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OfflineEllis Dee
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Let's not support our troops
    #1406038 - 03/24/03 01:40 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

These last few days since the war began in Iraq I've been reading in the paper about the anti-war movement in America supporting the troops as being patriotic. They seem to believe it's ok to be against a war as long as you support the people fighting it, then you're ok, because you're still patriotic. That whole notion strikes me as popycock, what utter rubbish. Here's an analogy for comparison as I see it, you're opposed to burglary but for burglars. The way I see it, it's the same principle as being against a war and for the combatants.

I'm opposed to the war and the troops in it. I see supporting the troops as supporting the war. I feel like the whole anti-war movement in my country has lost it's way by supporting that which it says it's against.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1406044 - 03/24/03 01:44 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

The troops didn't start this war. Bush did. They are only doing their job. If they refuse to fight, they'll get courtmarshalled. They don't set the policy. They are required to follow orders. I support our troops and hope they return home safely.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1406046 - 03/24/03 01:46 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

part of a soldier's job is to go off and fight, even if they personally do not agree with the reasoning behind the war. i'll bet that there are soldiers over there right now who don't want to be any part of this.

i support our troops. may they come home safely and as soon as possible.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1406053 - 03/24/03 01:47 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not against the war, but I don't feel any more different about a dead soldier, or a dead Iraqi civilian.

Actually, I feel more strongly about civilian casualties than dead US/UK troops. The soldiers made a conscious decision that they wanted to be in that situation. The Iraqis didn't.

But in the end, they're all just dead people I don't know.


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OfflineAngry Mycologist
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1406087 - 03/24/03 02:00 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The soldiers made a conscious decision that they wanted to be in that situation.



Precisely. This is why I also refuse to support the "Allied" troops. If you enlist you must have some clue as to why you're enlisting in the first place....



--------------------
The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1406089 - 03/24/03 02:00 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I had mixed feelings about this war for a few days. The war propaganda got to me a bit. I was roused up about any potential genocide in Iraq and a war could stop it. I shouldn't have fallen for it, I'm usually too smart for that, but genocide it an emotional issue for me.

I read in the papers and off the wires about our great victories we've had so far capturing oil fields. The oil fields are the most important to capture. The generals have their priorities, liberate the oil fields and then the people, lol. It shows it's about the oil, blood for oil. And now I see on television that in one city the marines are going door to door to fight people. That shows me indisputibly that this war is against arab people. You can't go door to door looking for people to fight and kill and claim differently. I can see myself in the Iraqis shoes there. Trying to stay safe and protect the family, trying to stay out of the combat. Maybe sitting in the living room with a loaded hunting rifle in case you've got to be a man and shoot to protect your family against hostiles. Then american troops come in and force you to kill them to protect your women and then kill you. It's unacceptable. Now as far as I'm concerned every US soldier and officer involved in this Iraqi conflict deserves to die for their crimes against civilians in their door to door terror operations.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #1406097 - 03/24/03 02:03 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The troops didn't start this war. Bush did. They are only doing their job. If they refuse to fight, they'll get courtmarshalled. They don't set the policy.




True, they are pawns in this 'game'. I live and work in the DC area and I have many friends who work for DOD. Many have mis-givings about this conflict but they joined and agreed to follow orders and they do.

Quote:

Precisely. This is why I also refuse to support the "Allied" troops. If you enlist you must have some clue as to why you're enlisting in the first place....




Believe it or not, many join because they love and want to defend their country. Many have been there since before the scum-bag clinton and they had no idea what would happen with Bush.



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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


Edited by grib (03/24/03 02:08 PM)


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: grib]
    #1406102 - 03/24/03 02:06 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Rail_Gun,

I'm impressed that you are against this war. I never would have guessed that because you used to be such a hardcore right-wingnut


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1406117 - 03/24/03 02:09 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

He's only against the war because he's afraid they'll legalize abortion in Iraq. :smirk:


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1406137 - 03/24/03 02:15 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Being mostly conservative doesn't mean I have to stop thinking for myself. Almost everyone I know is for the war and I need to be careful how I word things about the war when I'm around them. This forum is my only outlet for being completely honest about my feelings on the Iraq war.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1406145 - 03/24/03 02:19 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Hitler,

VERY FUNNY

Rail_Gun,

rite on


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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Offlinerhizo
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1406171 - 03/24/03 02:30 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

yeah i support the troops...the iraqi troops


--------------------
An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: rhizo]
    #1406235 - 03/24/03 02:51 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

yeah i support the troops...the iraqi troops

Is that a joke?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Anonymous

Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Murex]
    #1406282 - 03/24/03 03:06 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

both are humans.


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Offlinerhizo
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Murex]
    #1406284 - 03/24/03 03:07 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

it's not a joke. i can't believe how brave they are. the pentagon has been using the american media to run a pretty hard core psyops campaign. i'd probably surrender after seeing b-52s carpet bombing and a moab tested on tv.


--------------------
An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: rhizo]
    #1406301 - 03/24/03 03:14 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

You support the ones that fight, or the ones that surrender?


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1406309 - 03/24/03 03:17 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

If Buish was any kind of a man he would lead his men into battle like Caesar and napoleon, or Ajax and Achilles, or Hannibal over the Alps. No he says he is behingd the men 100 percent but he is actually behind them ten thousand miles.

mj

Thou Shalt Not Kill.

Means everyone.


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1406313 - 03/24/03 03:19 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


Thou Shalt Not Kill.




Thou shalt not murder would be a more accurate translation.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleClosetCase
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1406323 - 03/24/03 03:23 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Maybe sitting in the living room with a loaded hunting rifle in case you've got to be a man and shoot to protect your family against hostiles. Then american troops come in and force you to kill them to protect your women and then kill you. It's unacceptable. Now as far as I'm concerned every US soldier and officer involved in this Iraqi conflict deserves to die for their crimes against civilians in their door to door terror operations. 




Knowing that Americans DONT want civilian deaths AND that a lot of Iraqi troops are in civilian clothes, does it really make sense to sit in your living room with a rifle aimed at the troops coming in?  If you were a troop wouldn't you shoot someone like this, knowing about the ambush that happened?  I would shoot you.  :tongue:  (although I completely disagree with this war and would NEVER serve in THIS army)  If our soldiers deserve to die it's for invading another country. 


--------------------
"as your attourney I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top, and you'll need the cocaine.."

"well.. why not? I mean if anything's worth doing, it's worth doing right. THIS IS THE AMERICAN DREAM IN ACTION"



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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: ClosetCase]
    #1406352 - 03/24/03 03:35 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe sitting in the living room with a loaded hunting rifle in case you've got to be a man and shoot to protect your family against hostiles. Then american troops come in and force you to kill them to protect your women and then kill you. It's unacceptable. Now as far as I'm concerned every US soldier and officer involved in this Iraqi conflict deserves to die for their crimes against civilians in their door to door terror operations. 




Knowing that Americans DONT want civilian deaths AND that a lot of Iraqi troops are in civilian clothes, does it really make sense to sit in your living room with a rifle aimed at the troops coming in?  If you were a troop wouldn't you shoot someone like this, knowing about the ambush that happened?  I would shoot you.  :tongue:  (although I completely disagree with this war and would NEVER serve in THIS army)  If our soldiers deserve to die it's for invading another country. 



Fighting soldiers is one thing, but attacking families in their homes is always wrong. If soldiers come in my house I'd kill them, and I'm not kidding they'de be dead. It's not ambushing soldiers if soldiers come in your house and threaten your family. You have some twisted ideas on this. If I'm living in a combat zone and soldiers come to my house with guns and I feel they're any threat to my family I'll be a man and do what I have to do. You can never justify attacking civilian families door to door. 


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Edited by Ellis Dee (03/24/03 03:47 PM)


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