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Invisibleafoaf
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Kerry supports our troops
    #2445227 - 03/17/04 11:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Kerry slams Bush on Iraq, military
Democrat touts 'bill of rights' for military families
By Sean Loughlin
CNN Washington Bureau
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 Posted: 3:34 PM EST (2034 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a stinging broadside, Sen. John Kerry accused the Bush administration Wednesday of misleading the country about Iraq and neglecting soldiers who have been asked to fight that war.

Kerry, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, said Bush was more interested in tax cuts for the wealthy than providing the necessary equipment and body armor for service members in the field.

And he repeated his long-standing charge that Bush had driven allies away with what Kerry described as a "unilateral" approach to Iraq.

"We are still bogged down in Iraq and the administration stubbornly holds to failed polices that drive potential allies away,"Kerry told an audience at George Washington University. "What we have seen is a steady loss of lives and mounting costs in dollars, with no end in sight."

Kerry spoke at about the same time a huge blast rocked Baghdad.

Kerry made no mention of the blast in his speech, which focused largely on his proposed "bill of rights" for military families.

Security, defense
The Kerry and Bush campaigns have been leveling charges at each other for days over the issue of national security and defense.

The Bush campaign recently launched a television ad that criticizes Kerry's vote against a spending bill for Iraq and Afghanistan last year, saying it showed that he -- not Bush -- was failing to provide U.S. troops with the help they need.

Kerry, a four-term senator from Massachusetts and decorated Vietnam veteran, said his "bill of rights" would -- among other things -- fully fund health care for service members and veterans, provide men and women in uniform with the best equipment, increase life insurance for reservists and allow military families who lose loved ones to live in military housing for up to one year.

Kerry gave no specifics on how he would pay for such items, but said they could be accomplished by "shifting priorities" and "scaling back some programs that do more for defense contractors than for the national defense."

The senator proposed adding 40,000 troops to the regular Army on a temporary basis to "ease the burden on troops" and he called for the creation of a "Civilian Stability Corps," a reserve organization of volunteers who would help troubled countries achieve stability.

Such a corps, he said, would include professionals such as judges, civil engineers, police officers and teachers. They could help, he said, in such areas as restoring roads and power systems, renovating schools and hospitals, drafting a constitution and building a police force.

As he has done before, Kerry said that some troops had been sent to Iraq without proper body armor, and he said some families were reduced to sending such protection to their loved ones on their own.

"I can tell you right now: In a Kerry administration, no one will be getting body armor as a gift from a loved one," Kerry said. "It will come from the armed forces of the United States of America."

Pentagon officials have said there was a shortage of certain types of body armor last year, but that the problem has been remedied.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/17/kerry/index.html


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: afoaf]
    #2445513 - 03/18/04 12:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

"I can tell you right now: In a Kerry administration, no one will be getting body armor as a gift from a loved one," Kerry said. "It will come from the armed forces of the United States of America."



Paid for by the $87 billion Iraq funding bill Kerry voted against, to be used by troops riding in the M1 Abrams tanks Kerry also voted against.

What a maroon.

pinky


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Anonymous

Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: Phred]
    #2446299 - 03/18/04 08:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: ]
    #2446957 - 03/18/04 01:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kerry gave no specifics on how he would pay for such items, but said they could be accomplished by "shifting priorities" and "scaling back some programs that do more for defense contractors than for the national defense."




He could do it easily by stopping the War on Drugs. If only Kerry actually would take a stand on drugs, he would have so much more support. Even his forums, with over 100 pages of responses about the War on Drugs (which they keep breaking into separate threads so you can't see how many people are responding) says that.

Though I agree with the way he supports our troops. I just hope that as president he's a lot more clear on his opinions than he is while campaigning.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: ]
    #2447384 - 03/18/04 03:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

you are ludicrous.

the vote against the 87million supplemental was
a vote for part of it to come in the form of a loan.

what about bush's flip flopping?

new tone in washington?

compassionate conservative?

reduced government?

fiscal responsibility?

you see what you want to see...


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: afoaf]
    #2447446 - 03/18/04 04:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The premise of the thread is that Kerry supports troops.

Nothing could be further from the truth, as his voting record so amply illustrates.

He voted against pay raises for the military six (or more -- don't have the exact number at hand right now) times. He voted against pretty much every weapons system used by the troops in Iraq today, including the Bradley Fighting Vehicle and the M1 Abrams tank.

And of course there was his fraudulent testimony under oath in his VVAW days re the "Winter Soldiers" fable.

This is apart from his vote against the $87 billion funding, almost all of which was earmarked for troop support in one form or another.

To say Kerry supports the troops is at best naive, at worst disingenuous.

pinky


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InvisibleXochitl
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: Phred]
    #2448388 - 03/18/04 07:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Why does throwing billions of dollars towards already-bloated "defense" always have to equate to "supporting the troops"? Perhaps the nuiances of the particular bills that Kerry voted against were totally whack. Do you know the exact content of these bills and what was tacked onto them? If not, then why are you quick to judgement?


Conservatives always scream in opposition to any increase in funding to public schools because they claim public education is a blackhole and "throwing tax dollars at a problem is a waste." Why are they so in love with writing near-blank checks to the Defense Department Inc.?

I would say that defense spending is far more reckless and unaccountable and inefficient than funding public schools, no?

So Kerry voted against some new-fangled unnecessary weapons system...? GOOD!


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As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon


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InvisibleXochitl
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: afoaf]
    #2448414 - 03/18/04 07:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

what about bush's flip flopping? new tone in washington? compassionate conservative? reduced government? fiscal responsibility?

you see what you want to see...




^^^ exactly.


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As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: Xochitl]
    #2449312 - 03/18/04 11:18 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Xochitl writes:

Why does throwing billions of dollars towards already-bloated "defense" always have to equate to "supporting the troops"?

Troops are paid out of defense budgets. Their uniforms are paid from defense budgets. Their helmets are bought with defense budgets. Their cots, their food, their medical supplies, their toilet paper, their mosquito repellent. Get it?

Perhaps the nuiances of the particular bills that Kerry voted against were totally whack.

Ah yes. The famous Kerry "nuance".

Nothing nuanced about voting to develop a new tank -- one that might have a chance to compete with Soviet built ones which were designed post-WWII. Nothing nuanced about voting --repeatedly -- against pay raises for troops. Nothing nuanced about providing troops with helicopters a little newer than Viet Nam war vintage. I'm an ex-Canadian. You might want to talk to some Canadians here about the forty-plus year old Canadian helicopters which continue to kill the Canadian pilots who fly them.

Conservatives always scream in opposition to any increase in funding to public schools because they claim public education is a blackhole and "throwing tax dollars at a problem is a waste." Why are they so in love with writing near-blank checks to the Defense Department Inc.?

Because defense is a legitimate function of the federal government. Education is not.

So Kerry voted against some new-fangled unnecessary weapons system...? GOOD!

Going to war in Viet Nam era helicopters and World War II era tanks is not a high percentage move. Forcing troops to use obsolete equipment is hardly "supporting the troops". Consistently voting against pay raises for military is hardly "supporting the troops". Voting against the 87 billion required to provide troops with the necessities -- including, yes, body armor -- is hardly "supporting the troops".

If you feel US troops should be limited to Sherman tanks and P57 Mustangs and Lee-Enfield bolt action rifles, that is of course your prerogative. Just don't expect any rational person to believe a senator who holds that same view is "supporting the troops".

pinky


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InvisibleXochitl
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: Phred]
    #2449903 - 03/19/04 01:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Troops are paid out of defense budgets. Their uniforms are paid from defense budgets. Their helmets are bought with defense budgets. Their cots, their food, their medical supplies, their toilet paper, their mosquito repellent. Get it?




Of course, but material support is only a portion of "defense" spending. There are far greater and unnecessary expenses in the name of "defense." Got it?

Quote:

Nothing nuanced about voting to develop a new tank -- one that might have a chance to compete with Soviet built ones which were designed post-WWII. Nothing nuanced about voting --repeatedly -- against pay raises for troops. Nothing nuanced about providing troops with helicopters a little newer than Viet Nam war vintage. I'm an ex-Canadian. You might want to talk to some Canadians here about the forty-plus year old Canadian helicopters which continue to kill the Canadian pilots who fly them.




Please provide reference to the bills that Senator Kerry voted against that show they were only for pay raises and equipment upgrades and nothing more. Then demonstrate these upgrades and whatever else was tacked onto these bills were all that necessary and wise.

Quote:

Because defense is a legitimate function of the federal government. Education is not.




...and neither is massive, frivolous government spending and subsidies in the name of "defense." Just because defense is a function of the federal goverment does not mean it should be a free-for-all.

Perhaps if the US military was not spread all over the world, engaged in numerous unnecessary police/occuping actions, there would be more funding saved and put to better use, no?


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As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: Xochitl]
    #2451063 - 03/19/04 10:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Dude, read the title of the post. "Kerry supports our troops".

Then try to understand what the reality of it is --

Kerry's "support" of troops is limited to the words that came out of his mouth at that press conference. His actions, which are all a matter of public record and verifiable by anyone with a computer and search engine, indicate that he is likely the furthest senator currently serving in voting for anything which makes the troops jobs (and lives) easier.

If you want to derail things by insisting that some of the dollars assigned to defense are spent on things other than troop support (which of course they are), open another thread. If you want to argue that the US defense budget is bloated and could be smaller, open another thread.

The claim made was that "Kerry supports our troops". My counterclaim was he does nothing of the sort, and that in fact his voting record demonstrates quite clearly that the reverse is true.

If you wish to provide us details of something he has actually done to support the troops, that would be great. Post it here and let's look at it.

pinky


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: Phred]
    #2451594 - 03/19/04 02:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

does helping to turn the tide of public opinion
on vietnam and the subsequent withdrawal
of US forces from that theater count?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: afoaf]
    #2451719 - 03/19/04 03:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were referring to actual troops, not to veterans.

But if you want to discuss his actions after his return from his four month tour in Viet Nam, we can do that as well.

You consider his perjury during the "Winter Soldiers" hearings as "supporting the troops"? His false vilification of them as the worst mass murderers since the hordes of Ghengis Khan contributed to many hardships for returning vets. I seem to recall returning troops being spit upon, having difficulty finding employment, losing friends and lovers who were convinced by Kerry and Hanoi Jane and her ilk that My Lai was the norm.

But maybe that's okay, since by the time they were back on US soil to face all these things they were no longer technically "troops". And what the hell... even if they were still troops, they were sadistic rapists and mutilators and torturers. Must be true -- John F. Kerry said so, under oath.

Kerry has an odd definition of "support". Despite all his carefully crafted "band of brothers" bullshit, nothing John F. Kerry has ever done in his political career could ever be considered "supporting the troops".

pinky


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: Phred]
    #2451904 - 03/19/04 04:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: ]
    #2454174 - 03/20/04 02:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Mushrooms said:
Come on pinky, he voted for it before he voted against it.  :smirk:

Mr. Waffles hasn't taken a stand yet that he hasn't changed.  I really wonder what the guy really thinks.




Thats why he appeals to everyone!

:0


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: Xochitl]
    #2454197 - 03/20/04 02:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Xochitl said:
Why does throwing billions of dollars towards already-bloated "defense" always have to equate to "supporting the troops"? Perhaps the nuiances of the particular bills that Kerry voted against were totally whack. Do you know the exact content of these bills and what was tacked onto them? If not, then why are you quick to judgement?




Did you just way "totally whack"? I think thats the first time I've read that phrase in this forum. Maybe we could get Snoopy G Gangsta and Homey The Motherfucker Killer to come in and put in their two cents worths, muh nigga doggy dog dog.
Quote:


So Kerry voted against some new-fangled unnecessary weapons system...? GOOD!




Again, the POINT of this topic is that he is pro-military. Taking their weapons, funding and pay away, and giving them body armor, hardly makesh im pro-military. Geez... some people are totally funky to the homie g max, my doggy dog! Whack as a smack on the back, fo shizzle.

*rolls eyeS*


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Kerry supports our troops [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2454530 - 03/20/04 03:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I love how people talk about Kerry waffling on issues. Bush is the KING of waffling on issues. Check out the .gif below.......



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