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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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ahem. shall we try to save the world?
    #2248353 - 01/17/04 02:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

a while ago i tried to generate some momentum regarding the very possible collapse of ecological systems on earth leading to the inability of said earth to sustain life (humanities included of course)
and recieved fairly lukewarm responses. It seems most people still do not (want to?) believe that this is not only a possibily, but even a probability, even perhaps an empirical FACT, and not only that but it is a fact that we will see proved or disproved within OUR OWN LIFETIMES. My topic this time is adressed to those who do realise that the end of this brilliant jewel of space may be near indeed (forgive me nauseating poetics, i mean EARTH) and is intended to generate some discussion as to what we, the youth (and indeed the not so youthfull who may read this) can or have done to combat or postpone this catastrophe.

-Yesterday a teenager sent me an email letter in which he said, "I feel cheated that it's all UP TO ME. By being in the younger generation, I have to save the world before I can even begin to think of building a life for myself, or there will be nothing to build my life on."

"Nowadays it means something different.

Nowadays it means something like this. My generation and my parents' generation and their parents' have really screwed things up here, and that's no joke. I can't even bring myself to look at the latest WorldWatch Institute estimate of how much time we have left to turn this around before we head down a slide from which no recovery is possible. It was 40 years the last time I DID have the nerve to look, and that was about ten years ago.

What does this figure mean? It doesn't mean human extinction in forty years. It means we have 40 years to find a new path for ourselves, and if we let those 40 years go to waste and just go on the way we are, the momentum that is carrying us forward to extinction will be too great to overcome. So that date is not the end of it all, it's just the point of no return.Irreversible

So when people tell you now that it's all up to you, they really mean "If you can't find what we were unable to find and our parents were unable to find and their parents were unable to find (which is another way for us to go), then you may very well live to see the extinction of the human race."

now im not asking for someone on this board to post here and say 'listen buddy this 'the sky is falling' stuff is crap, the world isnt going to end because of fuel cell technology that will replace all fossil fuels in 20 years or something along those lines.

Im not asking for someone to say 'i figured it out! all we have to do to counteract centuries of enviromental decay is yadda yadda yadda (although that would be really sweet)

what i am asking for is what ideas you may have, that are realistic, immediatly attainable and contribute in whatever way to the long term goal of saving this planet. im not saying what form of energy can replace fossil fuels, or what new global economic system will counteract the rape of the world. im looking more for things like how can we spread awareness? how can we decrease our household energy consumption rates? or even just what are some online communities that have a group of like minded people?

ANYTHING because regardless of the pinpoint accuracy of the world watch institutes estimeates, i believe that we are and have long been on a path of self annihilation, and that we are taking the natural world down with us, and i also believe that regardless of weather this burden should lay on our shoulders alone, we must at least strive to take up some of the weight. No more wasting time. No more ignoring the problem, or being overwhelmed by its magnitude. I want to see some effort, some attempt however insignificant it may seem that will make me believe that there is SOMETHING we can do. :sun:

check out this link to get the ball rolling
http://ishmael.com/Education/Writings/houston_youth.shtml
(thanks johnb you rock)


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2248360 - 01/17/04 02:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Save the World? -yawn- Eh...maybe later.


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2248374 - 01/17/04 02:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've been trying to save the world for thousands of years.  At some point, you have to respect free will and realize that the world does not want (or even require) saving. 

but go ahead though.  start a revolution.  two hundred or two thousand years later, you will be back, and everything will be the same.  but dont take my word.  try it yourself :smile:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2248380 - 01/17/04 02:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

im a bit confused by your respons dr.j ... first of all, "we must realize that the world does not want or even require saving" what exactly do you mean by this? the world requires saving in as much as if we dont save it, we will have destroyed it... maybe im not getting you here?
"go ahead start a revolution, in 2000 years you will be back and everything will be the same" im not trying to start a revolution. Im trying to get some simple, honest responses about how we as families, individuals and a society can start to curb our destructive way of life. and are you talking about reincarnation here or what? whats all this about me coming back in 2000 years? and about you trying to save the world for thousands of years? im genuinely intrigued about weather this is nonsense or you have something to say about this topic  :oogle:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2248400 - 01/17/04 03:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

We cannot destroy the Earth, nor can we destroy Life. In that aspect, no, the Earth does not require our saving.

However we can destroy ourselves and definately are on the path to doing so.

Life, in some form, will go on with or without us. Life will adapt.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: trendal]
    #2248403 - 01/17/04 03:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Of course, this is not to say that we should not try to save ourselves!

WE MOST DEFINATELY SHOULD BE AT LEAST TRYING TO SAVE THE HUMAN RACE FROM EXTINCTION!


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2248411 - 01/17/04 03:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

most of our problems stem from the very essence of our being. Therefore, they arent really problems in that they dont keep us from our purpose, which is to be humans. Humans fuck shit up. get used to it.

sure, we could all be less destructive to our environment, but that would greatly inhibit our autonomy in how we interact with our environment. That, I think, would be losing the substance by grasping at the shadow. We are free to make a choice between good and evil. that, and nothing more, is our purpose. We teach god as much as he teaches us.

so what if we destroy earth, and ourselves. Do you think that in the entirety of the universe, this planet is the only thing that is alive? And if it is, why is life necessarily good then? Maybe we are just mold on god's marble collection. Maybe, from a higher perspective, we shouldnt be here. just food for thought.

I'm not going to go into my own personal (and highly subjective) experiences with reincarnation. Let me just say that i've been here awhile and have learned that some things never change, and thats OK. The important thing is the struggle, not the change.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2248454 - 01/17/04 03:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"Maybe we are just mold on god's marble collection" i absolutely love this quote dr.j . And ive had similar thoughts myself. I mean what is it thats so bad about the loss of humanity? as a species we have eliminated thousands of glorius animal and plant species. That being the case from a higher perspective , from the perspective of someone who loves life itself more than humanity, our extinction would be the best thing that could happen to the world, and i fully realise that. All people must die, it is nothing to be feared. so why not all die at the same time? after all, when a parasite drains too much from its host, then there is not choice but for the parasite to die. The thing is the parasite is taking its host down with it. the thing is the manner in which we our conducting our suicide is destroying this world with us, and for whatever reason that thought is unpleasant to me. As for trendal "We cannot destroy the Earth, nor can we destroy Life." in fact we can do this. THere is a certain level of tension at which point life can no longer be sustained on this planet beyond the microscopic/single cellular level, and perhaps even that. There is a reason why earth is the only known planet that harbours life, oRganic material. Because enviromental conditions here make it possible, an incredibly complex yet fragile balance exists where numerous enviromental systems interact and interplay, feeding off each other in such a way that life is sustained from year to year, century to century. THe world watch institute claims that our current course of activity will cause the collaps of first one and then more of those systems, which will in turn cause the collapse of other systems to the point that the balance is so disrupted as to bring to an end the whole drama of life on earth.

But maybe even caring about humanity, about earth, about life itself is just showing the narrowness of our view, perhaps it is just another form of egocentrism. That is, "i am the epitome of creation, and i live, therefore life is important"

does it really matter if we get hit by a car tommorow or die from enviromental poisoning in 30 years? i dont rightly know, but ill think about it


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OfflineFrog
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2248474 - 01/17/04 03:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know if just talking about it on the internet, or with like-minded people, will do any good.

I also agree with DoctorJ that maybe we can't save the world, or maybe the world doesn't want to be saved.

This is where I think I believe in determinism, or fatalism, or whatever, that what is going to happen will happen, regardless of what we try to do about it in advance.

I know I'm going to take some heat over this, but I'm willing to have my mind changed.

I also believe that we each have a job to do here. I am here to be an attorney, not to save the world. I can't do everything.

But if someone else has a job that requires saving the world, and I am informed of something I could do while I'm doing my job, that would help, I'll do it, but I don't think it's my primary job.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2248509 - 01/17/04 04:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

  >fuel cell technology that will replace all fossil fuels in 20 years or something along those lines.

The technology probably could of been here 50 years ago but thoes greedy bastard oil barrons (USA) :wink: dont want cheap enviromentaly friendly alternative power simply beacues there is no money in it.

Even if you came up with a 100% efficient power source that cost nothing to build and run and could esaily power the world tommorrow, do you think you would live long. some one would want you dead.

The way the world is geared up to day is FU$K the future just live life for today by the time things get realy screwed up I will be dead anyway, so why should i care.
I just hope thoes cunts are reborn in enough tme to feel the full front of the shit they caused.

Anyway its a nice Idea but the human race is gona die out or a very large number of us will and hopefully its only the sane that survive.


--------------------
Fighting the man the best way I can.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: trendal]
    #2248654 - 01/17/04 05:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

However we can destroy ourselves and definately are on the path to doing so.

If that were a truth and not a supposition, then the population of mankind should be nearing extinction (a la the elephant) or at least rapidly decreasing rather than being at an all-time high.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami]
    #2248666 - 01/17/04 05:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know man. elephants don't have nuclear weapons.
I agree it would be hard to actually make the human species completely extinct, even if all nukes were detonated.

but we could easily destroy human civilization


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2248753 - 01/17/04 05:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"There is a certain level of tension at which point life can no longer be sustained on this planet beyond the microscopic/single cellular level, and perhaps even that."

There is a flaw in thinking that this is the "destruction of earth".. on the contrary, after we do this "horrible act", we will disappear. This gives the earth a healing period, after which it may VERY WELL lead to some OTHER form of life to take our place.

(Is this stuff sounding farmiliar? Think dinosaurs...)

The point I'm making is, maybe with these "cycles" things work in, SOMETHING has to lead to the next "ice age". I wouldn't be surprised if it's going to be humankind's "destruction path" if you will.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2248760 - 01/17/04 06:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

(Is this stuff sounding farmiliar? Think dinosaurs...)

And we haven't even been around a QUARTER of the time that dinosaurs were around this planet for. :crazy:


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2248787 - 01/17/04 06:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well my immediate goals are to spread the word of love and diversity to all that will hear, and I am starting work on a energy device using magnet discs and a generator which we hope to develop into a rough draft for a portable free energy device. spark the revolution wherever you can at the moment.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Shroomism]
    #2248790 - 01/17/04 06:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

In the meantime I am sticking with batteries... :oogle:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami]
    #2248793 - 01/17/04 06:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Energizer..or..Duracell?


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2248801 - 01/17/04 06:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

At the very least, we should try to stop destroying the environment faster than it can recover.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami]
    #2248803 - 01/17/04 06:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You should help me. We could save the world.


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Shroomism]
    #2248811 - 01/17/04 06:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

im down with saving the world! :-)


--------------------
Grumpy Old Man.


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