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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Internal Dialogue, peace, 3 diff mind patterns
    #1994131 - 10/09/03 06:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I meditated for the last 5 hours where my mind quieted
to a point of very little Internal Dialogue n I just
wanted to share my experience, and some thoughts I
had this morning pre meditation.
Through direct experience with a quiet-mind state, I've
realized that on it's own a quiet mind does not induce
peace, joy or anything positive for that matter
(contrary to popular New-Age dogma).
The way I see it, mood (peace, joy, depression etc), is
certainly generated by more than just internal dialogue,
every single thing we percieve affects us, as well
as visual images in the mind. One of the reasons that
the mind is constantly chattering away is because thoughts
are associated with other thoughts and are often triggered
by external perception. Mood is an entire mind pattern
that is highly associated and not simply dependent on
one thought or another.
Also, I was thinking of 3 differnet kinds of learning:
1) where "kowing" - i.e. knowledge - is sufficent to
alter a belief or mood. E.g. if I see a scary looking
unusual animal and several authorities (that I trust)
explain to me that the animal is harmless and I see
people petting the animal, that will probably be sufficient
to dispel my fear.
2) where "knowing" is NOT enough. E.g. when learning a
skill. Take dancing as an example, the instructor may
tell u the exact steps and u could read manual upon
manual of dance descriptions and even watch videos, but
until u keep trying it and practicing (and with additional
input - i.e. feedback from the instructor) u'll never be
able to actually do it.
3) where knowing and "practicing" are both insufficient.
E.g. if you're sick, u may remember what it's like to feel
better, but the memory is insufficient to actually make
u feel better. You may try your best to feel better, but
it won't make any diff.
Just some thoughts...



--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Internal Dialogue, peace, 3 diff mind patterns [Re: lucid]
    #1994230 - 10/09/03 06:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You forgot instances where not knowing is enough :wink:


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Internal Dialogue, peace, 3 diff mind patterns [Re: Alan Stone]
    #1994407 - 10/09/03 07:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Stone said:
You forgot instances where not knowing is enough :wink: 



:lol: brilliant, and so true :grin: 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineDavid_Scape
Anti Genius
Male

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 878
Loc: U.S. of muthafuckin A.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Internal Dialogue, peace, 3 diff mind patterns [Re: lucid]
    #2000543 - 10/11/03 05:53 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

GREAT POST!

You could also think of the three different types of learning as a spectrum of the 'size' of the bits of information learned. Where number 2 ("knowing not enough") would be when the 'grains' of information are too fine to understand by word of mouth, ie one would have to do it himself. and number 3 (where knowing and practicing are insufficient) represents the other side of the spectrum where the grains are too big and are sortof unrecognizable by our emotions.

Number 1 would fit the middle of the spectrum where the bits of information would be perfectly chewable and our emotions have no problem incorporating it.


Alan Stone, good addition! the 'Not knowing' learning part would be where we 'know' strictly by emotion or instinct. for instance, in lucids example where he said he was initially afraid of an unusual animal would be his emotionally learned behavior; he 'knows' witout 'knowing'. The way i see it, this is the type of learning that is the hardest. It explains why it's so hard to loose wieght and keep it off, to quit drugs, and to change our personalities because in order to learn this way it takes a personalized strucutured enviroment for long periods of time.


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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Invisible2Experimental
Male User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Re: Internal Dialogue, peace, 3 diff mind patterns [Re: lucid]
    #2001186 - 10/11/03 10:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

nice post... I like the part about "knowing". the one where u know from practice. I always used to think when I was a kid that some people just have a "gift" a natural born talent or whatever. Now I know that ANYONE can do ANYTHING with practice and mindset.


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Offlineenotake2
Stop Bush's war
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 1,457
Loc: Comfy chair in my lounger...
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Internal Dialogue, peace, 3 diff mind patterns [Re: lucid]
    #2001459 - 10/12/03 01:22 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I agree that knowing and practice are important to learning and changing behaviours and thoughts. I disagree about mood and thoughts not being connected. I think your mood is tied to your thoughts. Trouble is, like actions, thoughts become more automatic the more you practice them. So as with touch typing, playing an instrument, driving a car etc. thoughts become more automatic. Eg. a thought may pop to mind without any previous conscious process like "It's not worth it". One of the characteristics of automaticity is that an action or thought can run to completion without conscious awareness. This is how seeing something in the environment can trigger an emotion without experiencing conscious thought about it. Though if you monitor your changing moods and catch yourself when it happens - chances are what triggered the mood change is something that you have been down about eg. two people kissing and you are down about your relationship breakup. Negative automatic thoughts can be changed by consciously challenging them. The trouble with mood is that it takes some time to change. So you can challenge your thoughts but the mood change is not immediate but is significantly lifted maybe a few hours later.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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