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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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ahem. shall we try to save the world? * 1
    #2248353 - 01/17/04 12:40 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

a while ago i tried to generate some momentum regarding the very possible collapse of ecological systems on earth leading to the inability of said earth to sustain life (humanities included of course)
and recieved fairly lukewarm responses. It seems most people still do not (want to?) believe that this is not only a possibily, but even a probability, even perhaps an empirical FACT, and not only that but it is a fact that we will see proved or disproved within OUR OWN LIFETIMES. My topic this time is adressed to those who do realise that the end of this brilliant jewel of space may be near indeed (forgive me nauseating poetics, i mean EARTH) and is intended to generate some discussion as to what we, the youth (and indeed the not so youthfull who may read this) can or have done to combat or postpone this catastrophe.

-Yesterday a teenager sent me an email letter in which he said, "I feel cheated that it's all UP TO ME. By being in the younger generation, I have to save the world before I can even begin to think of building a life for myself, or there will be nothing to build my life on."

"Nowadays it means something different.

Nowadays it means something like this. My generation and my parents' generation and their parents' have really screwed things up here, and that's no joke. I can't even bring myself to look at the latest WorldWatch Institute estimate of how much time we have left to turn this around before we head down a slide from which no recovery is possible. It was 40 years the last time I DID have the nerve to look, and that was about ten years ago.

What does this figure mean? It doesn't mean human extinction in forty years. It means we have 40 years to find a new path for ourselves, and if we let those 40 years go to waste and just go on the way we are, the momentum that is carrying us forward to extinction will be too great to overcome. So that date is not the end of it all, it's just the point of no return.Irreversible

So when people tell you now that it's all up to you, they really mean "If you can't find what we were unable to find and our parents were unable to find and their parents were unable to find (which is another way for us to go), then you may very well live to see the extinction of the human race."

now im not asking for someone on this board to post here and say 'listen buddy this 'the sky is falling' stuff is crap, the world isnt going to end because of fuel cell technology that will replace all fossil fuels in 20 years or something along those lines.

Im not asking for someone to say 'i figured it out! all we have to do to counteract centuries of enviromental decay is yadda yadda yadda (although that would be really sweet)

what i am asking for is what ideas you may have, that are realistic, immediatly attainable and contribute in whatever way to the long term goal of saving this planet. im not saying what form of energy can replace fossil fuels, or what new global economic system will counteract the rape of the world. im looking more for things like how can we spread awareness? how can we decrease our household energy consumption rates? or even just what are some online communities that have a group of like minded people?

ANYTHING because regardless of the pinpoint accuracy of the world watch institutes estimeates, i believe that we are and have long been on a path of self annihilation, and that we are taking the natural world down with us, and i also believe that regardless of weather this burden should lay on our shoulders alone, we must at least strive to take up some of the weight. No more wasting time. No more ignoring the problem, or being overwhelmed by its magnitude. I want to see some effort, some attempt however insignificant it may seem that will make me believe that there is SOMETHING we can do. :sun:

check out this link to get the ball rolling
http://ishmael.com/Education/Writings/houston_youth.shtml
(thanks johnb you rock)

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS] * 1
    #2248360 - 01/17/04 12:42 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Save the World? -yawn- Eh...maybe later.


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS] * 1
    #2248374 - 01/17/04 12:51 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I've been trying to save the world for thousands of years.  At some point, you have to respect free will and realize that the world does not want (or even require) saving. 

but go ahead though.  start a revolution.  two hundred or two thousand years later, you will be back, and everything will be the same.  but dont take my word.  try it yourself :smile:

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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: DoctorJ] * 1
    #2248380 - 01/17/04 12:55 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

im a bit confused by your respons dr.j ... first of all, "we must realize that the world does not want or even require saving" what exactly do you mean by this? the world requires saving in as much as if we dont save it, we will have destroyed it... maybe im not getting you here?
"go ahead start a revolution, in 2000 years you will be back and everything will be the same" im not trying to start a revolution. Im trying to get some simple, honest responses about how we as families, individuals and a society can start to curb our destructive way of life. and are you talking about reincarnation here or what? whats all this about me coming back in 2000 years? and about you trying to save the world for thousands of years? im genuinely intrigued about weather this is nonsense or you have something to say about this topic  :oogle:

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS] * 1
    #2248400 - 01/17/04 01:05 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

We cannot destroy the Earth, nor can we destroy Life. In that aspect, no, the Earth does not require our saving.

However we can destroy ourselves and definately are on the path to doing so.

Life, in some form, will go on with or without us. Life will adapt.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: trendal] * 1
    #2248403 - 01/17/04 01:06 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Of course, this is not to say that we should not try to save ourselves!

WE MOST DEFINATELY SHOULD BE AT LEAST TRYING TO SAVE THE HUMAN RACE FROM EXTINCTION!


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS] * 1
    #2248411 - 01/17/04 01:11 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

most of our problems stem from the very essence of our being. Therefore, they arent really problems in that they dont keep us from our purpose, which is to be humans. Humans fuck shit up. get used to it.

sure, we could all be less destructive to our environment, but that would greatly inhibit our autonomy in how we interact with our environment. That, I think, would be losing the substance by grasping at the shadow. We are free to make a choice between good and evil. that, and nothing more, is our purpose. We teach god as much as he teaches us.

so what if we destroy earth, and ourselves. Do you think that in the entirety of the universe, this planet is the only thing that is alive? And if it is, why is life necessarily good then? Maybe we are just mold on god's marble collection. Maybe, from a higher perspective, we shouldnt be here. just food for thought.

I'm not going to go into my own personal (and highly subjective) experiences with reincarnation. Let me just say that i've been here awhile and have learned that some things never change, and thats OK. The important thing is the struggle, not the change.

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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: DoctorJ] * 1
    #2248454 - 01/17/04 01:34 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

"Maybe we are just mold on god's marble collection" i absolutely love this quote dr.j . And ive had similar thoughts myself. I mean what is it thats so bad about the loss of humanity? as a species we have eliminated thousands of glorius animal and plant species. That being the case from a higher perspective , from the perspective of someone who loves life itself more than humanity, our extinction would be the best thing that could happen to the world, and i fully realise that. All people must die, it is nothing to be feared. so why not all die at the same time? after all, when a parasite drains too much from its host, then there is not choice but for the parasite to die. The thing is the parasite is taking its host down with it. the thing is the manner in which we our conducting our suicide is destroying this world with us, and for whatever reason that thought is unpleasant to me. As for trendal "We cannot destroy the Earth, nor can we destroy Life." in fact we can do this. THere is a certain level of tension at which point life can no longer be sustained on this planet beyond the microscopic/single cellular level, and perhaps even that. There is a reason why earth is the only known planet that harbours life, oRganic material. Because enviromental conditions here make it possible, an incredibly complex yet fragile balance exists where numerous enviromental systems interact and interplay, feeding off each other in such a way that life is sustained from year to year, century to century. THe world watch institute claims that our current course of activity will cause the collaps of first one and then more of those systems, which will in turn cause the collapse of other systems to the point that the balance is so disrupted as to bring to an end the whole drama of life on earth.

But maybe even caring about humanity, about earth, about life itself is just showing the narrowness of our view, perhaps it is just another form of egocentrism. That is, "i am the epitome of creation, and i live, therefore life is important"

does it really matter if we get hit by a car tommorow or die from enviromental poisoning in 30 years? i dont rightly know, but ill think about it

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OfflineFrog
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS] * 1
    #2248474 - 01/17/04 01:44 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know if just talking about it on the internet, or with like-minded people, will do any good.

I also agree with DoctorJ that maybe we can't save the world, or maybe the world doesn't want to be saved.

This is where I think I believe in determinism, or fatalism, or whatever, that what is going to happen will happen, regardless of what we try to do about it in advance.

I know I'm going to take some heat over this, but I'm willing to have my mind changed.

I also believe that we each have a job to do here. I am here to be an attorney, not to save the world. I can't do everything.

But if someone else has a job that requires saving the world, and I am informed of something I could do while I'm doing my job, that would help, I'll do it, but I don't think it's my primary job.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS] * 1
    #2248509 - 01/17/04 02:09 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

  >fuel cell technology that will replace all fossil fuels in 20 years or something along those lines.

The technology probably could of been here 50 years ago but thoes greedy bastard oil barrons (USA) :wink: dont want cheap enviromentaly friendly alternative power simply beacues there is no money in it.

Even if you came up with a 100% efficient power source that cost nothing to build and run and could esaily power the world tommorrow, do you think you would live long. some one would want you dead.

The way the world is geared up to day is FU$K the future just live life for today by the time things get realy screwed up I will be dead anyway, so why should i care.
I just hope thoes cunts are reborn in enough tme to feel the full front of the shit they caused.

Anyway its a nice Idea but the human race is gona die out or a very large number of us will and hopefully its only the sane that survive.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: trendal] * 1
    #2248654 - 01/17/04 03:26 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

However we can destroy ourselves and definately are on the path to doing so.

If that were a truth and not a supposition, then the population of mankind should be nearing extinction (a la the elephant) or at least rapidly decreasing rather than being at an all-time high.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami] * 1
    #2248666 - 01/17/04 03:30 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know man. elephants don't have nuclear weapons.
I agree it would be hard to actually make the human species completely extinct, even if all nukes were detonated.

but we could easily destroy human civilization

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS] * 1
    #2248753 - 01/17/04 03:58 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

"There is a certain level of tension at which point life can no longer be sustained on this planet beyond the microscopic/single cellular level, and perhaps even that."

There is a flaw in thinking that this is the "destruction of earth".. on the contrary, after we do this "horrible act", we will disappear. This gives the earth a healing period, after which it may VERY WELL lead to some OTHER form of life to take our place.

(Is this stuff sounding farmiliar? Think dinosaurs...)

The point I'm making is, maybe with these "cycles" things work in, SOMETHING has to lead to the next "ice age". I wouldn't be surprised if it's going to be humankind's "destruction path" if you will.

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: JacquesCousteau] * 1
    #2248760 - 01/17/04 04:00 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

(Is this stuff sounding farmiliar? Think dinosaurs...)

And we haven't even been around a QUARTER of the time that dinosaurs were around this planet for. :crazy:


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS] * 1
    #2248787 - 01/17/04 04:09 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

well my immediate goals are to spread the word of love and diversity to all that will hear, and I am starting work on a energy device using magnet discs and a generator which we hope to develop into a rough draft for a portable free energy device. spark the revolution wherever you can at the moment.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Shroomism] * 1
    #2248790 - 01/17/04 04:10 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

In the meantime I am sticking with batteries... :oogle:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami] * 1
    #2248793 - 01/17/04 04:12 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Energizer..or..Duracell?


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS] * 1
    #2248801 - 01/17/04 04:14 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

At the very least, we should try to stop destroying the environment faster than it can recover.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami] * 1
    #2248803 - 01/17/04 04:14 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

You should help me. We could save the world.


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Shroomism] * 1
    #2248811 - 01/17/04 04:15 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

im down with saving the world! :-)


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Grumpy Old Man.

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Yarry]
    #2248815 - 01/17/04 04:16 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I just NOW noticed that your sn is obviously a parody of Harry Potter...hehehe. Pretty original. I dig it. 5 shrooms just for that. :thumbup:


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Yarry]
    #2248817 - 01/17/04 04:16 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

/me refills skorpivos milky bottle

Edited by Shroomism (01/17/04 04:34 PM)

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2249275 - 01/17/04 07:22 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I think we all have to get our friends concerned with these issues..... the people we really know and interact with "in person."

The more we bother our friends with talk about how messy and wasteful we are getting, the more they will hear it and tell others.

The more people see this, the more people we will have complaining to "leaders."

The more people complaining to leaders we have, and the more requests we send to stop wasting money on military and start spending on lessening our ecological and political footprints, the more people we will find with our views gaining support and "power/influence."

I think we are going to have to give up many of the excessive luxuries we live with today, and it may be quite painful for a while, but if people were to hold off on wasteful and excessive lifestyles for just a couple generations, I think the new children would be much healthier, mentally and physically

AFFLUENZA is shutting us down.. lets shut IT down


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Strumpling]
    #2249391 - 01/17/04 09:31 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

"This is where I think I believe in determinism, or fatalism, or whatever, that what is going to happen will happen, regardless of what we try to do about it in advance. "
frog, im amazed that anyone could believe in such a disempowering philosophy that is so contrary to common sense and observable truth.
(oh wait.. no im not. Seems like most people do actually)

your friend bumps a glass with his elbow. You see it is on the brink of falling down. I, lacking this belief in fatalism or determinism, would reach out and set the glass back on the counter. You, would think 'what is going to happen will happen, regardless of what i try to do about it" ? is that really what you believe? that you have NO personal power? No ability to influence your surroundings or your future? the problems in the world were caused by the actions of people. The solutions to those problems will rely on the same. You cant sit around in blind acceptance of your fate. You DO have power frog, and you can influence what goes on. This is what seperates us physical people from wisps of invisible gas.

another thing you talked about, how we each have a job to do and you percieve yours as being a lawyer and not as saving the world. Fair enough if thats what you want to believe. But we all need to work for a living. ALL of us. does that really excuse us from any responsibilty for the well being of this planet, the enviroment, our fellow man? if everyone thought like you (i susppect they do in fact) than no one would ever do anything because they think working a 9 to 5 is all god intended them to do on this earth.

both of your oppinions expressed on this thread have been uncharacteristically depressing, froggy my dear  :sad:
and finally: "i dont think that talking with like minded people will help anything" not if thats all we do. But communication nescessarily precedes organized action does it not? how are we ever going to accomplish anything if we dont discuss with like minded people? hence the goal of this post

"However we can destroy ourselves and definately are on the path to doing so. "

swami "If that were a truth and not a supposition, then the population of mankind should be nearing extinction (a la the elephant) or at least rapidly decreasing rather than being at an all-time high."

come on swami think a little farther ahead than that. The elephant and the human are very diffrent. Humanity drains the resources required for his own survival at a rate that is unsustainable. The more people there are, the more unsustainable that consumption becomes, the faster the resources run out, the sooner we reach the point of no return. You really think population is the sole indicator of a species life expectancy?

Strumpling:  thank you strumpling for being the first one to respond to my original request in the way i had hoped. (suggesting a course of action)

to be honest im a bit surprised at the lack of enviromentalist sentiment on this board so far. FOr some reason i think of shroomers and nature lovers as going hand in hand, but so far most of you have expressed feelings along the lines of

1. i cant do anything about it
2. who cares if we all die?
3. we SHOULD all die
4. this is all poppycock, were not going to die

thats fine, and all somewhat valid, but still surprising to me

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Invisiblepanamared
State of Mind

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Yarry]
    #2249509 - 01/17/04 11:31 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

who is to say when the world will end and when it will not?


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shrug dot aboleo dot net

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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2249513 - 01/17/04 11:34 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

"to be honest im a bit surprised at the lack of enviromentalist sentiment on this board so far."

I am here and wide awake :smile:

Yes, the world is in ABSOLUTE ECOLOGICAL CRISIS and to say otherwise is just nieve, but to think that it can be changed just like that, is also nieve.

But YOU can do alot yourself, but you must realize that UNTIL, we all have proper democracies, the enviroment is fucked.

www.corpwatch.org
www.indymedia.org
www.adbusters.org

There is alot of good stuff going on if you look for it


examples, a thing called a "DEW LINE" that makes TONS of clean water every 24 hours, water that is sucked right ot of the air, clean and pure.

A vegtable wrap for meat that could replace plastic, and even be thrown in to the meal MMMMMM


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2249684 - 01/18/04 01:39 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

look, the fact that we are chopping down trees (our main source of oxygne) at an increasing rate shows that what really need to "change" is what goes on in our hearts and minds.  our hearts and minds are being affected by a lot of personal issues, issues that need to be resolved in our own world, or as Dr J put it, the struggle. I believe we must first find inner peace within ourselves, find what freedom is to us, and then go from there.  from that standpoint, I'm doing as much as I can.

for the environment...yeah things don't look great, but it is in my humble opinion that if this earth needs us to go away for it to survive, it'll happen.  if we get to that point...well then...heh, that's up to god :smile:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2249723 - 01/18/04 01:59 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

"we get to that point...well then...heh, that's up to god"

thoughts like that got the human species nothing but trouble so far, so dont push it


I belive in some sort of god that would take me awhile to explain, but to just go.....its up to god is foolish! :smile:

Why not think and try a little on our own to aye, instead of just going assbackwards into oblivion :smile:

saying........all the while


"GOD WILL SAVE  US!!!!!!, DONT FEAR!!!!, COME ALONG"


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2249739 - 01/18/04 02:04 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:  quite so, I was being sarcastic, sorry for the wrong impression (that's what the "heh" was for) :wink:

but really though, if we all calm ourselves down, then we can look at the porblems we are causing the earth with a little bit more clairity, which is what I think we need.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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OfflineAmber_Glow
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2249922 - 01/18/04 04:00 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

The earth is being destroyed, this is true.

To those who believe that life will always continue on earth, that everything is cyclical, that earth will recover...wake up! The earth is not magical. Fairy godmother does not sprinkle her angel dust in the air and poof the ozone comes back. Yes the earth has sustained through a lot of shit, but that doesn't mean we can't ruin it to a point of no return.

We are a greedy, greedy, selfish race. The #1 concern of every person on this planet and of every politician should be ecological. Who cares about your prescription drugs, who cares about balancing the budget, who cares about your next pay check, and (hate to say it!) but who even cares about legalizing marijuana - THE FRIGGIN EARTH IS BEING DESTROYED!!!!!

There is SO MUCH the human race could be doing right now to help save the earth, and we aren't doing ANYTHING. I find the human race truly quite disgusting when I think of how horrible we are at things like this. We truly are a disease. I know there are plenty of us out there who would put saving the earth at the top of our list, but for most people, saving the earth isn't even on their radar.

What can we do? I dunno. I suppose at the least we can vote for politicians who have the earth as a top priority. There is little a single person can do about these issues, because it requires complete global change.

And if you are driving an SUV...shame on you!

Also, to Frog. Determinism/fatalism type beliefs are downright silly. You really think you have no influence? No free will at all? Thats preposterous. And if this was the case, why do you even bother living? Everything is already determined, you might as well just sit back and rot because you have no control over your life. You are free, you are real, you control your own future. It also seems like you are using determinism as an excuse to not try to help the planet. "I don't have to do anything because the earth's destiny is already determined..." This kind of thinking is extremely dangerous and it doesn't help you or anyone else. Give yourself more credit, you are piloting your ship!!!

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #2250064 - 01/18/04 08:25 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

It?s not easy to survive in a negative environment and it?s tough to be subjected to the pain that transpires on the Earth Plane. To help you understand more fully that your world has a Divine plan, know this: The Earth is meant to be negative and will always remain negative until God disposes of it. It?s the school for your soul?to learn from and experience negativity.
It may be hard for some of you to accept the fact that the Earth plane will always be negative. You try to foster goodness in the world. You try to end suffering. You try to stop the killing of other human beings. Certainly, you do all of this. You?d be remiss in your duty to God if you didn?t. You must remember, however, that it?s done out of necessity. If negativity didn?t exist, what would you fight against? You learn about yourself when you fight against an injustice. You view it, attack it, try to suppress it, and experience it so that you know all of its facets, all of its ways, and all of its effects.
In fighting negativity, you must be careful not to create more of it. You can?t rid the Earth of the negative?it?s meant to be here?but you can make your own island of Light and find others who profess the same belief. If you too become zealous in your fight against the negative, you can ultimately perpetuate it.


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2250111 - 01/18/04 09:21 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

^^^ :thumbup:

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami]
    #2250127 - 01/18/04 09:35 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

If that were a truth and not a supposition, then the population of mankind should be nearing extinction (a la the elephant) or at least rapidly decreasing rather than being at an all-time high.

If you watch a species going through over-population you'll notice that the decline in numbers does not occur until very close to what can be considered the endpoint of the extinction event. Numbers do not fall off as slowly as they rise...

I'm betting that we would never see it coming.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #2250135 - 01/18/04 09:40 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

"To those who believe that life will always continue on earth, that everything is cyclical, that earth will recover...wake up! The earth is not magical. Fairy godmother does not sprinkle her angel dust in the air and poof the ozone comes back. Yes the earth has sustained through a lot of shit, but that doesn't mean we can't ruin it to a point of no return."

No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about. You're speaking from the perspective of the ant. The fact is, the amount of time that could pass before life springs back up could be astronomical.. it could be MILLIONS of years. But this does not mean that it will not eventually "recycle" into something else. It's foolish to assume (from the perspective of someone who experiences maybe a total of 80 years on this planet) that MILLIONS of years is not enough time for the earth to heal back to the point where it could harbor life again.

I'd be willing to bet (if I had any way of finding out anyway) that once humans are gone, the earth will recover and one day harbor life again. I didn't say the week after we die.. the point I'm trying to make is, in the time that the universe has to sit around, a lot can happen.

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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2250227 - 01/18/04 10:35 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Hey guys some Very good posts this time around.

Skorpivomusterion: interesting view point. But why is the earth 'negative'? what do you mean by this term anyways? ive heard you throw around 'negative' and 'positive' alot and thats cool but im not sure i understand. 'the world will always be negative'.... how so? in my experience the world is almost always positive, although i know im a hell of a lot more fortunate than your average bear. If the world was entirely and eternally negative i wouldnt have posted this thread, because the world wouldnt be worth saving. Not at all trying to put you down im just not sure if i understand/agree is all...

Jaquescostea: (sorry about the spelling) : weather or not a few million years of barren lifelessness would be suffiecient for the earth to respawn some microorganisms is not relevant to this discussion. If the thought that some day millions of years in the future a slime may once again crawl out of the sea is suffiecient comfort for you thats fine, but im talking about preventing the collapse of the enviroment as we know it. Now i know its all relative, but i see the natural world as infinitly divers, holy, beautifull, and i see all those things being destroyed by humanity. If we can stop this, we must. If we fail, then yes i too hope someday another microbe will take up the job or repopulating the earth, but that is entirely without importance in this topic (in my oppinion, of course)

and to those of you who (much like me) fear that humanity and the world just werent meant to mix, and that we simply MUST die off, that may be the case, but it does not excuse us the duty of changing that, proving that wrong if we may. It is not predestined weather humanity will succeed or fail. The fate hangs in the balance and it is up to US to decide weather the cosmic histories will remember us as a fleeting, stinky oily smudge on earths page of as something greater. HUmanity has potential, one way or the other, but i am not yet ready to give up hope

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2250285 - 01/18/04 11:05 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I've already posted this before but it seems relevant so I'll post it again:

Jesus came to this planet and told people to love life and be nice to eachother. They nailed his ass to a tree, re-wrote everything he ever said, and used it as proof of their own bogus conclusions. Since then, there has been much war and misery in Jesus' name. Instead of christianity being a philosophy of self-revelation, it has become a dogma of guilt and fear.

Einstein and his contemporaries were trying to understand the universe by studying unique atoms and how they related to energy. They ended up discovering things that led to the invention of the atomic bomb.

Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, and the other great patriots were trying to create a new nation based in peace, freedom, knowledge, and the protection of individual rights. How do you think they would feel if they visited America today?

All I'm sayin is, you teach people how to build a fire, next thing you know they're burning eachother's houses down.

the problem isnt ignorance or motivation. the problem is people. and its not really a problem.

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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2250303 - 01/18/04 11:14 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

so... then... does the existance of the atom bomb, the crusades and george bush prove that their is no hope?

or does the existance of einstein, jesus and jefferson prove that their IS?

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2250323 - 01/18/04 11:21 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

its not all one way or the other.

it just is.

IMO

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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2250326 - 01/18/04 11:24 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

"I've already posted this before but it seems relevant so I'll post it again"
im just trying to figure out WHY it seems relevant to this topic. If you were saying (as it seemed to me ) that no matter what , people will turn the good into the bad and the beutifull into the ugly, then that is relevant because its an argument for why we shouldnt bother trying to save our species. but, if it "just is"
than i dont get the relevance

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2250334 - 01/18/04 11:28 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Skorpivomusterion: interesting view point. But why is the earth 'negative'? what do you mean by this term anyways? ive heard you throw around 'negative' and 'positive' alot and thats cool but im not sure i understand. 'the world will always be negative'.... how so? in my experience the world is almost always positive, although i know im a hell of a lot more fortunate than your average bear. If the world was entirely and eternally negative i wouldnt have posted this thread, because the world wouldnt be worth saving. Not at all trying to put you down im just not sure if i understand/agree is all...

Firstly, to prevent further confusion, I should state that the aforementioned post is based on my belief of reincarnation; that we've all chosen to incarnate into this lifetime and as well as numerous previous lifetimes on this planet, and what we experience in this lifetime to learn from such...And our TRUE home, is not on this plane of existence, but in the 4th dimension. In my belief, we are all essentially 4th dimensional entities incarnating into physical vessels we call our bodies because we chose to learn from the negativity that exists here. To test our souls against the trials and tribulations that we planned out before we incarnated.
Secondly, yes I absolutely believe that much of the world IS always positive. I truly believe with all of my soul and heart that life is absolutely beautiful.
The point I was making in the previous post was that the negativity will always exist, because it exists for the specific reasons as I mentioned.
With the White Yin...comes the Black Yang, and vice versa.

And by Negativity, I mean just about every aspect of the word that you witness in the world.


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #2250353 - 01/18/04 11:40 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Amber: Also, to Frog. Determinism/fatalism type beliefs are downright silly.

If you had read for any length of time, you would have seen that I had posted several times that I don't believe in determinism/fatalism. I believe in free will. But when it comes to the planet Earth, I don't believe any one is going to do anything. I believe that earth is headed towards annihilation.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Frog]
    #2250366 - 01/18/04 11:46 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

And to everyone else...

I am still figuring out how to be a lawyer. My brain can only focus on one thing at a time. I'm sure everyone has excuses for why they can't do something about the planet, but seriously, if I have to take time to get a movement started on this, I'll lose what I've started.

But tell ya what, if you guys really want to get something started, give me one task to do at a time. I can handle doing one thing at a time, as long as I don't have to plan the big picture.

I think it would be fun. Maybe there should be a new forum started for "Heal the Earth" or "Earth Day" or something like that, where posts are made about what we can each do as individuals, such as boycott products, write letters, etc.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Invisiblechunder
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2250419 - 01/18/04 12:14 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

the problem isnt ignorance or motivation. the problem is people. and its not really a problem.

I think the problem is ignorant people.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: trendal]
    #2250450 - 01/18/04 12:26 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

So let me get this straight so that my feeble mind can grasp what you ar saying:

A decreasing population AND / OR increasing numbers of people are BOTH indicative of pending end? :rolleyes:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami]
    #2250458 - 01/18/04 12:31 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Swami you don't feel we are doing damage to this planet?

Oh yeah and I believe many powerful people's solution to this issue is "Lets kill as many people as we can get away with"


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami]
    #2250480 - 01/18/04 12:51 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
So let me get this straight so that my feeble mind can grasp what you ar saying:

A decreasing population AND / OR increasing numbers of people are BOTH indicative of pending end? :rolleyes:



It depends on the degree of increase or decrease and the repucussions of it.  If a population is decreasing to the point where they either have trouble finding mates and reproducing or are confined to a small area, then that is indicative of an impending end.  If, as in the case of humans, a population is increasing and consuming resources to the point that the environment is no longer able to sustain them, then that would also be indicative of an impending end, as they will eventually run out of resources.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Strumpling]
    #2250568 - 01/18/04 01:46 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Do volcanoes damage the planet by killing off millions of life-forms and poisoning the atmosphere?

What about large meteor and asteroid strikes and subsequent ice ages?

Do current-day tsunamis, earthquakes and hurricanes do damage to the planet?

Do lightning-caused forest fires do damage to the planet?

Depends on how you define damage, doesn't it?


--------------------



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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami]
    #2250634 - 01/18/04 02:08 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Do volcanoes damage the planet by killing off millions of life-forms and poisoning the atmosphere?



In the short term, yes. However, volcanic eruptions don't occur regularly enough to cause irreversible damage. Humans, however, are consuming resources far faster than nature can replace them.

Quote:

What about large meteor and asteroid strikes and subsequent ice ages?



Yes. Didn't those cause mass extinctions?

Quote:

Do current-day tsunamis, earthquakes and hurricanes do damage to the planet?



Yes, but as with the volcanoes, they are infrequent enough that the planet is able to recover from them.

Quote:

Do lightning-caused forest fires do damage to the planet?



See above.

Quote:

Depends on how you define damage, doesn't it?



It depends on the time-frame you're talking about.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2250790 - 01/18/04 03:07 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I am in full agreement with PHARMAKOS. We are currently in the "autumn of civilization" and it's getting frosty out there. If we continue to sit on our asses saying that action is pointless for any number of reasons we're just spewing intellectual vomit to rationalize and justify our own complicity with atrocity.

It is a fact that our destructive civilization is compartively young in regards to our species, and even younger in regards to life on this planet as a whole. When considering this how can anyone believe that humans are simply destructive by design? We lived for thousands upon thousands of years without raping the planet, and all the sudden we take up the habit and pretend its natural?

I don't know about the rest of you but my first priority for this lifetime is to do whatever I possibly can to buffer the crash we're inevitably heading towards, not for the sake of the human race but for all the other species we're going to take down with us. Our civilzation is irredeemable but I'd like to believe humans themselves can remember how to live sustainably as a concientious part of an ecosystem rather than a dominator. Either way our population must seriously decrease. If we just keep plodding along the same path we'll be the cause of our own destruction, but perhaps if some of us work to protect wild areas and restore ecosystems right now there will be something left after we've crashed. Not for whatever humans remain, but for it's own sake. For life's sake.

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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami]
    #2250958 - 01/18/04 05:04 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

" decreasing population AND / OR increasing numbers of people are BOTH indicative of pending end?"

perspective swami.

decrease of population could show that the end is near because one could say, "hey, if the population is decreasing, then maybe nature is de-selecting us"

or a person could say "hey, a decrease in population definately shows that the human race will survive because we won't be over-populating the planet, thus we might have enough food for everyone."

you can definately think of your own reasons for why and increase could mean the end, or even the beginning. I think it's about how the person thinks when shown evidence.

that's why one must be wary of statistic...but that's another idea right there


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami]
    #2251337 - 01/18/04 08:24 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Well I know your mind isn't feeble, so lets not play games here, eh? :wink:

Rapid population growth without a rapid growth of living area and support chain (food, ect) will result in an eventual rapid population decline. I doubt I need to explain why to you.

And I was not talking about indications at all! If you want to talk about them...then fine. Yes, both increasing AND decreasing population can be signs of impending collapse - but not without the addition of other signs. You can't just look at a population and say "oh, it's numbers are decreasing/increasing so that means it is about to die off". That's silly.

However if you see a population rapidly increasing along side a lack of natural resources this can be indicative of pending collapse.

There is never just ONE sign.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2251658 - 01/18/04 11:06 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I am in full agreement with PHARMAKOS. We are currently in the "autumn of civilization" and it's getting frosty out there. If we continue to sit on our asses saying that action is pointless for any number of reasons we're just spewing intellectual vomit to rationalize and justify our own complicity with atrocity.




YES!!!
WELL SAID
:thumbup: :smile:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: trendal]
    #2251692 - 01/18/04 11:21 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

However if you see a population rapidly increasing along side a lack of natural resources this can be indicative of pending collapse.

A population rebalancing does NOT even remotely indicate "the end". It happens ALL THE TIME with most all species. They expand as rapidly as possible, then normalize.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami]
    #2252143 - 01/19/04 05:28 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I never said it indicated "the end" :wink:

The word I used was "collapse"...two entirely different things when you are talking about Life.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: trendal]
    #2252471 - 01/19/04 10:35 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

"a massive increase followed by a normalizing" lol yes swami exactly!

the human population explosion has been MASSIVE and almost incomprehensibly fast. What is the 'normalizing' going to look like than, if the (historically speaking) normal population for the human race is less that 1/30th of the current one? it means that if that population is going to be returned to a normal level, than about 29/30 people are going to die. And that is a population collapse. THe factors that have allowed us to expand so rapidly will change (run out) , and the present human way of life will be destroyed. Its not that difficult a concept swami, i think your arguing for the sake of argument

were not nescessarily talking about extinction, but more likely a return to a primitive, tribal humanity, forget industrialization , were talking about returning to pre-agrarian humanity here.

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2252486 - 01/19/04 10:40 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I remember someone posted a link to a site about some guy who said he was from the future, and his responses to people's questions sounded pretty good.

He said that that is what the future is like, after major war and major change. That we will be living as if in tribal settlements rather than in big cities. People will have to put in a request to move to a new settlement, and show their value, or the resume, as it were, to be judged whether they would be a good addition to society.

Anyone remember the link?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Frog]
    #2252614 - 01/19/04 11:57 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

haha that dude doesnt know shit about the future :tongue:

how the hell is he gonna know about the future if he's livin in the present, influencing how the future turns out? 

maybe he knows about one possible future.

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OfflineFrog
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2252646 - 01/19/04 12:11 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Well, supposedly he couldn't do anything that would cause future events to change. He couldn't even tell people about certain things that were going to happen, so that they couldn't do anything to change the future. He had only come back, in time, to pick up some computer that was obsolete in the future. Something like that.

Someone will eventually come along and give us his name, or maybe I will go back through the threads, later, and see if I can find it.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Offlinefungulus
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2253493 - 01/19/04 04:44 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

The earth is in no danger from us.

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: fungulus]
    #2253659 - 01/19/04 05:44 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

this isnt about 'earth' the massive rotating ball or rock

it is about earth, the solitary sanctuary of life in a massive empty cosmos, vibrant, diverse abundant, and populated with humans AND nature.

this is the earth that is in danger from us

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Frog]
    #2253664 - 01/19/04 05:46 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

His "name" is John Titor. The reason he couldn't change anything about our future (he said) is because the multiverse theory is correct. He said that when you travel back in time, you aren't traveling back to your past...but to an entirely different timeline. Anything you do in that timeline would only effect its future, not "your" timeline. :smirk:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: trendal]
    #2253773 - 01/19/04 06:34 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

ok now it makes total sense :rolleyes:

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2255230 - 01/20/04 06:21 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
In the short term, yes.  However, volcanic eruptions don't occur regularly enough to cause irreversible damage.  Humans, however, are consuming resources far faster than nature can replace them.




Back in the day, there was nothing BUT volcanic eruptions, right? :grin:

However, to the main topic of this thread, I do think that if we started focusing on sustaining our life here for the long term, we would definitely be able to do so. Technology can be used towards whatever end we want to use it... we could stop harvesting the trees and sucking up the oil and polluting the air and water and still live, if we really pushed, even living more comfortably.

If we put just minutes of our day towards spreading ideas of saving the environment and developing technology to meet our resources needs, getting the right people into office and such, it could definitely be done. It all revolves around education, developing these ideas and getting people to understand them, and then start working towards implementing them...

I remember watching a show once that was talking about Africa.. how people were raising cows, of course, in an environment that doesn't support herds of cows. They would slash and burn the rainforest to make way for the cows... and they wouldn't even eat or sell the cows! The more cows you had, the richer you were, which earned you more respect.. so they have these sickly ass cows that they don't do anything with, when they could be developing tourism, raising iguanas and shit for meat...

But ja, I love trees. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2258853 - 01/21/04 02:28 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

It may be hard for some of you to accept the fact that the Earth plane will always be negative.





While I understand what you are saying I remember a book I read about that and it was just made up, thats all :shocked:

I prefer the buddist idea of , not one , not two, the concept of something right inbetween two things, that cannot just be diffined as this or that, one or the other, etc and I apply that idea to what we are talking about here to, but dont call me foolish I realize the buddists also talk about how all life is sufering.

Well....
Not one , not two

I cant do everything , but I can do something, and there is no reason to say, not give a man on the street some food, and then shrug the idea of feeding people off with fancy sounding yet cerrebrally empty, and emotionally cold
stuff like, "there will alway be sffering SO then.....whats the point" :thumbdown: :rolleyes: :nonono:


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Edited by Psilocybeingzz (01/25/04 03:48 PM)

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2260123 - 01/21/04 02:37 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

ive decided to desolve my life to the level of lunatic primitive
i will wander the streets at night in a cloud of drug smoke and smash the windows of the GAP and spraypoint absurdities on ever billboard, sugar in every gas tank, urine in every mail slot

and then escape to the wilderness where i will lie in the snow amidst the starving deer until my body systems slow and cease and i feed the earth.

i suggest you all do the same while theres still time

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2260140 - 01/21/04 02:40 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

:grin:

Can I mumble incoherently and steal picnic baskets too? :lol:

By the way, that reminded me of the Simpsons episode where that bear roams into town, doesn't do any damage except for ruining the Simpsons mailbox, and Homer gets all upset and demands that the mayor establishes that Bear Control thing or whatever, and they are in his office, and Moe is like "and these are smarter than the average bear", and something about swiping pic-a-nic baskets.

Anyways, after they leave, Mayor Quimby pulls out a pic-a-nic basket and starts eating... that look on his face while he is doing it, it just makes me fucking roll with laughter. Not only that, but go off topic ranting about it to others.  :eyemouth:

:grin:
Peace.

Edited by fireworks_god (01/21/04 02:45 PM)

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2260370 - 01/21/04 04:11 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I believe in the theory that I simply by saying:

As within, is without.



I believe the external , physical world is a reflection of our own internal struggle - which stems from the emotional and spiritual bodies.


So, in effect - I believe in better oneself, through Goodness and all thats assocaited with it, and that is one of the best changes you can make, the rest shall come natural.

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2260411 - 01/21/04 04:24 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PHARMAKOS said:
ive decided to desolve my life to the level of lunatic primitive
i will wander the streets at night in a cloud of drug smoke and smash the windows of the GAP and spraypoint absurdities on ever billboard, sugar in every gas tank, urine in every mail slot

and then escape to the wilderness where i will lie in the snow amidst the starving deer until my body systems slow and cease and i feed the earth.

i suggest you all do the same while theres still time


Beautiful! How utterly poetic.

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2272144 - 01/25/04 04:02 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

  ive decided to desolve my life to the level of lunatic primitive




nlike say a lunatic consumer????, well at least the privative will only kill HIMSELF. :rolleyes:


Quote:

smash the windows of the GAP 




Ya, and there is not reason to actually do that right, anyone that does that MUST be stpid, they might couldnt know something you refuse to realize right????? :rolleyes:


Quote:

spraypoint absurdities on ever billboard



Once again , there is nothing good about ideas or change, just leave the ad alone!!!! :rolleyes:, gee just think people might actually get a TASTE of freedom of speech, that would be horrible!!!


Quote:

and then escape to the wilderness where i will lie in the snow amidst the starving deer until my body systems slow and cease and i feed the earth.

i suggest you all do the same while theres still time 





History will look back on us as the worlds WORST people of all time, we raped the earth much of the time(not all) for things we just dont need,useless shit, and there is more being made then can be consumed !!!!
humans are insane! :eek:
Reality is a big pill to swallow aye?


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Edited by Psilocybeingzz (01/25/04 04:05 PM)

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2272212 - 01/25/04 04:32 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

History will look back on us as the worlds WORST people of all time, we raped the earth much of the time

1 or 10 or 100 or 1000 people raping the earth will make no indentation, but billions will. Nor will one man with a shovel reek as much havoc as one with a bulldozer.

My questions to you are: Are people actually worse or is it merely a matter of numbers and technological amplification of greed that has ALWAYS existed?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Swami]
    #2272398 - 01/25/04 05:57 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

My questions to you are: Are people actually worse or is it merely a matter of numbers and technological amplification of greed that has ALWAYS existed?





I have to admit it, I didnt think about that, usre I knew greed has always been around , but I didnt think opf things thge way yo put it.


I cant say, for sure, but I think overall there have been huge advancements in how we deal with each other, but the way we deal with the planet that sustains us ,is still WAY out of whack, and yes humans still have a long way to go in treating each other fairly, but the lucky ones, us in America, Canada , Europe etc, have made progress in some ways, while going backwards in others.

Quote:

1 or 10 or 100 or 1000 people raping the earth will make no indentation, but billions will. Nor will one man with a shovel reek as much havoc as one with a bulldozer.




20% of us are taking all(80%) the resources and making 80% of the pollution!!

so a couple north americans really DO MORE then someone from india etc

Whats even more scary is that alot of countries are rapidly approching "our way of life", well the world would already need 4 more planets for everyone to live like an american, so then if things dont change , get ready for more war and chaos as we all try to "live"

(by thw way, I BELIVE that we could still have a good life and a good enviroment!, I dont want to got back to the caves, but I also dont want to go ass backards into oblivion.  :smirk: , its the USELESS that we must purge!, I am not suggesting everyone start skipping meals and such! :thumbdown:

but maybe shop less, ya I know what a horrible thing to say, to think one could find live a happy and full life without shopping as a sport, I must be insane, and I am rambling , I will stop........now :mushroom2:


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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2272781 - 01/25/04 08:43 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

psilocybeingzz: i dont know if its just me, but i didnt understand a WORD of that post

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2272806 - 01/25/04 08:53 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

"I dont want to got back to the caves, but I also dont want to go ass backards into oblivion."

Are we really heading into oblivion? Are you absolutely positive that this isn't a good bit of overblown hysteria?

There's no question that there are starving people on the planet, or that we've had negative impacts on the environment, but why are so many environmentalists insisting we're on the brink of armageddon? What's the evidence to support this? Is it solid?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2272819 - 01/25/04 08:57 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

"i will wander the streets at night in a cloud of drug smoke and smash the windows of the GAP and spraypoint absurdities on ever billboard, sugar in every gas tank, urine in every mail slot"

Sounds more like you're an angry drunken teenager than a revolutionary. You don't like the way the world works, so you just cause misery and disruption for other people instead of trying to change anything for the better.

Sounds just like the average rant of every kid who reads Adbusters, and blindly believes all the bullshit they print, and watches Fight Club, picking up on the anti-corporate messages, but completely ignoring the criticism of group mentality and blind destruction.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Phluck]
    #2272835 - 01/25/04 09:02 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

maybe they think that with their evidence and the current trends as far as pollution is concerned that WE WILL without a doubt be headed there. How am i suppose to know? Things suck and i will tell you that. I can also tell you that the way people are continuing to build is rather shitty as well, there is little to not consideration of where i live for the natural environment.

Maybe its personal feelings of dispair that make them feel like this world is headed toward armegeddon. Have you ever been in the texas heat before? All summer long, walked home from school on the side of the road to smell the nasty smog and the black tar heating up inside the road to deilver a nasty stentch?

Do you have any idea on what kind of energy drain the roads have as far as energy is concerned and their relative position to the houses that are around? The same goes for trees and the positioning of building. Think about this on a much larger scale with a much diverse set of scenarios.

The same crap is taking place in other areas. Pollution doesnt have to be direct, a lot of it has to do with design management as well. Look at the majority and most suburban areas that are integrated with cities... take a look at the planning.

I ask myself, is anyhting being done to curb these affects? What about things outside of design? Pollution of the oceans? Those companies that dont have to do anything cause they are stuck in the grandfather clauses.

I dont know about canada, but it seems that america is pumping out more pollution than them.


--------------------
What?

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2272922 - 01/25/04 09:28 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

"Things suck and i will tell you that."

Compared to what, exactly?

I have no doubt that you and many people BELIEVE that the world is in great decline, and that it's easy to find things that disturb and disgust you, but this does not necessarily mean that the world is ACTUALLY in decline.

All I'm saying is: Don't jump to conclusions, and don't believe everything your hear, no matter which side it's coming from. I've heard big corporations blatantly lie and distort the truth to downplay the amount of pollution they're causing, but I'm also heard environmentalists distort the truth, and make claims that were just plain wrong. Look out.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2272933 - 01/25/04 09:33 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

www.globalissues.org/EnvIssues/GlobalWarming/Kyoto.asp

The U.S. is the worst polluter, it appears.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Phluck]
    #2272966 - 01/25/04 09:44 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

We can all say that we can distort the fact, dont believe everything that you hear.

I undertsand that. I am not denying the fact that what i say comes from my position, but it is just that. It is MY position. What else am i suppose to think? Because you dont think that the information that you process lends you to believe that your world is not headed in the right direction means that i am not to percieve otherwise?


There is a lot of information out there, and we have to take into account the differences between the both of us. Im not going to deny the very real possibility of psychology or the optimistic/pessimistic view. I have my own ideas on why i think the world is headed to shit, but they stand only there, just like your position stands where you are.

we dont have the mental ability by one person to judge such things. But i can tell you that the way things are going, are not very pretty as far as designed is concerned, because i can prove more or less that people dont give a shit about it!  Im not going to say that it is going to lead to armegeddon, or that people might not come up with it. But taking the social factors along with the trends... you will get my view.

Compared to what? My life has been hard enough for me to deal with, im not going to say it wasnt worse for other people. But Am i to think about how shitty other peoples live seem than my own? My life is a insane number of questions that seem to go to no where, with no common ground between them

Its hard for me to feel like i connect with anything, rational thought is a triviality, its nothing more than words on a page, definitions in a book. U dont have a problem with life... because you are content? Because you dont think that there is anything to change? Because why...? Does that make the world better for other people? .... does it necessarily make it worse? I dont have a damn clue. Im just going with what i think is what  :nut:

just cause i say something, dont assume that I KNOW, after all, i could be wrong. but chances are we probably both are, to an extent  :shiftyeyes:  :biggrin:


--------------------
What?

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Frog]
    #2272970 - 01/25/04 09:45 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.skepticism.net/faq/environment/global_warming/
This is a link that provides a great deal of articles that provide a skeptical opinion of global warming.

I'm posting this not because I think global warming is bullshit, which I don't, but because I think that people need to realize that it is not a proven fact. There is still a lot of controversy over this idea. There is evidence to support it, and evidence against it. Many people aren't aware that there is any controversy at all, and there are quite a few people who are erroneously claiming that it is absolutely a proven fact.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Phluck]
    #2273002 - 01/25/04 09:55 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

heh, i think what is more of a more obvious fact than anything is the fact that people are being exposed to harmful pollutants. Even if the ice caps dont melt and water doesnt drown us, what about the chemicals? What about the processed food? I can understand the fact that global warming can have a lot to do with many things, but my faith in the humanity at this point is very low. I can barely even find the faith in myself. Maybe it goes hand in hand, but once again, i alone am not one to answer these questions.


--------------------
What?

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2273033 - 01/25/04 10:05 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

If these harmful chemicals and processed foods are so bad for us, why are our life expectancy rates higher than ever?

Are those strange chemical names in the ingredients list so bad for us, or do they just not sound like food, so we assume they must be horrible? If they are really so bad for us, why doesn't the FDA do something? (I know, I know, massive government conspiracy.  :rolleyes: Didn't Clinton eat at McDonald's, though? Was he not in on it?)


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Phluck]
    #2273063 - 01/25/04 10:17 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

so heart disease isnt bad? Ohhh i forgot about diabetes. People choose to do this and i agree. but people dont give a fucking DAMN! im sorry, but you and i both know its true. I smoke cigs, people die of cancer cause they smoke? Does that mean because they smoke they will get cancer? No... okay... Take cigs, processed food, addictions to random bullshit... oaky stuff this potatoe some more... wait. what is stuffing this potatoe? I fforgot, more half ass stuffed potatoes who just want to stuff themselves and sit down for dinner and vanish.

I guess the dumping of a shitload of minerals in the water is good for the fish? So when the people eat the fish, the high levels of industrial pollutants is good for them? OO yeah, it makes their bones nice and strong, and actually strengthens the cells right?  :rolleyes:

And this all will just stay where it is? Time is going to freeze in here right now on januarry 25 2004? things will be peachy forever? Oh yeah. I forgot about the future.


--------------------
What?

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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2273083 - 01/25/04 10:23 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Huh?

I think you're confusing things. Unhealthy diets have nothing to do with chemical additives.

It's fat and sugar that cause heart disease and diabetes. Neither of these things have anything to do with strange chemicals. You could get clogged arteries from eating too much wooly mammoth.

Cigarette smoking is on the decline right now.

And again... the average lifespan just keeps getting longer.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Phluck]
    #2273229 - 01/25/04 11:08 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Okay, okay. Did you overlook the fish? The fish? Are you leaving things out? Cigarette smoking is on the decline? I just got my friend to smoke last night. Life spans are increasing... children are dying at a very high rate in africa due to aids? Did we find a cure for it?

Comparible.. to what? This is pointless. People dont really care, you are content with your life, i am not. I think their is a danger, you do not. equal fact to support a possibility. Whats the point, you dont care anyway?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2273947 - 01/26/04 06:11 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

"Did you overlook the fish? The fish? Are you leaving things out?"

Is there evidence that the chemicals found in fish are actually harming us? Even if it is, is it harming us so badly that it's posing a serious health threat?

"Cigarette smoking is on the decline? I just got my friend to smoke last night."

Totally ludicrous argument. Less people are smoking nowadays than before, this doesn't mean that you won't be able to find people who have just started smoking, it means that overall, people are smoking less. Why the hell did you get your friend smoke anyway? That doesn't sound like the kind of thing a friend would do.

"Life spans are increasing... children are dying at a very high rate in africa due to aids? Did we find a cure for it?"

AIDS sucks, no doubt about it. But this has absolutely nothing to do with chemicals, and overall, life spans are still increasing.

"People dont really care, you are content with your life, i am not. I think their is a danger, you do not. equal fact to support a possibility.

There isn't equal fact. The things you've come up with aren't real evidence of anything. You can find all kinds of incidents of bad things happening, but you can't just generalize. "My friend just started smoking, that must mean that everyone is smoking more"... What kind of argument is that?


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Phluck]
    #2274000 - 01/26/04 07:07 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

And again... the average lifespan just keeps getting longer.

This concerns me...
With all what medical technology and man-made chemicals and whatnot that we pump into our society's elderly and young to prolong our so-much-feared Death-warrants, we have more and more and more elderly people generation by generation. Baby boomers, as some call it. And of course it's not just the baby boomers, it's everybody else. Young people are still spurting out everywhere at a  consistent rate, more or less. The more our lifespan increases, the more old people there will be and behind them there will STILL be an ever-relentless population of younger generations following them.
We won't be able to just send our Grandpas and Grandmas packing to ol' sunny Florida forever.
But I suspect 'Mother Nature' has it's own biological defensive mechanisms to protect itself from potential dillemmas. Aids, perhaps may be one of them.
Think about it, what better defense against over-population than a virus that is spawned BY sexual contact, and/or otherwise; which is what, of course, causes the increase in population. But, let's face it, we're dealing with that today as it is. And yet, this planet's population is still growing and growing and all the while it's inhabitant's life-span will grow exponentially longer.
Something's gotta give.
What that would be, I don't know.
Who knows....maybe we'll just have to improvise and start building cities underground or in the ocean...and fucker up all the Ocean's environment like we did on the dry-land already.
Maybe we'll move to the moon.
Maybe we'll send some of our population to Mars.
Maybe...Mother Nature will just send a comet flying to erase the virus off the planet called...
Human Nature.
Who knows...
We'll see. :grin:


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2274270 - 01/26/04 09:45 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, that is a valid concern.

Take cancer for example. All multicelled organism get cancer, and it's a huge killer. Probably one of nature's best tools for controlling population growth. Can you imagine the consequences if we found a cheap cure?

But hey, maybe we'll have no trouble colonizing other planets are harvesting resources there. Or we'll get those huge indoor ecosystem towers they had if you got really far in SimCity 2000.

Every new threat is just another challenge. Humans will probably lose out someday, but not without putting up a really good fight.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Anonymous

Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2274367 - 01/26/04 10:17 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

given enough time, everyone will die, all life on earth will perish, and the planet will be consumed by the sun. there will be no history, no record, and no memory of anything that ever happened here.

:laugh:

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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: ]
    #2274598 - 01/26/04 12:07 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Guess I better grow more shrooms while I can.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Evolving]
    #2274667 - 01/26/04 12:40 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

So who's going to help me build a perpetual energy device. I'll do it by myself if I have to.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Shroomism]
    #2274675 - 01/26/04 12:42 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Just make sure you get a good lawyer and patent/register your idea, so you dont raped. Up the ass.



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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2274683 - 01/26/04 12:45 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

yeah like tesla


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Phluck]
    #2275098 - 01/26/04 03:38 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cigarette smoking is on the decline? I just got my friend to smoke last night."

Totally ludicrous argument. Less people are smoking nowadays than before, this doesn't mean that you won't be able to find people who have just started smoking, it means that overall, people are smoking less. Why the hell did you get your friend smoke anyway? That doesn't sound like the kind of thing a friend would do.





:lol: , yes, i know it was "ludricous", he wanted the cigarette anyway. Are you trying to personalize this? It was a ludricous topic to bring up anyway, im generalizing in the sense that their are many unhealthy chemicals people are being exposed to. These chemicals arent going away, they are in our rivers, the ocean, the air.

The only reason that I brought up the fact that you cared or not was because you said that you are content with the way things are.

I think that it is a bad habbit for people to ignore the affects of chemical agents in the atmosphere and in their diet.

I dotn want to live in a city where all i smell is the fuems of car exhaust, i dont want to live in a city that doesnt have a lot of trees. But you knwo what? i live in that city. Who is going to determine the long term affects of these chemical agents in individuals? A lot of these "chemicals" pose threats to the genome.

i.e. cancer

take a look at this  article

and this sounds like your guy in an article to scientific american.
skeptical environmentalist

You may be skeptical of the devestating affects of the build up of these chemicals, but do you question the people that do these things?

Is asking for a little bit of control and in depth examination of ones own tactics when trying to solve some problem a big deal? Sure it may not End the world, but is it making it better?

it all comes down to whether you care or not, cause i think in the end it will be the individuals who decide where these things will go. Continue to put harmful chemicals in the environment, you will continue to have these issue raise up. These problems wont just vanish in thin air. They need to be dealt with accordingly. Im not going to shit my pants and run away, but im not going to ignore the fact either. Ill do what i think should be done, and you will continue to believe what you want to believe.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Shroomism]
    #2275368 - 01/26/04 05:11 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
So who's going to help me build a perpetual energy device. I'll do it by myself if I have to.



I'll see if I can help you work around the whole "laws of physics" thing.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2275597 - 01/26/04 06:38 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not denying that there's potential danger, and I'm not claiming we should just ignore the problems.

But I think we have to look at it from a rational viewpoint.

When you hear that a whole lot of some chemical is being dumped into the environment, and that the government is doing nothing to stop it, the automatic reaction is that this is horrible and needs to be stopped. The truth is, there are some bizarre chemicals that happen to be perfectly harmless, or far less harmful that people make them out to be.

What I'm saying is, before lashing out and trying to put an end to certain practices, you have to be sure that you're right.

Fighting to save the environment is a great idea, just make sure that your information is correct, otherwise you could just be getting in the way for people who aren't harming anything.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Phluck]
    #2275685 - 01/26/04 07:17 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

if you replace the word lashing out with the word passion, i may agree with you on your observation. But i do not think that i am lashing out, merely trying to rival the necessary drive to care about the environment, to think about the things that are being put their, and the necessity for a watch on new things and a revoking of some current things. Im not saying all things that go in the water are bad, but those that are, are dangerous, with time these things will destroy surrounding ecosystems.

My personal stance is that i will try to think and develop ways that do not require the expense of our surrounding environment to get to the ends which we as humans have been getting to in the past. This effort takes people to take into consideration the harmful efffects of pollutants on the environment, and the risks involved with not taking the proper measure to avoid cirtain tragedies.

If you wanted my stance... well their it is ^. I dont think im being overly charismatic in the approach i take, i wont let it cloud my reason, or at least not now.


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2275971 - 01/26/04 09:26 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Phluck your name and your avatar arouse me, but that is beside the point

My post about the deer dieing and sleeping in the snow and peeing in urinals was the result of sleep deprivation and drugs. Nevertheless, i AM basically just a pissed off teenager, i make no claims at being a revolutionary. Thats why i started this thread. Because i want to know what we can do, if anyone out there IS a revolutionary and what there doing.

As to the theory that were on the brink of enviromental collapse: as far as scientific evidence goes, this is quite literally as solid as it gets. Did you check out the link? this is the largest coalition of enviromental scientists ever to investigate the effect of human pollution in all its forms on the global enviroment. The result of there tests have been known for 10 years, and the world watch institute continues to monitor enviromental decay world wide.

The coalition was over 100 scientists, many of them nobel laureates. Studies were conducted in almost every country in the world. search 'world watch institute' on google and you should find plenty of background.

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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2276221 - 01/26/04 10:58 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

its just like chemistry, mix the wrong shit together, and BOOM!  :eek: yourrr fukkked.  :eyemouth:


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: ahem. shall we try to save the world? [Re: Phluck]
    #2279927 - 01/28/04 05:49 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sounds just like the average rant of every kid who reads Adbusters,





Adbusters is awsome !!
and NOTHING like what was posted, its smart witty and truthfull, if you cant handle that, then ignore it and miss out on great articles.

ADBUSTERS
make up your own mind though people, dont listen to ME or him
judge for YOURSELF


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