forces are actually combat staff? Because I 'know' that that isn't true.
Quote:


Also, when people talk about "supporting our troops," they're usually talking about the ones who are out there killing people.



So, if you think that the man who faught the nazis were still hired killers, do you believe that they deserve respect? If so, you've hit the root of it. The man in the armed forces don't really choose where they go, they just go. I support the family members of US citizens who are being used in the war. I don't want them to die, and I want them to stay alive, thus, "support". If you still think that the men in WWII were hired killers, and in a way, they certaintly were, but you respect them, then you are admitting that the troops, tho they be "hired killers" are worth of respect. It's no more a soldiers choice today who he is fighting than it was years ago.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2583770 - 04/20/04 06:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

A thinking man is dangerous, a knowing man is deadly. Do YOU 'think' that the majority of our armed forces are actually combat staff? Because I 'know' that that isn't true.



No, I think the majority are reserves or are stationed somewhere, but I think the majority of those deployed to combat areas are combat troops. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Quote:

So, if you think that the man who faught the nazis were still hired killers, do you believe that they deserve respect?



Yes. They deserve the same amount of respect as any other human being, including the Nazis they killed.

Quote:

The man in the armed forces don't really choose where they go, they just go



True, but they choose to go into a profession which requires them to kill people when ordered to do so.

Quote:

I support the family members of US citizens who are being used in the war. I don't want them to die, and I want them to stay alive, thus, "support".



If that's how you define support, then I withdraw my statement. I don't wish death upon anyone on either side.

Quote:

If you still think that the men in WWII were hired killers, and in a way, they certaintly were, but you respect them, then you are admitting that the troops, tho they be "hired killers" are worth of respect.



Of course, but so is everybody else.

Quote:

It's no more a soldiers choice today who he is fighting than it was years ago.



True, but he makes the choice to go into the fighting profession.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: Supporting our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #2583790 - 04/20/04 06:33 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
No, I think the majority are reserves or are stationed somewhere, but I think the majority of those deployed to combat areas are combat troops. Correct me if I'm wrong here.




I don't think I could say for sure. It depends on what you define as combat, and combat support positions. For example, every man on a tank crew is in a "Combat position", tho one man doesn't do anything but driving. Albeit, he's drive a 500 ton killing machine, but he doesn't kill, directly.
Quote:


Yes. They deserve the same amount of respect as any other human being, including the Nazis they killed.




A man running a gas chamber killing innocent Jews deserves as much respect as a man liberating the camp? I don't really think so.
Quote:


If that's how you define support, then I withdraw my statement. I don't wish death upon anyone on either side.




You actually haven't made a statement, other than to say that not supporting the US troops is considered unpatriotic. Reading your inital post a few times over, I can't see anything about your actual position. Do you think that people can support our troops, but not the war? If you think so, then aren't people that don't support even our troops unpatriotic? If not, what DO you consider unpatriotic activies?
Quote:


Of course, but so is everybody else.




Ah, so you are saying that you have nothing but respect for BushCo, right? and Hitler, Stalin, pal pot, Idi Amin, the list goes on... you "respect" them, right?


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