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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Icelander]
    #22956402 -

Wow, I've never seen such a divide over a subject in all my time here!

Icelander said:
You can feel the difference between a deeply loving human and one that doesn't buy into the whole 'love' thing when you meet them first person can't you? Sometimes I feel like I walk around in a world of spectres, and those that love deeply, and celebrate their humanity, just feel more 'there'.


No I can't.


That's interesting. Most people I know (or at least those I associate with) get a 'vibe' when meeting an unknown human. What helps you separate those worth your time and those who are not?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22956416 -

Buy how they act and what they say. This includes body language.
BTW this little debate is nothing compared to the epic debates when I first came to this site.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (02/28/16 06:50 PM)

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Icelander]
    #22956427 -

If you don't get what I'm saying, then you too need to do some reflection of your own.

Unless you feel fulfilled. In the case that you are fufilled and there is nothing lacking in your life then your set and we're just different people. If you do feel like something is missing but can't comprehend what I'm describing, then Ive got nothing for you.

I'm more than happy to discuss the possibility of us being "just animals" but not with someone who finds this concept to be determined.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Icelander]
    #22956445 -

Icelander said:
Buy how they act and what they say. This includes body language.


So I guess that the fact that you don't buy into love leaves you bereft of the desire to know whether they are loving individuals? Do you view it perhaps from a place of how compassionate they are instead? I mean, how does one separate a human who you may really come to bond with vs. one that might place huge emotional burdens on you or, materially, steal from you when your back is turned?

Icelander said:
BTW this little debate is nothing compared to the epic debates when I first came to this site.


Yeah I bet man. I find things increasingly.. watered down as I age. Is that me changing or the world around me....?

A question for another time I suppose.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22956454 -

If you don't get what I'm saying, then you too need to do some reflection of your own.

what a lame thing to say. I could easily just say the same back to you and it would still be lame.

I don't care what you do or do not want to discuss here. I'll go on discussing any  topic of interest with most folk here.  It's easy to see how much you love to point fingers at people rather than addressing the topic.  Leave if you have to. Go in peace. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22956459 -

Thanatos10 said:
Can you prove that it is love?

As for being kind as a wonder of nature, it isn't. There are cases of animals being kind to each other (even across species), it's nothing marvelous. Humans and animals aren't more than dust at the end of the day.


No. Love has to be known personally. Not everything can be proven. What I can do is share something that poured right out of my truth hole a couple weeks ago . I posted it in "to be a philosopher" when it came out. Its a paragraph that came from the absence of thought, I promise you.

"To be a philosopher is to be the highest of the low, the best of the worse and the most loved of the hated. The day a person realizes that they are a philosopher is the day that person dies. From that comes something not unlike a newborn child full of innocence and curiosity. The old person having died takes with him all the baggage that made the person and with that all the stuffing that made that person. A philosopher knows that all he can do is love and that this love can either build things up or destroy them completely. To love something into destruction is what people call hate but only a philosopher knows that this too is only love. A philosopher knows that what he thinks is usually wrong and it's only what he knows that brings value. Conscious thought and deceptive senses can at the very same time be both the philosophers best friends and worst enemies. Philosophy is loving wisdom and wisdom is knowing that there is only love and only love can assign value. This is all a philosopher knows. I am a philosopher and I know that I love all things."


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22956468 -

So I guess that the fact that you don't buy into love leaves you bereft of the desire to know whether they are loving individuals

I don't buy into "unconditional" love.  I can tell if a person is good by how they act and what they say. I don't have to call it love.  I can call them nice, decent, good, etc. I can even say love because to me, as I said and as I have posted and no one including you chose to address love is just another way of saying you like something very much. I like certain people because I value the qualities they  possess. If I didn't value them I wouldn't care much for them. This is not unconditional. The condition is that they possess qualities I value for myself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Icelander]
    #22956479 -

Icelander said:
what a lame thing to say. I could easily just say the same back to you and it would still be lame.

I don't care what you do or do not want to discuss here. I'll go on discussing any  topic of interest with most folk here.  It's easy to see how much you love to point fingers at people rather than addressing the topic.  Leave if you have to. Go in peace. :thumbup:


Oh I ain't going away that easy. I'm sorry my answer was insufficient. I am not qualified too or have the ability to change your perspective nor would I ever want too.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22956481 -

Here's what philosophy is.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/philosophy



We can all make up our own however. :laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Icelander]
    #22956492 -

Icelander said:
If you don't get what I'm saying, then you too need to do some reflection of your own.

what a lame thing to say. I could easily just say the same back to you and it would still be lame.

I don't care what you do or do not want to discuss here. I'll go on discussing any  topic of interest with most folk here.  It's easy to see how much you love to point fingers at people rather than addressing the topic.  Leave if you have to. Go in peace. :thumbup:


I see that I should've been more clear with this sentence. I apologize. This was only meant as a suggestion and I don't wish to elaborate on it. So lets just pretend I never wrote it.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Icelander]
    #22956516 -

Icelander said:
Here's what philosophy is.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/philosophy



We can all make up our own however. :laugh:


Yes! Not only can we make up our own however but we can also let others do it for us. I prefer to do it myself. I don't know how long I'm here for and I don't know whats next so as long as I am here I'm going to make it my way. I call it "mental freedom" and for me Its the most important thing in the world. I could lose everything I own in this world and none of it would matter as long as I am able to maintain this mental freedom.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #22956522 -

deezdelta said:
I'm more than happy to discuss the possibility of us being "just animals" but not with someone who finds this concept to be determined.


I think this embodies something I have been struggling with here of late. We seem to sometimes not so much explore the subject with a willingness to change, but rather sit on our opposing sides arguing. Not that I'm innocent in any way, but I find it kinda hard at times.


Icelander said:
I can call them nice, decent, good, etc. I can even say love because to me, as I said and as I have posted and no one including you chose to address love is just another way of saying you like something very much.


Then I shall address it. At least, based on subjective experience, which is all we really have on love right? I mean, there are no tests that can measure it, are there?

Things that I like (of which there are a great many things in this world) do not stir my soul. I just have a mild preference for them, given the opportunity. They do not provide deep, mystical experiences that make me feel like something is inside me that is way bigger than this tiny collection of atoms which make up my body and the electrical functions in my brain. When I feel love, I feel it come from a place thousands, nay millions of times bigger than the space which my physical from takes up.

However like I said, I guess this is kinda a moot point. I get the feeling that unless there were a scientific test that proves its existence, you would refute love. And unless there were a test, I could not prove it. So it's a kinda stalemate, is it not? Even if I address it (which can only be done subjectively when it comes to love, perhaps that is part of its beauty?), you will just refute it.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22956528 -

deezdelta said:
Thanatos10 said:
Can you prove that it is love?

As for being kind as a wonder of nature, it isn't. There are cases of animals being kind to each other (even across species), it's nothing marvelous. Humans and animals aren't more than dust at the end of the day.


No. Love has to be known personally. Not everything can be proven. What I can do is share something that poured right out of my truth hole a couple weeks ago . I posted it in "to be a philosopher" when it came out. Its a paragraph that came from the absence of thought, I promise you.

"To be a philosopher is to be the highest of the low, the best of the worse and the most loved of the hated. The day a person realizes that they are a philosopher is the day that person dies. From that comes something not unlike a newborn child full of innocence and curiosity. The old person having died takes with him all the baggage that made the person and with that all the stuffing that made that person. A philosopher knows that all he can do is love and that this love can either build things up or destroy them completely. To love something into destruction is what people call hate but only a philosopher knows that this too is only love. A philosopher knows that what he thinks is usually wrong and it's only what he knows that brings value. Conscious thought and deceptive senses can at the very same time be both the philosophers best friends and worst enemies. Philosophy is loving wisdom and wisdom is knowing that there is only love and only love can assign value. This is all a philosopher knows. I am a philosopher and I know that I love all things."


Truth is relative.

Also doesn't prove the existence of love either way.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22956531 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
deezdelta said:
I'm more than happy to discuss the possibility of us being "just animals" but not with someone who finds this concept to be determined.


I think this embodies something I have been struggling with here of late. We seem to sometimes not so much explore the subject with a willingness to change, but rather sit on our opposing sides arguing. Not that I'm innocent in any way, but I find it kinda hard at times.


Icelander said:
I can call them nice, decent, good, etc. I can even say love because to me, as I said and as I have posted and no one including you chose to address love is just another way of saying you like something very much.


Then I shall address it. At least, based on subjective experience, which is all we really have on love right? I mean, there are no tests that can measure it, are there?

Things that I like (of which there are a great many things in this world) do not stir my soul. I just have a mild preference for them, given the opportunity. They do not provide deep, mystical experiences that make me feel like something is inside me that is way bigger than this tiny collection of atoms which make up my body and the electrical functions in my brain. When I feel love, I feel it come from a place thousands, nay millions of times bigger than the space which my physical from takes up.

However like I said, I guess this is kinda a moot point. I get the feeling that unless there were a scientific test that proves its existence, you would refute love. And unless there were a test, I could not prove it. So it's a kinda stalemate, is it not? Even if I address it (which can only be done subjectively when it comes to love, perhaps that is part of its beauty?), you will just refute it.


Those deep mystical experiences are nothing more than a product of the brain. that's all it is, a feeling that comes and goes.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22956535 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
Also doesn't prove the existence of love either way.


Exactly, like I was just saying. But, by the same token, can you disprove it?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22956543 -

deezdelta said:
Icelander said:
You mean he's real because he agrees with you and anyone who doesn't isn't real? 

OMG , we are all real but have differing beliefs.

Once again you are talking emotional nonsense imo. He's every bit as real  as you are.


No. He's "real" because he has possession of his own mind and he is able to listen and reason. He knows he doesn't know everything and he loves discovery.

I am a human being. My being is primarily based on human "emotional nonsense". Also the term "emotional non-sense" is fallacious and contradictory. Yes, I embrace emotion. I am not an animal. I am a man and within the mind of man there exists emotion. Are you actively denying that emotions are essential to a human experience?


I can. Emotions aren't exclusive to humans, but humans are the ones who are ruled and place too much importance on them. There is no difference between us and animals really at the end of the day.

Also emotions are a product of the brain.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22956552 -

From my own personal experience this mental freedom has brought a joy for life that is immutable and very powerful. I spent a lot of my life depressed and I always felt like there was something missing. Once I was able to let go of what I was told life was, I instantly became overwhelmed with the pure joy of simply being a human on earth. This is the only way I can explain what happened. I was depressed and I didn't even know what depression was. Now I haven't been depressed for over six years. Not one single day. My life isn't missing a thing. I'm fully content. So as a fully content man, I go about living. Thats all.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22956555 -

deezdelta said:
Icelander said:
Here's what philosophy is.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/philosophy



We can all make up our own however. :laugh:


Yes! Not only can we make up our own however but we can also let others do it for us. I prefer to do it myself. I don't know how long I'm here for and I don't know whats next so as long as I am here I'm going to make it my way. I call it "mental freedom" and for me Its the most important thing in the world. I could lose everything I own in this world and none of it would matter as long as I am able to maintain this mental freedom.



Mental freedom doesn't really exist imo. Your  ideas are shaped by culture and language none of which you created. You and all the rest of us are just playing by the rules of a game we never created.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22956559 -

Thanatos10 said:
Emotions aren't exclusive to humans


This is not fact:

The argument that animals experience emotions is sometimes rejected due to a lack of evidence, and those who don't believe in the idea of animal intelligence often argue that anthropomorphism plays a role in individuals' perspectives. Those who reject that animals have the capacity to experience emotion do so mainly by referring to inconsistencies in studies that have endorsed animal emotions. Having no direct means to communicate emotion, the difficulty of providing an account of emotion in animals relies heavily on work-around experimentation that relies on results from human subjects.[22]

So, neither love nor emotions are scientifically provable right? So perhaps we just accept that these are both things about which we can only talk absolutely about subjectively?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22956563 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Also doesn't prove the existence of love either way.


Exactly, like I was just saying. But, by the same token, can you disprove it?


Thing is, I don't have to.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.

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