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OfflineSycronica
Seeker
Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 376
Loc: Inside my head
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: Phred]
    #4355375 - 06/30/05 12:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Why must you label me? Does it make you feel better? I am not a full on pacifist. I am not a full on anything except human of the planet earth. Which would be the only thing you could call me that would be accurate.

But I am getting bored. There is no prize to be gained by proving myself here. I am just a dreamer and it is a very dissapointing occupation.


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Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: Phred]
    #4355413 - 06/30/05 01:04 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Those who initiate violence are of course in the wrong.




How is violence wrong? Should we just completely forsake one of the main methods of natural selection?

Violence is seen as wrong because the moral view of violence being wrong may help our individual survival by discouraging actions that would threaten us, but in nature might still makes right.

Quote:

Those who advocate letting the violent have their way *cough* Pacifists *cough* are holding our species back from a greater existence.




The pacifists try to hold back responding to violence with violence. The pacifists do truely try to stop violence, but human nature is naturally violent, and if one side withdraws the other side will advance. Who is the violent one and who is the good one is all a subjective point of view in the end.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: Ravus]
    #4355462 - 06/30/05 01:19 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Natural selection will take care of pacificts on it's own.
What I want to know is, when did violence become so tabboo? Hippies in the 60s?


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4355468 - 06/30/05 01:22 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Quote:

snoopaloop53 said:
You should support the troops because we are the young men and women actually making a difference in the world. We are actually out there making things better for people in other parts of the world. We are selflessly going to where the rubber meets the road so that others can live better lives. What have you done?

IT IS THE SOLDIER
It is the soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet
Who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the campus organizer
Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, not the lawyer
Who has given us the right to a fair trial.

It is the soldier
Who salutes the flag,
Who serves under the flag,
Whose coffin is draped in the flag,
Who allows the protester to burn the flag.


?Copyright 1970-2005 by Charles M. Province





Soldiers do what they are told to do. If were told to shoot reporters and flag burners they would do it.

They don't grant rights.

Most of them don't give a flying fuck about freedom, neither do most Americans.

If you want to start giving "soldiers" credit for stuff, try "bayby killin", rape, genocide, etc...


How many innocent civilians have you and your co-conspirators killed?


What's funny is, while the soldiers were murdering Americans for burning flags, they would be thinking to themselves "Freedom isn't free! Gotta protect freedom! Gotta kill this crazy sociopath burnin my flag so us good Americans can have our freedom!"


Open your mind.TM




Soldiers don't need to be philosophical in their duties or be a combination of both bravery and having a thorough understanding of world politics. Soldiers should be praised and rewarded by those who understand this world better then them, and affirm that they do in fact, deserve the praise.

I am NOT calling them dumb barbarians however. There are certain individuals better suited for things than others. Soldiers are giving their lives and face the ultimate fear, death. That alone is worthy of the admirations we give to them, such as bravery, heroism, and honor.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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OfflineSchwip
Never sleeps.
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Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: looner2]
    #4355521 - 06/30/05 01:39 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Soldiers are giving their lives and face the ultimate fear, death. That alone is worthy of the admirations we give to them, such as bravery, heroism, and honor.






Exactly!!! Well said..... Thanks


-s


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--------------------------------

" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: Sycronica]
    #4355669 - 06/30/05 02:20 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Sycronica writes:

Quote:

Why must you label me? Does it make you feel better?




I didn't label you, you labelled yourself. Does it make you feel any better to label me falsely -- i.e. equating me with Scott McLellan?

All I am doing is pointing out that Pacifists such as yourself have a view of life not consistent with reality. Any attempt to live one's life while ignoring reality is fraught with danger, therefore readers of your comments deserve to be warned that your observations are based on a world-view out of touch with reality and that they should take that into consideration when weighing your arguments.

Quote:

I am not a full on pacifist.




Hmmm. So when you said in post #4338979 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4328732/page/2/fpart/3/vc/1 ...

Quote:

"And yes I am a full blown pacifist in theory."



and
Quote:

"But I will not raise a gun to another person under any circumstances (it's pointless, if I shoot someone, then someone they knew will want to shoot me; violence begets violence). Not even to defend my country..."




... you were being untruthful? Please tell the readers of this forum how we are to determine in which posts you tell the truth and which ones you don't. It will save us a lot of confusion in future.



Phred


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InvisibleIsaacHunt
Stranger
Registered: 05/27/05
Posts: 176
Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: Phred]
    #4355869 - 06/30/05 02:55 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

All I am doing is pointing out that Pacifists such as yourself have a view of life not consistent with reality. Any attempt to live one's life while ignoring reality is fraught with danger, therefore readers of your comments deserve to be warned that your observations are based on a world-view out of touch with reality and that they should take that into consideration when weighing your arguments.






Reality as you see it perhaps. Many of the greatest men in human history have been pacifists. Their ideas will live long after George Bush is forgotten rotten in his grave.

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: IsaacHunt]
    #4355901 - 06/30/05 03:01 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

IsaacHunt writes:

Quote:

Reality as you see it perhaps.




No, reality as it is.

Quote:

Many of the greatest men in human history have been pacifists.




The only reason such men lived long enough to be even remembered is because other men who had a firm grasp of the nature of reality dealt violently with violence on behalf of those Pacifists.



Phred


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: IsaacHunt]
    #4356024 - 06/30/05 03:28 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

IsaacHunt said:
Quote:

All I am doing is pointing out that Pacifists such as yourself have a view of life not consistent with reality. Any attempt to live one's life while ignoring reality is fraught with danger, therefore readers of your comments deserve to be warned that your observations are based on a world-view out of touch with reality and that they should take that into consideration when weighing your arguments.






Reality as you see it perhaps. Many of the greatest men in human history have been pacifists. Their ideas will live long after George Bush is forgotten rotten in his grave.




It is one thing to be aware of the current human condition and want to change it to something better, it is altogether scary and sad when reality cannot even be properly assessed.

Have you not read this thread whatsoever? 3500 years of recorded warfare passed through your brain without a register of what history has told us?


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: daimyo]
    #4356752 - 06/30/05 07:11 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

That was supposed to be a reply to Phred:

Quote:

To prevent those who wish to kill us or enslave us from doing so, duh.




Then I suggested that the military really wanted to protect freedom by killing people, they would be killing American Congressmen.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: looner2]
    #4356760 - 06/30/05 07:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Have you not read this thread whatsoever? 3500 years of recorded warfare passed through your brain without a register of what history has told us?





That war is pointless, but some people are hard to convince and do it anyway?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
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Posts: 27,634
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Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: looner2]
    #4356774 - 06/30/05 07:16 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Soldiers are giving their lives and face the ultimate fear, death. That alone is worthy of the admirations we give to them, such as bravery, heroism, and honor.





So we should give them the same respect that we give our enemies?






...and Evil Kineval?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4356952 - 06/30/05 08:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Quote:

Soldiers are giving their lives and face the ultimate fear, death. That alone is worthy of the admirations we give to them, such as bravery, heroism, and honor.





So we should give them the same respect that we give our enemies?






Enemies that deserve it.

Although our current enemies in Iraq like their wives and children to take the first bullets.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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InvisibleIsaacHunt
Stranger
Registered: 05/27/05
Posts: 176
Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: looner2]
    #4365591 - 07/03/05 05:15 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

3500 years of recorded warfare passed through your brain without a register of what history has told us?




History has told us the average person does not want war. Ask people around you if they wish to go and fight a war. See what answer you get. Ordinary people want peace.

Look at the millions of people who protested against the farcial bloodbath in Iraq. Do you think people "wanted" war in Iraq? If so why Did Bush have to make up the laughable fantasy of WMD?

There is a lot of money to be made from war for a very small percentage of human beings, unfortunately these tend to be the human beings who wield great power.

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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

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Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: IsaacHunt]
    #4366079 - 07/03/05 10:20 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

What part of history told you that average people do not want war? I bet that "history" would have been in the past 50 years or so.

Greek and Roman citizens felt honored to fight in battle against their enemies, and felt they owed their governments a favor for allowing them to live in a democracy.

The American Revolution was applauded by average citizens, as was the Civil War.

When World War I broke out, there were celebrations in the streets in almost every country that was fighting.

If you are going to say something non-factual as "History has told us the average person does not want war.", you should first back it up with some proof. Most people do not mind going to war if there is a good reason to do so.

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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: IsaacHunt]
    #4369526 - 07/04/05 01:25 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

IsaacHunt said:
Quote:

3500 years of recorded warfare passed through your brain without a register of what history has told us?




History has told us the average person does not want war. Ask people around you if they wish to go and fight a war. See what answer you get. Ordinary people want peace.

Look at the millions of people who protested against the farcial bloodbath in Iraq. Do you think people "wanted" war in Iraq? If so why Did Bush have to make up the laughable fantasy of WMD?

There is a lot of money to be made from war for a very small percentage of human beings, unfortunately these tend to be the human beings who wield great power.




And then they go play a first person shooter game or snuggle in to watch a good violent action movie. I find there tends to be a difference between what people say in polite conversation and what they actually think or do when it comes right down to it.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: what if i don't want to support "our" troops? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #4369679 - 07/04/05 02:48 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

They will say" no" because, of course, they don't "want" war. Only little children think that life is about what you want. Mostly it's about what you need and what you have to do to survive. Some people are scummy. That's why we need police.


--------------------

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