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Re: Not meant to offend anyone [Re: Asante]
    #2386304 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
If you discount psychoanalysis and go for definition 1 the Ego is the "you" that not only decides you need to take a leak but locates the bathroom and unzips your fly. An ego seems pretty essential in this definition, if only to prevent embarassment should it return after the peak finding you in a puddle and the center of attention :grin:



Apparently the people of dictionary.com have never experimented with psychadelics or Eastern religion. hehe.

One can function without any sense of an independant perspective at all. Cosmic consciousness and so forth... the ego is something that gets retired pretty early on in the path up to that.

The individual perspective ALWAYS exists. As long as you are looking through these eyes, then there is an individual perspective. I consider the ego the mental program designed to ensure survival. You could even go further and say that the ego is just the sense of having an individual perspective....

And since it is entirely possible to experience and to be without a sense of individual perspective, even though that individual perspective STILL exists, then the ego is not the self, and is only a mental program that filters how you look at the world and treat your incoming signals by way of your sense receptors, in the hopes to ensure your survival, the continuation of that individual perspective.

It is possible to be without any thought at all and yet continue to experience. Where is the ego then? :grin: Consciousness exists without thought. "In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious" is trying to say that consciousness is to have ego. I can't agree with this.  :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Not meant to offend anyone [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2386430 -

I have to jump in and say that the ego is important for survival. Some people just get screwed up in childhood and have an exaggerated ego, or damaged ego, and that's what gets in the way when an adult.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Not meant to offend anyone [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2386448 -

***You could even go further and say that the ego is just the sense of having an individual perspective....***

In that case I can slip in and out of the Ego on a mere cue!
Its really a definitions thing, but such is life.  I equate the Ego with the Soul, the "ME" that I suspect is universal & the Godsoul. The Soulware :smile: is the thing that works the machine, not just reproduction, maintenence and those things but also the brain, the place where wetware meets software, the explanation and rationalisation as well as spiritualisation machines for our earthsuit.

To my cosmology life flows through the organism, past or through the Soul. Indeed the term "ME" is ill-chosen, and we're on one line in that I on a deeper level believe the Soul in essence is nothing but the Observer, but i didnt want to increase the mess and the "ME" is easier to swiftly relate too. The Soul lies within the "ME" but identity can indeed be lost.

On the one hand you have the extreme of full conscious participation (acting/thinking) and on the other side there's full conscious experiencing. Most highly impressive things in mylife have been times where I was closer to the experiencing side of things, like i find that the mere act of sensory deprivation alone (say lie in bed/darkness and shut off activity of body and mind is far more insightful then most Trips i read of with sensory and inner  distractions and The Hight-Ashbury Free Clinic's battle-proven A.R.R.R.T Talk-down technique in fact revolves around comfortably distracting a horrified, scared, dynamic consciousness, whereas all such things cease to be once a high degree of inert consciousness is reached.

I am opposed to people storming at Ego Death like there's no tomorrow, upping doses just to "get there" and not do the work. I have major concerns regarding Ego Death:

To spew my biggest concern: If somebody advances towards Ego Death it is known it causes increasing distress of frightening intensity in quite some people who resist to "let go". I myself am one of those, like Dr. Shulgin I think the road is fraught with danger for most. Advancing on Ego Death is interestingly symbolized in the manga anime movie "AKIRA" which i really recommend for trippers and meditators alike.

According to Dr. Stanislav Grof's masterpiece "LSD Psychotherapy" it is common for the suffering/dynamic consciousness to mount to cataclysmic proportions, before being sucked into Ego Death/inert consciousness.

Now usually once Ego Death is approached so close one passes the Point of No Return you're sucked in and it takes its course, which usually is OK.

But my concern is that if you get very close to Ego Death and manage to resist the Hells and pull back, the suffering -without- being liberated can be so immense that your dynamic consciousness get ripped apart, you will get all sorts of post-trip aftereffects and Ego Death keeps pulling at you to draw you in for quite some time when not on drugs at all.

This is in my view the nature of most trip-accidents: they are usually the result of intense trips loaded with unspeakable terror the resisting of which will cause deleterious aftereffects because the release and liberation was not reached while the problems increased.

What I have experienced and witnessed is that even 0.5 gram doses of mushrooms (which generally are not overwhelming) will put you on the path of insight, spiritual growth and healing in the earthly (dynamic) world, steering towards inner spiritual cleansing successfully with people being able to resist the emergence of material they can't deal with which will strengthen the earthly/dynamic consciousness with usually benificial effects. This is the way of the Ayahuasca churches: A low dose of DMT is the principal catalyst.

On the other hand you have the high-dose approach. This strives for the astral/inert consciousness and thus Ego Death by using dosages that tend to be overwhelming and may impose suffering that is unique in nature and sheer intensity and often is near impossible to resist. But if succesfully resisted this tends to give rise to the really bad trips and the really worrisome deleterious after-effects after the Session. The desired Ego Death tends to bear beneficial effects of proportional greatness. This is the way of the Amazon Medicine men and women who use things like Cohoba or Virola snuffs.
A high dose of DMT is the principal catalyst.


My observations throughout the literature, the Shulgin books, native tribe information and Shroomery postings is that at least 4 out of 5 people do not have what it takes to go for the Leary/Grof Ego Death approach, including myself. This majority will often derive great benefit from the Insight/Shulgin-type low dose (consistent non overwhelming intensity and retaining self-control equals a low dose and not X grams) while at substantial risk for deleterious after-effects.

Ego Death/total experience is very hard to achieve before flatlining but is no better or more spiritual then the down-to-earth dynamic approach, and for most it seems more beneficial to their everyday lives then highly stressful high dose sessions. In both cases you evolve, one slower, the other faster. It is to be seen which percentage of either group gets furthest in the long run.
To each his own.



I am very curious as to your tales from the outer regions however! I will not go there until my blood stops pumping and my earthly  resistance brain centers shut down one by one by the physical dying process. I hope everyone will get there in the end before re-entry in the next planetary flesh suit. But please tell me how it is for you as I could hardly be more interested!




.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Not meant to offend anyone [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2387170 -

fireworks_god said:
Do you consider the ego the individual perspective or the mental program that is hell-bent on protecting said individual perspective?



I suppose the desire to pick up a shovel is connected to the satisfaction and enjoyment of what one creates...which would fall into the individual perspective category.

It took me all day to get this far; Good question; Thanks.

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Re: Not meant to offend anyone [Re: castaway]
    #2391009 -

Okay, ja, it definitely comes down to just definition.. hehe.

Kaiowas looked up ego in a dictionary and only had something about the complex that like decides what input we are conscious of.. something to that effect...

So we have a lot of different things that we are defining with the same word. hehehe.

Hehe, as far as my tales of the outer region, there aren't any, actually. hehe. Never went that far, I haven't tripped a lot. Only read the Handbook To Higher Consciousness book, I recommend it! hehe

And castaway... is it possible to still pick up the shovel with no attachment to what effects picking it up creates? Is it possible to just be, in that respect? I haven't read too much into Zen, but I want to! :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Not meant to offend anyone [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2391681 -

You really are too far ahead of me in many respects.

If ego is a tool for getting satisfaction and enjoyment (as I see it)...

...and enjoyment is the end-all of existence...

...then to just "Be" ,without attatchment...would be boring as hell, AND equivalent to a state of non-being...which may be attractive when enjoyment is unavailable.

" Is it possible to still pick up the shovel with no attachment to what effects picking it up creates?"-

I have No ideas on that...Is it possible to just 'Be' without attatchment? ...i don't think so;

That would be like being a sociopath...from which society would quickly draw a division.

"Is it possible to just be, in that respect?"-

Yes I suppose so...but it would be in isolation.

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Re: Not meant to offend anyone [Re: orion]
    #2391762 -

I dislike how some personify the concept of "god"...


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.

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Re: Not meant to offend anyone [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2392869 -

What do you mean by "personify the concept of "God"? "


--------------------
==================================================

mind, not matter, is causation




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Re: Not meant to offend anyone [Re: orion]
    #2398089 -

To "personify the concept of 'God'" means to basically to make God into a human. To give him a personality and thoughts of one of us, or to give Him a human figure. To represent! :grin:

My concept of God doesn't include a personification of God.

Castaway, I was referring to the ego as the protector of the individual perspective. I don't see how just being without attachment wouldn't be enjoyable. It doesn't involve cutting yourself off from the moment. It involves totally enjoying the moment and not trying to grasp the experience as your own.

But I don't see the ego as a tool for getting satisfaction and enjoyment. The ego developed out of a need to continue our survival. It limits what we are conscious of in order to focus us on one specific thing, survival. It has evolved with us and plays a part in everything because people don't have a limit on it.

If someone was charging at you from a hill with a gun, the ego with its fight or flight focuses you on the immediate threat.. your head isn't going to be thinking about the looks of those clouds overhead, how hungry you are, the sounds of the birds, etc. etc... its the man with the gun! :grin:

But ja, I don't like a definiton of the ego that makes it THE self. The self IS the self. The ego doesn't reign over all, and it shouldn't.  :lol:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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