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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Ped]
    #3271326 - 10/24/04 02:23 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

To me, marijuana and specifically mushrooms were the first experiences I had where I was faced with something that was completely outside my reality tunnel ---I couldn't organize the experience and fit it into any of my beliefs. It tore my belief system down, and since then I've been a quest to explore and understand more about consciousness and experience. This inevitably leads people to eastern thought, because eastern thought is magnificent for finding models that you can use to think about consciousness and the nature of experience. These models seemed more opened ended, more powerful as tools of thought, than any western materialist philosophy I'd ever come across.

But yeah, maybe drugs and eastern thought are linked because the drug experience often introduces people to a reality that goes against what they thought possible, and this drives them to understand it by exploring different models of reality. Good thread!


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Offlinekbilly
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Re: NOT Spiritual? [Re: Swami]
    #3273539 - 10/25/04 12:37 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Hue, ok so if dope isnt spiritual why is there a relgion based on its use?
heard of rastas, apparently its not spiritual for you but for them it is.


Edited by kbilly (10/25/04 05:19 PM)


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: kbilly]
    #3273600 - 10/25/04 12:55 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

i like brussel sprouts...

eating is a spiritual experience for me, because i feel like im sustaing my life force, or absorbing another life force (heh).

so eating brussel sprouts is a spiritual experience for me.

if you dont like brussel sprouts does that make you not spiritual? no.

if you do like brussel sprouts but do not think eating is spiritual, does that make brussel sprouts not spiritual?

man, im blowing my own mind over here.

peace!


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



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Offlinekbilly
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Todcasil]
    #3274303 - 10/25/04 06:10 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

dont lie man your stoned thats why eating brussel sprouts is spiritual...

for me eating pussy is spiritual :wink:

no, i was pointing the rastas out to hue who is very sure its not spiritual at all. next time i see them i gonna have to put them straight, and get them to a real church. hes a swami after all.


Edited by kbilly (10/25/04 05:20 PM)


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: kbilly]
    #3274349 - 10/25/04 06:35 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

i might be tired and mistaken but don't the rastas consider smoking pot about the same as catholics consider drinking wine durin communion
part of the faith, but not the faith itself


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3274468 - 10/25/04 08:38 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

isnt that part of the faith spiritual?

and btw POT: never touch the stuff  :rasta:


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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OfflineJalruza
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Todcasil]
    #3274670 - 10/25/04 10:54 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

coyot has been nothing but nuisance on this forum

Ped, im not quite sure what your trying to prove, new age thought and drug use......... its like spagetti and meat balls mate, if your liberated you tend to do liberated things.

I think ganja and other substances bring out the magick that was long forgotten. It contradicts conservative dominant belief systems so smokers are banished and prosecuted and labeled as 'bad'.

As for Eastern spiritrual practises its just another road towards the same destination. If you like your vibes zen flavoured you worship Buddha. Plus, India and Himalayas is where hash has been revolutionised. Surely people smoked columbian and mexican grown but manali is what im on about. 30 years ago hash was unknown to the outsiders. Only illuminatuses and armchair theorists would smoke black afghani late at night and deep in thought.

Anyways, i like it all, Buddhas and monks and zen and the rest. bring out a big Buddha scalpture and put it in my living room.

Btw you want to watch out for eastern hash cut with opium - no good. Go for premium manali from reputable rubbers only


--------------------
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And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3274676 - 10/25/04 10:56 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Smoking marijuana is in no way spiritual. That is like saying I had a religious experience after drinking a twelve pack of Budweiser. Both experiences are pleasant, but lack depth. Partying is not spiritual. Marijuana is also NOT a psychedelic.




"Smoking marijuana is in no way spiritual"... "smoking marijuana is in no way spiritual".....  :confused:

For the most part, I have agreed with a lot of what you have been saying in this thread, up until this reply that I am quoting from... Let the fun begin.. :evil:

I've personally always thought that spirituality is always concerned with the personal experience, what occurs in the mind, the thoughts and feelings. Not only, then, is it very illogical and sort of ignorant (sorry  :tongue:) to say "marijuana is in no way spiritual". Especially since we are discussing experiences with marijuana, which, as I will get to in a moment, does carry a possibillity of allowing deeper spiritual experiences on it. Saying that anything at all is "in no way spiritual" is also illogical and ignorant.

As marijuana (was just listening to a recording by Timothy Leary yesterday, and he discussed the effects of marijuana...  :laugh:) brings more focus into the moment, and sort of turbo-charges our incoming inputs from our senses (more sensation is experienced consciously, in the moment), it is certainly able to easily allow spiritual experiences. Awareness and focus are right here, right now, and one feels more from their senses. One becomes more aware of their thoughts. Perceptions are altered.  :mushroom2:

Now, to me, that sounds like the beginnings of a profound, satisfying, deep spiritual experience (depending on how the person uses it). It doesn't take as much effort for one to bring more consciousness into the moment and to the senses when on marijuana. It is obviously a tool that we can use as we wish, including (quite aptly) for spiritual experiences.

So it is at least necessary to acknowledge that marijuana can be used to spiritual ends. I would also like to take the moment to note that, from my perspective, spirituality comes entirely from one's own mind, and that it is absolutely not inherent in any physical object (although, of course, some allow one to pursue spiritual experiences more easily). Spirituality is entirely about a state of being.

"Partying is not spiritual". Ever been to a party? It seems to me that interacting with a collection of other human beings in a relaxed setting is definitely going to allow spiritual experiences. Perhaps not from a "deep, silent, individual" aspect, but there is obviously many different kinds of spirituality, many different experiences that can have different, meaningful spiritiual aspects to them. A balance between different experiences could also be seen as a good thing.

Nothing like getting together with other humans and enjoying being human, after all.....  :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleCherryBomM
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Jalruza]
    #3274688 - 10/25/04 11:00 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ewok said:

Ped, im not quite sure what your trying to prove, new age thought and drug use......... its like spagetti and meat balls mate, if your liberated you tend to do liberated things.






Maybe this is the answer to the original question?  It's fairly simplistic... and isn't that the core of eastern thought?  Simplicity?    :grin:


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Offlinebobbyrox
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Ped]
    #3274704 - 10/25/04 11:07 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

the reason for the relation lies in the fact these religions are all associated with an awareness of some mystical truth that is similar to what one may experience when they're high.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Ped]
    #3274910 - 10/25/04 12:45 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I think it's mostly for cultural reasons. I'm sure that the experiences brought on by meditation, and by the use of marijuana or other drugs can be compared, but the reason people associate the two is because both were made mainstream at around the same time, by the same subcultures.

In the 60's, pot became popular, and so did "alternative" religion and spirituality. Hippies were smoking pot, getting into Buddhism, or Krishna, or a handful of other types of spiritual thought.

I'm not sure that the association goes a whole lot much deeper than that, but it could be said that people who enjoy the peaceful, stoned mindset, would enjoy the peaceful, meditative aspects of these religions.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineJalruza
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Swami]
    #3275015 - 10/25/04 01:33 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
You jumped the gun, Ped. Before we can ask "Why are they related?", one must ask, "Are they related?"




Again you are rebelling against the obvious, Swami.


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Offlinekbilly
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Jalruza]
    #3275858 - 10/25/04 05:29 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

SHINTOISM (Japan) Marijuana was used for the binding together of married couples, to drive away evil spirits, and was thought to create laughter and happiness in marriage.

HINDUISM (India) The God Shiva is said "to have brought Marijuana from the Himalayas for human enjoyment and enlightenment." The Sardu Priests travel throughout India and the world sharing "chillum" pipes filled with Marijuana, sometimes blended with other substances. In the Bhagavad-gita, Krishna states, "I am the healing herb" (Ch. 9:16), while the Bhagarat-purana Fifth Canto describes hashish in explicitly sexual terms.

BUDDHISTS (Tibet, India, and China)From the 5th Century B.C.E. on ritually used Marijuana; initiation rites and mystical experiences were (are) common in many Chinese Buddhist Sects. Some Tibetan Buddhists and lamas (priests) consider Marijuana their most holy plant. Many Buddhist traditions, writings, and beliefs indicate that "Siddhartha" (the Buddha) himself, used and ate nothing but hemp and its seeds for six years prior to announcing (discovering) his truths and becoming the Buddha (Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path).

ZOROASTRIANS or Magi (Persia, circa 8th to 7th Centuries B.C.E. to 3rd to 4th Centuries C.E.), it is widely believed by many Christian scholars, commentators, etc., that the three "Magi" or Wise Men who attended the birth of Christ were cult references to the Zoroastrians. The Zoroastrian religion was based (at least on the surface) on the entire Marijuana plant, the chief religious sacrament of its priest class, and its most important medicine, (e.g., obstetrics, incense rites, anointing and christening oils), as well as lighting or fire oils in their secular world. The word "magic" is generally considered derived from the Zoroastrians "Magi."

The ESSENES (ancient Israeli sect of extreme Hebrewites approx. 200 B.C.E. to 73 C.E.) used hemp medicinally, as did the THERAPUTEA (Egypt), from whom we get the term "therapeutic." Both are believed by some scholars to be disciples of, or in a brotherhood with, the priests/magician of the Zoroastrians.

EARLY JEWS As part of their holy Friday night services in the Temple of Solomon, 60-80,000 men ritually passed around and inhaled 20,000 incense burners filled with kaneh bosm (Marijuana), before returning home for the largest meal of the week.

SUFIS OF ISLAM (Middle East)Moslem "mystical" priests who have taught, used, and extolled Marijuana for divine revelation, insight, and oneness with Allah, for at least the last 1,000 years. Many Moslem and world scholars believe the mysticism of the Sufi Priests was actually that of the Zoroastrians who survived Moslem conquests of the 7th and 8th Centuries C.E. and subsequent conversion (change your religion and give up liquor or be beheaded).

COPTIC CHRISTIAN (Egypt/Ethiopia)Some sects believe the sacred "green herb of the field" in the Bible ("I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more." Ezekiel 34:29) and the Biblical secret incenses, sweet incenses, and anointing oils to be Marijuana.

The BANTUS (Africa) had secret Dagga Cults,* societies which restricted Marijuana use to the ruling men. The Pygmies, Zulus, and Hottentots all found it an indispensable medication for cramps, epilepsy, and gout, and as a religious sacrament.
*Their "Dagga" cults believed Holy Marijuana was brought to earth by the Gods, in particular from the "Two Dog Star" system that we call Sirius A and B. "Dagga" literally means "cannabis." (Marijuana) Interestingly, the surviving Indo-European word for the plant can also be read as "canna," "reed" and "bi," "two," as well as 'canna,' as in canine; and 'bis,' meaning two (bi) ? "Two Dogs."

The RASTAFARIANS (Jamaica and elsewhere) are a contemporary religious group that uses "ganja" as its sacred sacrament to communicate with God (Jah).


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: NOT Spiritual? [Re: kbilly]
    #3275984 - 10/25/04 06:13 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

It doesn't matter if a few hundred people want to call chronic marijuana use a religion. You are probably refering to Rastafarians, who typically use marijuana daily. This is no more spiritual than staying drunk all of the time, and it is terrible for one's respiratory health. It is curious that Rastafarians do not recieve a legal exemption for marijuana like the Native American Church does for Peyote...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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the strange [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3276499 - 10/25/04 08:29 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Facing the strange is something a child does as it struggles with the universe, learning and playing and suffering and loving.
when you are stoned you face the strange and relive some of the familiar strange.
Then, on the other hand, the meditation masters immerse in the moment suspending habit and facing the strange.
Those who can do it without drugs have consistent perspective on this "being as a child".

On drugs that resonance is clear. (habit is suspended, one faces the strange)
Coming off the drug effect, however, one re-enters the habits grabbing at souvenirs, largely unable to decipher which are pertinent and which are just vacuous.

learning to meditate and thus obtain a more consistent perspective provides way less embarassment when it comes to explaining the souvenirs that you have grabbed.

one learns to let go.


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Offlinekbilly
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Re: the strange [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3278388 - 10/26/04 07:27 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

did you even read my post?
this thread is about why there is a relation between easterm relgion and dope, and as my last point shows many eastern religions have their very existence due to the fact that mystics used dope for spiritual purposes.

"It doesn't matter if a few hundred people want to call chronic marijuana use a religion" uhm? 700 000 rastafarians thats 7000 few hundreds. and that just the rastas.

in africa most of the native religions originate from some form of drug use very often dope.

HINDUISM (India) The God Shiva is said "to have brought Marijuana from the Himalayas for human enjoyment and enlightenment.

to say that dope has no spiritual value is just bullshit, maybe for you but doesnt but does it have to have none for everybody else.

the idea that your so right and that everybody else has to be wrong tells me you know shit about spirituality anyway, so how would you know.


Edited by kbilly (10/26/04 07:40 AM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: NOT Spiritual? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3278850 - 10/26/04 11:50 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
It is curious that Rastafarians do not recieve a legal exemption for marijuana like the Native American Church does for Peyote...




No it isn't. Peyote has been a sacrament of certain Native American tribes for thousands of years, and not allowing them to partake in it is a direct violation of their right to practice their religion. It treads on their culture, and as the American government has done exactly that (including, of course, killing the majority of them and herding the rest of them in), it is a touchy subject nowadays. And as peyote doesn't do much of any harm and isn't in the position to be widely distributed or profited from, the government really doesn't lose anything by allowing these certain Native Americans to cultivate and use peyote, and it looks better for allowing them to continue their culture and traditions. Not only that, but peyote is also very effective at treating alcoholism in said Native Americans...

Rastafarians, however, have no real presence in America. There isn't as many, and they don't have the history that Native Americans do. Not only that, but the government doesn't look bad to the majority of voters for not allowing them to smoke dope. etc. etc. etc....I don't know much about Rastafarianism, so what I just said is just what I would imagine to be why... :grin:

Anyways, the reasons why one religion is allowed their sacrament of choice and the other isn't doesn't really have anything to do with the sacrament itself, in the context of how "effective" or "spiritual" the sacrament is. If that is what you were intending with your quoted statement above, I think you need to think about it for awhile.

But ja, I don't recommend staying stoned all the time, but I also don't recommend staying sober all the time. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: NOT Spiritual? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3279490 - 10/26/04 02:55 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Who are you, God? How can you tell me what is spiritual?


--------------------
You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


Edited by sheister (10/26/04 02:55 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: NOT Spiritual? [Re: NariusFractal]
    #3279672 - 10/26/04 03:43 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I can't believe it you nailed it exactly!!!! I am not just God, but God Almighty in my universe!!! No, I only express MY OPINION which is based on my exprience...your mileage may vary. I am not asking for agreement here so chill out.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: NOT Spiritual? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3281988 - 10/27/04 12:10 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

the bashing of other's beliefs and spirituality is not a good thing


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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