MarkostheGnostic said:

No arguement from me on this score. Madonna-Esther is a pet peeve. Down here in Miami, I've had middle school kids who belong to the Kabbalah Center and Madonna has shown up there to 'wow' the members, I suppose. Here is an individual whom I intuitively have an aversion to, despite the fact that I know that in the flesh I could just as easily be seduced by her charms if she wanted to appear charming. Perhaps that's one of the reasons I don't like her.

She has adorned her ears with crucifix earings (the ears being peripheral to the 'mandala' of the body - the crucific should be worn over the Heart to represent one's 'Center' not as a mere ornament at the periphery of the physical self). She has offended Hindus with her henna work and ingenuineness. I personally believe that her take on Kabbalism is to 'storm Heaven,' and circumvent her Gentile awareness of Christ by appropriating a mystical Truth originating with esoteric Jews. This may have philosophical validity for Jews themselves (of which I am one by birth) whose religious traditions pre-exist the historical Jesus, but it is a profanation inasmuch as I believe that Madonna thinks that she can appropriate Transcendental Truth while yet being the multi-millionaire 'bi**h' diva who now portrays herself as maternal, while disavowing her life of excess.

In a nutshell, she is like the Biblical Whore of Babylon (much more than anyone Aleister Crowley knew of), adorning her body, speech and mind with the Sacred traditions of humankind. I don't care a bit what the media or the cultic Kabbalah Center Jews say about her, she is a powerful example of demonic manifestation to me - worldliness that has grown bored. Madonna-Esther (Esther, from the Old Testament Queen - wife of King Ahashuerus who single-handedly prevented an ancient slaughter of the Jews and had the ancient Hitler-character named Hamen, hanged. Self-proclaimed Jewish savioress Madonna-Esther). She reminds me of a rich, spoiled Jewish acquaintance of mine in college who was so bored that his only social thrill was to try to seduce his friends' girlfriends. He seemed to be in love with his mother and would show her photo, and his wealthy parents had a larger-than-life winged fallen angel statue in their backyard. He even managed to get me to lie for him once, to get free concert tickets (which didn't work, but more importantly, he got me to go against my moral nature). At our last conversation, he asked me point blank: "Do you think I bring the demons?" I answered, "Yes, I believe that you do." He walked away, I never saw him again. Madonna reminds me of that guy in spiritual ways - like the fallen angels called Watchers in the books of Enoch who seduce humans.

But I digress. We can borrow, respectfully, from the Wisdom that rises like cream, to the top of other religions and philosophies - the best of the best, while maintaining the integrity of who we are. Humility is the important stance to assume, and humility precludes any type of arrogance, like assuming an exalted name or title. Who does not see this? How is it that so many people are so blind or asleep in the real matrix?

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And you've got me pegged as a J type? 

I think that Madonna had a Catholic background and was traumatized by original sin, that sin was some thing that was a part of her and would always be with her for the rest of her life,  which scared her and a struck a feeling of guilt in her all the time.  I think she chose the name Madonna to rebel, she was going to be a sexually liberated being and was no longer gonna take shit from the sick and twisted religion that fucked with her self confidence and maybe finally give 'em a little hell back in exchange.

Anyways, I remember being 9yo and going to the roller rink and listening to/watching music videos of Madonna singing Like a Prayer, w/ lyrics like "When you call my name, It's like a little prayer, I'm down on my knees, I wanna take you there."  Seemed to me she was saying pleasing her man was like pleasing God and she loved giving head, she loved pleasure others (you're always the first to receive pleasure when you really do imho, as your love was the source) and no guilt.....

As for the Kaballah, how often do we see Scott Pelley mention the Kaballah?  Never.  So basically she introduced hundreds of million Americans to even thinking the word Kaballah, it's like Quinten Tarantino turning the world on to the gab ball in Pulp Fiction.  In no way was Madonna even cable of turning the Kaballah into a fad.  Yanno, Oprah interviewed both Ram Dass and Eckahrt Tolle, being what, the wealthiest woman in America (believe she owns her own island?)  Do I really give a shit about  Madonna or Oprah? Not really, no.... but I wish them the best on their path towards Enlightenment.  And they did accelerate information to people whose lives are so sad that they spend it watching daytime programming or watch shows about idolizing celebrities .

UnenlightenedOne said:

Why does there seem to be such an obsession here with eastern philosophies?

Seek out your ancestors instead of another person's ancestors.

Your own heritage will be much more relevantto your culture/way of life than another heritage which was developed under another culture and way of life.In "translation" much meaning is lost.

One should not really intrude upon another's heritage.It is akin to stealing and many people feel that way.Often times it is also not respected properly and taken lightly.

Does anyone elsehave an opinion about this?

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Yes, I have an opinion if you're asking. You are being very provincial, parochial, and exclusivist - the opposite of global and universal. You are asking that people identify with a limited socio-cultural role instead of seeking a philosophical system that facilitates the expansion of one's identity to cosmic proportions. I do not hail from a tradition of ancestor-worship, but if I did, I would have taken leave of it long ago. In fact, I DID take leave of the cultural religion of my parents - Reform Judaism. I rebelled against the dry cultural Judaism that neither of my parents were very much into. My mother remained an atheist it seems til her death, my father was a Freemason and was more interested in living the myth of Hiram the Builder by helping to build a new synagogue in our home town (and receiving ego-enhancement from it). I rebelled by age 12, flunking my 3rd year of Hebrew school and was never a Bar Mitzvah (Son of the Blessings). That alienated me from my father for life.

Then, after changing my major from biology (pre-med in those days) to philosophy, I took catechism and Catholic baptism in my quest for spirituality. I had already taken a lot of acid, and had been studying/practicing Hindu and Buddhist yogas or a few years. I had visited several Hindu and Sufi teachers and some Catholic monks, inquiring about monastic life. I eventually took a two year Masters of Theological Studies degree at the United Methodist seminary at Drew University. I was a Jewish Christian more than a Messianic Jew. But then I went and wrote an essentially Tibetan Buddhist doctoral dissertation in the Department of Human Development of U. of MD for a Ph.D. degree. I returned to the study of Kabbalistic Judaism, and whereas I do light Shabbos (Sabbath) candles on Friday evenings at sundown, I am considered an apostate to Judaism by my adherence to the teachings attributed to Iesous in the New Testament, and I am considered to be heretical from a strictly Christian mainstream theology whether Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox. So I do not fit into anyone's tradition-bound cubby-hole, yet I live a as virtuous a life as a philosophically-oriented person can in the 21st century, informed by a plethora of religious and philosophical schools and traditions.

Psychologically, from a Jungian perspective, I am living a "symbolic life" and Individuating. It can definitely appear to be idiosyncratic because Individuation in the Jungian school runs parallel with the theories of Abraham Maslow with regard to Self-Actualization. In order to Self-Actualize oneself, one needs to transcend one's "Belongingness Needs" which are often manifested as being an obedient servant in some particular congregation and tradition, accepting the doctrines and dogmas without question as a sign of one's faith. Baloney! The mystics of every faith have been outsiders in a radical way. They left the fold through experiences which set them apart from the mainstream. Where it stands today, I have only awkward, idiosyncratic descriptions of my faith-stance, like Jewish-Christian Entheogenic Gnostic. Ridiculous. My faith is better left unarticulated to others because anyone who seeks to cubby-hole people are just going to dismiss me as a weirdo right from my description. Most people will assume something from my blue-gray eyes (and onetime blonde hair), or from my Jewish surname anyway. You know that word assume - when we assume, we make an ass out of u and me.

UnenlightenedOne said:

Why does there seem to be such an obsession here with eastern philosophies?

Seek out your ancestors instead of another person's ancestors.

Your own heritage will be much more relevantto your culture/way of life than another heritage which was developed under another culture and way of life.In "translation" much meaning is lost.

One should not really intrude upon another's heritage.It is akin to stealing and many people feel that way.Often times it is also not respected properly and taken lightly.

Does anyone elsehave an opinion about this?

---

UnenlightenedOne said:

Why does there seem to be such an obsession here with eastern philosophies?

Seek out your ancestors instead of another person's ancestors.

Your own heritage will be much more relevantto your culture/way of life than another heritage which was developed under another culture and way of life.In "translation" much meaning is lost.

One should not really intrude upon another's heritage.It is akin to stealing and many people feel that way.Often times it is also not respected properly and taken lightly.

Does anyone elsehave an opinion about this?

---

Icelander said:

Who cares about one's heritage?  It's better to follow your instincts imo. It's hard to compare Taoism and Christianity.

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I agree fully... First I wasn't raised with religion, I was a kid from the '80s who played video games at the arcade and listened to music.  My mother was a Catholic and had nothing but negative memories first by how mean the nuns were in her school, how they slapped her hands with a ruler when she played the wrong notes on the piano and was always anxious when having to perform and secondly snubbed when she divorced my irresponsible, narcissistic father.  Why would I want any part of that?

Personally I've found mostly Hindu exercises work for me, including pranayama, mantra, and asanas.  With a mix of psychedelics and these practices I started getting results that I was looking for.  That doesn't mean that I buy into all of the belief system.    The idea that beings are lined up waiting on the astral plane and the number one thing they want to be is human so they can do the work they need to do to go "Home", and that we need more mothers to produce so that these beings on another plane can get free is just dreadful to me.  Any spiritual tradition reveals some truths and hides others imho, and it's up to you to suss out what is useful and what is .

zzripz said:

I am gay but NEVER got obsessed with these tinny icons like Madonna and Kylie. they are utterly superficial. M's voice is...pathetic. Worse even than her acting and that's saying something. But see they--the Illuminati producers wid-de-moneyyy PR an image
Now I LOVED this diva and would get well into dancing to this lol

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Ok, I take that back, once I was on some nice, clean MDMA and was listening to some Donna Summer "I Feel Love" and it was spacey, her voice, the lyrics, and her body moved to the music in a way that blew me away,

Left my heart in San Francisco, listening to some motherfuckin' disco .

Lakefingers said:

Both in childhood and adulthood I've noticed that many parents have very negative views of schooling, other children, other parents, people in general. Frequent statements: "kids are horrible," "kids are mean," "people are mean," "people are cruel." Naturally, you have assume that the adults who say these things chose to express their own sadism by getting children to put through this, then by torturing their children with the reminder that they knew it would be like that all along.

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UnenlightenedOne said:

Why does there seem to be such an obsession here with eastern philosophies?

Seek out your ancestors instead of another person's ancestors.

Your own heritage will be much more relevantto your culture/way of life than another heritage which was developed under another culture and way of life.In "translation" much meaning is lost.

One should not really intrude upon another's heritage.It is akin to stealing and many people feel that way.Often times it is also not respected properly and taken lightly.

Does anyone elsehave an opinion about this?

---