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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Support Proper Solutions to National Security Issues
    #1504339 - 04/29/03 02:18 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

From: Matt Howes, National Internet Organizer, ACLU
To: ACLU Action Network Members
Date: April 29, 2003

Support proper solutions to national security issues!

Congress will soon be voting on legislation that would significantly
infringe on privacy rights without making us any safer from terrorism.
The Congressional investigation by the House and Senate intelligence
committees into the September 11 attacks uncovered a number of serious,
structural breakdowns in the intelligence community.

But instead of taking action to address the real failures in the
national intelligence services, several Members of Congress have proposed
legislation that would give the government new, unprecedented spying
powers and significantly infringe on the privacy rights protected by the
Fourth Amendment.

Congress needs to address the real national security issues -- not
adopt false solutions that violate Constitutional rights.

Take Action! Click here to get more information and to send a free fax
to your Members of Congress.

http://www.aclu.org/NationalSecurity/NationalSecurity.cfm?ID=12483&c=110


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Support Proper Solutions to National Security Issues [Re: silversoul7]
    #1554335 - 05/16/03 04:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Does'nt the shroomery have a forum for random news copies?? Anyways privacy is a common moral of americans, think we would just take this away from the little kid on the street.. totally paranoid and unamerican I think this guy is, any security is for good measure, and to be used for good measure only.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,723
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Support Proper Solutions to National Security Issues [Re: ]
    #1554362 - 05/16/03 04:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'm so far to the right I make only right hand turns when I drive....

I think that for the most part the ACLU is staffed by a bunch of moronic fuckheads.....

But they're right on this one.

Wake Up!


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleJoshua
Holoman
Male

Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,389
Loc: The Matrix
Re: Support Proper Solutions to National Security Issues [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1555099 - 05/16/03 11:28 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I think that for the most part the ACLU is staffed by a bunch of moronic fuckheads.....





Why?

They stand for our civil liberties. I have a good impression of them.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Support Proper Solutions to National Security Issues [Re: Joshua]
    #1555585 - 05/17/03 03:27 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

For one thing they are big supporters of welfare which violates my right to property by seizing it and giving it to others. They seem to like defending the so called rights of some and destroying the rights of others. Another problem is that they do not support my right to own a firearm. They really like to pick and choose which "rights" they defend while claiming to be defending all of our rights.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleJoshua
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Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,389
Loc: The Matrix
Re: Support Proper Solutions to National Security Issues [Re: z@z.com]
    #1555724 - 05/17/03 06:00 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

How do they ever seize your property?

Conspirator

Chew on this: We The People Foundation For Constitutional Education

Chew in a good way of course.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


Edited by Joshua (05/17/03 06:04 AM)


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InvisibleJoshua
Holoman
Male

Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,389
Loc: The Matrix
Re: Support Proper Solutions to National Security Issues [Re: z@z.com]
    #1555726 - 05/17/03 06:14 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms




Peaceable?

I'll have to read up on the cases the ACLU has defended....
Do they ever prosecute?

BTW...wellfare is for all of us...as a whole. I don't think that it in itself is a bad thing. Have you ever needed help? Are you really suffering in aiding someone else from suffering? I'm sure you are well above poverty and have no concern for those who are not. Perhaps they can help themselves, perhaps they can not.

I'm trying to learn here...my points are made as for a constructive discussion.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Support Proper Solutions to National Security Issues [Re: z@z.com]
    #1556307 - 05/17/03 04:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

they don't "violate" your right, they simply take advantage of the fact that you are part of their system, unless you live on homesteaded land, avoid taxes, live as a fugitive, grow your own food, and never visit the store, you are part of the system, like it or leave it!

Hey and while your out "there" make your own gun and use it whenever you wish.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Support Proper Solutions to National Security Issues [Re: Joshua]
    #1556625 - 05/17/03 08:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I have no problem with helping the poor. I think it is a good thing. I do however have a very big problem with being forced to help the poor. I also do not believe that throwing money at a problem is ever going to help much in the long run. I have an aunt who became basically addicted to the welfare system. She wouldn't get a job because it would cause her to lose her benifits. Welfare is a failing system IMO. I also have had the priveledge of working at a grocery store. Not much makes me more angry than seeing a person who has just used their food stamps load up their groceries into a brand new fully loaded expidition.

I am not well above the poverty line. I am a poor college student who has been recently (last year) cut off by his parents. No more free money for me.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleJoshua
Holoman
Male

Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,389
Loc: The Matrix
Re: Support Proper Solutions to National Security Issues [Re: z@z.com]
    #1556699 - 05/17/03 09:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Did you check out the link? You may not be forced to pay taxes...it may be voluntary. This year will be the last year I pay taxes.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Support Proper Solutions to National Security Issues [Re: z@z.com]
    #1556862 - 05/17/03 10:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

For one thing they are big supporters of welfare which violates my right to property by seizing it and giving it to others. They seem to like defending the so called rights of some and destroying the rights of others. Another problem is that they do not support my right to own a firearm. They really like to pick and choose which "rights" they defend while claiming to be defending all of our rights.



I'm afraid your "right" to keep your money to yourself without giving some to Uncle Sam is not contained in the Constitution. Neither is your "right" to decide what the government does with that money. The ACLU is concerned with CONSTITUTIONAL rights, not some percieved "natural rights." And I'd be delighted to see if you can give me a link to where the ACLU says they do not support your right to own a firearm.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Support Proper Solutions to National Security Issues [Re: silversoul7]
    #1557224 - 05/18/03 02:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.



(emphasis added)

We do in fact have a right to property.
I am however done polluting this thread and further derailing it. Feel free to start another one.





--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Edited by z@z.com (05/18/03 02:45 AM)


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Support Proper Solutions to National Security Issues [Re: Joshua]
    #1557241 - 05/18/03 02:59 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I read part of it and I am very skeptical. I'll believe it when I see it. Be careful about that man. Even if that site is legally correct that does not mean that the government will follow the law.
Let us know how that works out for you.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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