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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Internal Conflict and the search for peace...
    #2174677 - 12/13/03 02:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It's quite interesting but it's something I've been aware
of for many years now at least on some concious level.
There is an internal conflict within us that we seek
to resolve either materialistically or spirtually.
In my case, I realized long ago that there was no way
that it could possibly be resovled materialistically.
But what I find difficult to put my finger on is the
cause and exact nature of this internal conflict...
I mean why exactly am I so psychologically frustrated.
If I analyse logically, there is absolutely no need for
this strange internal resistance. Intellectually and
philosophically I can analyse, reduce, and reason it all,
but it never concludes with a deep psychological resolution.
I mean altho I've had periods of satisfaction and relaxation
in my life, I've never felt an ultimate satisfaction so to
seak. By this I mean a feeling of utter resolve of inner
conflict. It's always there at the back like an undercurrent.
Most Mystics and popular New-Age gurus, e.g. Eckhart Tolle,
talk about an undercurrent of peace, but all I'm aware of is
a constant undercurrent of conflict. I don't believe that
there is even a cause for this conflict. Of course I could
intellectualize and think that it's a primordial fear of
pain and the realization that we'll never be immune to pain
and the possibility of experiencing it is very real, but
then I could also intellectualize that it's not imminent
and it's irrational fear of something that hasn't happened
yet etc. Either way, in the end nothing is resolved. I guess
what I'm trying to say is that there seems to be an innate
need for "an end", by that I mean knowing that a state
has been reached where we are safe, safe from harm
and suffering. But that's impossible to attain since we're
human and will always experience pain, so it seems like an
irreconcilable angst...
I'm rambling, but I had to put this train wreck of thoughts
into words and have u all suffer along with me  :smirk:
thoughts ?


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: lucid]
    #2174708 - 12/13/03 02:51 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I mean knowing that a state
has been reached where we are safe, safe from harm
and suffering. But that's impossible to attain since we're
human and will always experience pain, so it seems like an
irreconcilable angst...

But that's impossible to attain since we're human sorry Lucid but i must respectfully disagree with the part of your post that i highlighted in bold, and you know WHY i can't agree too :nut:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineRandolph_Carter
НơĻ?ĢΉō

Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 29,281
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: lucid]
    #2174734 - 12/13/03 03:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

plants. I grow plants, and small animals, and fungus, and just about anything else that is possible to under my limited circumstances.

Something about seeing this wonderful little thing striving against the odds that i've put it in, in a place far from its home, completely and utterly reliant on me for its needs and survival, puts me at ease. No matter the difficulty of its life, or the fact that i am an inconstant and occasionally malevolent force, they keep growing, hoping only to reproduce, caring nothing about the future.

Life is life....pain happens...but it's not really worth thinking about. Just keep growing and striving, regardless of the inconstant and occasionally malevolent universe (and people) around us.
Safety is an illusion at best....stagnation involved in true safety is death.
My plants remind me of this.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2174758 - 12/13/03 03:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Randolph Carter said:

Life is life....pain happens...but it's not really worth thinking about.




But how does one NOT think about it ? I mean other than
continuous distraction ? I mean intellectually, I see your
point completely, but what I mean is that my very being
will always be aware of this and will maintain the undercurrent
of anxiety. I think animals in the wild, such as deer in Africa,
might also maintain this stance of mind since they're in constant
threat of being devoured etc...
Not sure if there is a way to NOT think about it, get rid of
it, or even the New-Age cliche of "accepting" it...cause in all
cases it will always be there...and no amount of rationalization
seems to mitigate it...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: lucid]
    #2174792 - 12/13/03 03:28 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I've found the same thing within myself. A kind of existential angst that no material thing can cure. I sometimes think that this is the state of the psyche when it is without love. True love that is - giving and recieving. Other times I think that it's simply part of the human condition. Without it, what would motivate us? We are forever striving for the unspeakable.


--------------------


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: lucid]
    #2174799 - 12/13/03 03:30 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

ONe thing to realize in this...intelligence (at least in the self-aware capacity humans have) is not a survival attribute.  The process of self-awareness is dangerous...precisely because it leads to attempts at rationalizing our pain and fear, and the future apparently filled with such.

You can't rationalize this...life is growth and change, and for a being aware of the process, pain is inevitable.  It will ALWAYS be.  Being aware of this undercurrent in life is also a sad fact.  Anxiety is caused by thought on items that you can't change.  You can't change this, or make it go away, or even reduce it to a level that is acceptable, because by attempting to reduce it to an acceptable level, you become aware of the fact that your plans are flawed, and that something will always be able to peirce thru and cause pain.
My life is currently in a very sad state of flux...i am on probation for driving intoxicated (going to be for over a year and a half now) i have no job, i have no real training in any field of work, and i have bills and rent payments piling up at speeds i don't even like to acknowledge.
Bottom line: despite all this, i will survive.  If necessary, i can live off of the land around me, and the people who live on it.  There is no circumstance in which i will NOT be able to survive.  Considering this fact, i have no real worries.  Granted, i can allow myself to drop into a state of fear, anxiety and depresson over these facts, or i can take my own skills and work each day towards resolving these problems.  this is what i choose to do.  If it ever gets overwhelming, i just consider my plants.

And being constantly distracted thru working to diminish the threats to your comfort, or working to resolve a question you have, is a very good way to put it aside.
I make a choice each and every time this conflict is pushed into my awareness to negate it....allow it to be...and seek to resolve it.  I put no energy to trying to make it go away thru thought... it will always come back, but the current physical manifestations can and will be dealt with.
Thusly this portion of life no longer concerns me....
Guess it was my turn to ramble. :wink:


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: Revelation]
    #2175182 - 12/13/03 06:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Well stated! And as the Good Book says: "True love dispels all fear."


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: lucid]
    #2175762 - 12/14/03 01:39 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Lucid, here's how it is:

Forget about "accepting" it.
Rationalizing, as you've found, won't stop it either.
True love is just another sufficient distraction at best (only when it comes to overcoming the internal struggle, I'm not knocking true love).


The only cure is the hardest to come to terms with...
You must RELISH it!
That's right, cherish the fuck out of your internal conflict - it's YOURS.
Don't ignore it, celebrate it.
Hell, I want you to WORSHIP it! GIve it a fucking name... put it on a pedestal... praise it for the god it is...
Shout from the mountaintops "THIS IS MY INTERNAL CONFLICT AND I LOVE IT!"

Then and only then will it stop giving you problems.

I'm quite serious.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: Sclorch]
    #2175812 - 12/14/03 02:18 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

:lol: :tongue:


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: lucid]
    #2175815 - 12/14/03 02:19 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

are you mocking me Sclorch ? :smirk:
no need to rub it in man :frown:


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: lucid]
    #2175909 - 12/14/03 02:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

No. "I'm quite serious."

The only God I know is uncertainty.
It's the wild horse that can never be broken.

Internal conflict is such a "problem" because of uncertainty.
I told you it's hard to come to terms with.
But I swear to you... the essence of life IS uncertainty itself.

Do I have to write this in blood?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: Sclorch]
    #2175981 - 12/14/03 03:28 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'm reading a book on "Compfortable with Uncertainty"
by prema chodran....ironi that I bought the book, interresting
tho...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: Sclorch]
    #2176142 - 12/14/03 05:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
Hell, I want you to WORSHIP it!  GIve it a fucking name... put it on a pedestal... praise it for the god it is...




I call mine "Jesus". :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineZenGecko
enthusiast
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 285
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2176311 - 12/14/03 09:03 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

lucid i know what your talking about here. To some extent i would agree with sclorch, but i lean more towards getting ok with it, rather then relishing it, accept, and place no value judgement on "it" or anything is more my way. letting go and all that. i know some people think thats crap, but i know from personal experience that it isnt, atleast not for me, i let go and in a moment everything changed, but its a hard thing to do, or not to do, it just happens when your ready for it, and then u cant stop it. Or u may be able to induce it with drugs but it likely wont have the same lasting effects.
But i will tell you that it is possible to get to that point, where your completely at peace and safe and whatever else you said. Where u know everything is as it should be, and there is nothing to fear...ever. i've been there, it can be fleeting, or it can last a life time. Mine was fleeting for the most part, though i have kept something of it, it changed me profoundly, but it didnt "cure" me completely forever, but it did for atleast a few weeks or months, and still reinforces me. i know what is possible, now i'm just trying to get back there, and stay there. It happened in a time just after things were the absolute worst for me, the only time i'd ever been depressed, and my mind was noisey and choatic, and then i kinda went back to normal, and then in one moment i blew way past normal.
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2176512 - 12/14/03 12:06 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hey ZenGecko,
could u tell me a bit more about this experience you had ?
or if u've already posted the details somewhere if u could
pls post a link to it...
Thanks ! :laugh:


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: Sclorch]
    #2176520 - 12/14/03 12:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:

Do I have to write this in blood?




only if I get to make out with the sacrificial virgin first  :smirk:


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: Sclorch]
    #2176590 - 12/14/03 12:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It remains to be seen if your recommendation - which is called "paradoxical intention" in Victor Frankl's school of 'Logotherapy' - applies to existential crises. The method works with certain phobias and obsessive-compulsive problems, both of which can be 'short-circuited' this way, but not with an entire mode of being-in-the-world.

It just amazes me that anyone can immediately dismiss ''true love" as a mere "distraction" when the prescription has been made by many profoundly human beings, the greatest (in my belief) of which was Jesus. I wonder why someone who is about to dismiss this prescription does not, or cannot, give pause and hold his tongue. It requires just a modicum of simple humility to recognize how ridiculously arrogant it is to dismiss Wisdom in favor of some mere mortal opinion. Then again...to suggest worhipping conflict and pain pretty much clarifies which side of 'The Force' you belong to, whether you realize it or not. And...if you actually are attempting to 'help' lucid, then that old addage about the path to Hell being paved with good intentions is well-illustrated once again.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2176676 - 12/14/03 01:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ZenGecko said:
lucid i know what your talking about here. To some extent i would agree with sclorch, but i lean more towards getting ok with it, rather then relishing it, accept, and place no value judgement on "it" or anything is more my way. letting go and all that. i know some people think thats crap, but i know from personal experience that it isnt, atleast not for me, i let go and in a moment everything changed, but its a hard thing to do, or not to do, it just happens when your ready for it, and then u cant stop it. Or u may be able to induce it with drugs but it likely wont have the same lasting effects.
But i will tell you that it is possible to get to that point, where your completely at peace and safe and whatever else you said. Where u know everything is as it should be, and there is nothing to fear...ever. i've been there, it can be fleeting, or it can last a life time. Mine was fleeting for the most part, though i have kept something of it, it changed me profoundly, but it didnt "cure" me completely forever, but it did for atleast a few weeks or months, and still reinforces me. i know what is possible, now i'm just trying to get back there, and stay there. It happened in a time just after things were the absolute worst for me, the only time i'd ever been depressed, and my mind was noisey and choatic, and then i kinda went back to normal, and then in one moment i blew way past normal.
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be




I've read about this, after it happened to me. I went through a cataclysmic experience a year and a half ago, and that experience caused me to find a peace that I haven't lost since then.

But I read an article since that time that many will go through times like that which will cause them to "wake up" in time to prepare for 2012.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePositronius
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Registered: 11/27/03
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: Frog]
    #2176681 - 12/14/03 01:56 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

yeah mass hysteria! I love self-fulfilling prophecies, cant wait to see what the 2012 cult pulls off come the final judgement.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Internal Conflict and the search for peace... [Re: Positronius]
    #2176684 - 12/14/03 01:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I'm not part of any cult, but I'm watching to see what happens. I'm going to find that link. But I'm not on my 'puter right now, so it'll have to wait.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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