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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3267757 - 10/23/04 02:37 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

"for myself, for a brief time, being stoned on cannabis showed me that the ego-driven, anxiety-ridden mentality of American consumerism that I grew up incould be temporarily suspended."

This is what my first LSD trip did for me. I smoked plenty of grass in my teens and very early 20s, but to tell the truth it just made me hungry...then sleepy. I found nothing profound in it. It has been over 15 years since the last time I tried. So many of the guys (who were all great guys) I grew up with fell into the non-productive pattern of staying stoned, not working, lots of minor run-ins with the police for selling softcore drugs, and just being generally unambitious burnouts. A few I have spoken with the last few years expressed regret that they mispent their youth in such a passive manner. I lost over a decade to alcohol and I know what casual substance abuse can do. I recovered, but many old stoners I know (and have known) seem to have permenantly damaged their motivation for life. I feel the spirit with me at all times...I don't need a drug to feel this. I have tried to use entheogens to enhance my life, and my use is about 3 times a year these days. These are well planned events that are designed to maximize the experience. Psychedelics are self limiting, but marijuana allows one to stay stoned 24-7. This is bound to have chronic results.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibletak
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3268147 - 10/23/04 04:27 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Well said!


--------------------
The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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OfflineCrazyShroomMan
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: tak]
    #3268179 - 10/23/04 04:37 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I beg to differ.  :stoned: :rasta: :thumbup:


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3268476 - 10/23/04 06:06 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

The hippy New Age era in the 60's found personal truths through the use of drugs and upon reading Buddhist/Taoist texts found out that others have found the same deconditioned truths. The difference was the medium in receiving the message. Drugs are not the way to enlightenment but they can help you decondition your mind which can show you the Way.

Ever since hearing about the Tao when I was 12 from a tape I found on the ground, I started very early seeking peace within my mind.

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
This is what my first LSD trip did for me. I smoked plenty of grass in my teens and very early 20s, but to tell the truth it just made me hungry...then sleepy. I found nothing profound in it. It has been over 15 years since the last time I tried. So many of the guys (who were all great guys) I grew up with fell into the non-productive pattern of staying stoned, not working, lots of minor run-ins with the police for selling softcore drugs, and just being generally unambitious burnouts. A few I have spoken with the last few years expressed regret that they mispent their youth in such a passive manner. I lost over a decade to alcohol and I know what casual substance abuse can do. I recovered, but many old stoners I know (and have known) seem to have permenantly damaged their motivation for life. I feel the spirit with me at all times...I don't need a drug to feel this. I have tried to use entheogens to enhance my life, and my use is about 3 times a year these days. These are well planned events that are designed to maximize the experience. Psychedelics are self limiting, but marijuana allows one to stay stoned 24-7. This is bound to have chronic results.




I'm struggling with this thought, Hue. I no longer smoke marijuana but I did for a good 4 years, constantly. It was merely a filler for a horrible high-school induced depression. I dont care passionately for anything anymore, but I am responsible and I make sure of that. I find it incredibly hard to feel joy, sorrow, or anything upon completing tasks and I get no satisfaction from what I accomplish. Its like my mind is always in the Void...I'm very focused at what I am doing but nothing inspires emotions from me. I dont know if this is good or bad but I cannot relate to anyone because of it.

Anyone I ask for help cannot help me as they dont see the problem, hell I dont see it myself, but it apparent in the quality of my relationships with others.

Anyone have any ideas?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: psyka]
    #3268496 - 10/23/04 06:13 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think 4 years of marijuana use is "chronic". My wife suffers from depression off and on and it sounds like you have it. Depression tends to rob one of satisfaction.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Anonymous

Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3268506 - 10/23/04 06:15 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

the "damaged motivation" thing is a stereotype. there are many, many more people who use or have used marijuana responsibly over time and with moderation and who are hard working, tax paying, productive members of society... there are many more of these than there are chronic mj users who become demotivated and fall out of the world.

alcoholism is a much bigger beast imo. i've never known anyone who's died from chronic mj smoking.

neither are much of a "spiritual path" tho, in themselves.


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3268542 - 10/23/04 06:25 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not depressed, though. I'm never sad or angry. I was diagnosed with chronic depression and bipolar disorder. Perhaps I dont really understand what depression is?


Edited by psyka (10/23/04 06:26 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: ]
    #3268562 - 10/23/04 06:31 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

"used marijuana responsibly over time and with moderation"

I did not say moderate users would suffer this problem. I was discussing chronic use. I also realize that demotivated people are attracted to drugs. I think that marijuana can be used responsibly as can alcohol. I am countering the argument I see constantly on this forum that states:
A: Marijuana users are inherantly more spiritual than others.
B: Chronic marijuana use is healthy and a "party" oriented lifestyle=spiritual lifestyle.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: psyka]
    #3268573 - 10/23/04 06:33 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

The symptoms you describe are symptoms of depression. The effects are not alway evidenced by feeling sad, sometimes a lack of feeling indicates it. If you have been diagnosed with it get treated, by all means, don't waste your time as life is too short to go around feeling dead already. Many allow pride to interfere with getting help and this is ridiculous. My brother refused treatment for schizophrenia because he did not like the stigma of being "crazy". It is only an illness like the flu. After treatment he was much happier.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Ped]
    #3268632 - 10/23/04 06:45 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

You jumped the gun, Ped. Before we can ask "Why are they related?", one must ask, "Are they related?"


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3268642 - 10/23/04 06:46 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

thank you for replying to my post.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3268712 - 10/23/04 07:06 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

be scared

and visit your doctor immediately


--------------------



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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: deff]
    #3268737 - 10/23/04 07:11 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

What are you referencing? If you disagree then say so. Leaving cryptic comments communicates little.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3268799 - 10/23/04 07:30 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Deff is the master of the koan...  :smile:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Swami]
    #3269354 - 10/23/04 11:03 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

My ass.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinekbilly
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3270349 - 10/24/04 04:19 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

the connection is that religions like hinduism have their roots in mysticism stemming from drug use, in a way these religions are built on the religious experience facilitated by the drug or other altered states of mind - fasting etc. so its quite natural that there is a perceived connection because there is.

good old indian skunk.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: kbilly]
    #3270416 - 10/24/04 04:44 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

That means nothing. Cannabis and hashish were popular in the ancient mid-east and parts of Africa. They hardly adopted Eastern thinking because of a flower. A seemingly regional correlation is not indicative of a causal link.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineBBin
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Ped]
    #3270763 - 10/24/04 08:44 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Well, simply said, because one validates the experiences gained from the other.
From my perspective, people who have had profound psychedelic experiences often need to reevaluate a lot of what they previously took for granted about themselves and the world. And in that state of mind, people look for grounding, for some kind of validity to their experiences and subsequent thoughts, insights and uncertainties.
Within the western thoughtworld and heritage there is very little that can serve this purpose. Perhaps a few obscure philosophers, maybe a fantasy writer or two, some esoteric mathematics and new age physics, and very little else.

Many psychedelic experiences gave me insights into myself and the world of perceptions outside of myself which i later found and recognised in many eastern philosophies. Its one thing to read about wisdom, its another to recognise what is written from a background of personal experience. They validated my own experiences and expanded on them.

Personally, i think that the main connection here is experience. Psychedelics have the ability to bring a person to states of mind which are described in eastern philosophies (..i must underline here that i think it rather bland to generalise the multitude of traditions into one common 'eastern philosophies' denomenator..) and even though in the end, psychedelics are no 'shortcut' they definatly can function as a light along the path, or better, road signs pointing out where to go, and equally as important, where not to go.
If you seperate both the escapism and hedonism from psychedelics, whats left is a conscious search into mind and awareness. Into growing into a higher consciousness and ultimate awakening, which is arguably a common focus in both the psychedelic movement and many eastern traditions.


--------------------
Thought is born blind but Mind knows what is Seeing


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: kbilly]
    #3270915 - 10/24/04 11:12 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Smoking marijuana is in no way spiritual. That is like saying I had a religious experience after drinking a twelve pack of Budweiser. Both experiences are pleasant, but lack depth. Partying is not spiritual. Marijuana is also NOT a psychedelic.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Eastern Thought & Dope Smoking: Why are they related? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3270925 - 10/24/04 11:22 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

While marijuana is inert in and of itself, the act of consuming it brings whole new meanings to the flower.

Intent shapes reaction (under certain conditions :wink:). Using marijuana to escape from a reality one is conditioned into, will usually do just that. Using marijuana to party will usually be fun. Using marijuana to meditate can often be verrry deep. Quite a versatile little plant :smile:

But again, the plant is neutral in all of these situations. The person, with the help of the plant's consumption effects, is the one actually manifesting these changes. The same person, without smoking the pot, would probably still strive towards these things. Whether or not the pot helps them, is completely dependant upon the person to determine. :smile:

With that said, marijuana to me is a great relaxing passtime, and often forces me into unexpected and very deep meditative mindsets. However, the overall 'burn out' feel to using it a lot does not make up for these pleasurable effects, and so I use it sparingly :smile:


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