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Re: Feminists [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22029410 -

No I believe that feminism provides an avenue to address issues that were previously overlooked because people feel that the roles set out for men and women are inevitable and permanent, and sometimes even divinely sanctioned.

As a human being I feel it is my responsibility to speak up where I see injustice, and I think that the idea that many people have of women being inherently subservient to men is not only unjust, it's just not true.  Not since we lived as warring tribes with no understanding of the importance of community and inclusiveness in regards to allowing all humans to reach their fullest potential has brute strength determined who is superior, and as we move into a time where automation of labor can allow everyone the benefits of modern technology I think it is increasingly important to pay attention to social issues that intend to divide people along lines of gender, race, or nationality.

The fact is we don't need macho assholes going into the future, and aspects of masculinity that people cling to which are harmful to society as a whole must be changed.  Feminism cannot achieve goals without changing men as well as women, and I feel my personal part in feminism is not only behaving in a way that shows respect and tolerance of women in all aspects of culture, but also to promote the ideal of equality through discourse, art, and media.

I can't speak for all feminists, and I definitely can't speak for women, but I would be lying if I didn't say there are no instances in my life where I have seen mis-treatment of women that was justified by misogynist logic.  Does that get blown out of proportion by some feminists?  Perhaps, but from my perspective I see alot of people using the fact that those arguments exist as proof that feminists hate men, when the arguments themselves are not refuted it is more just a judgement call based on how women or feminists saying such things about society makes you feel.  I don't want any part of that, and I do want to acknowledge the important contributions of women, and I hope the role of women in the public sphere continues to grow not just in America but worldwide.

What would you say to someone from Saudi Arabia who wanted to know how feminism has worked out for western culture?  Would you tell them that the feminism we have is twisted and perverse, but they need to embrace women and enable them to live as equals to men?  Do you wish the role of women more closely resembled what it was 50 or 100 years ago, or do you just want people to not call the struggle for gender equality feminism because you find that emasculating?

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Re: Feminists [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22029509 -

Quote:
As a human being I feel it is my responsibility to speak up where I see injustice


I agree

Quote:
the idea that many people have of women being inherently subservient to men is not only unjust, it's just not true


Agreed, as do the majority of people today, we don't need feminism for that

Quote:
I think it is increasingly important to pay attention to social issues that intend to divide people along lines of gender, race, or nationality.


like the feminists movement?

Quote:
The fact is we don't need macho assholes going into the future, and aspects of masculinity that people cling to which are harmful to society as a whole must be changed.


You can't keep assholes from being assholes, most men aren't like that. As a matter of fact, I hate those types of douchebags. You are stereotyping if you are lumping the idea of masculinity/men into this category. Another thing, people can't be changed if they don't want to change. This is one of the major flaws in liberal ideology.

Edited by luvdemboomers (08/01/15 05:01 PM)

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Re: Feminists [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22029517 -

He is not only a race bigot


--------------------

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Re: Feminists [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22029536 -

zappaisgod said:
He is not only a race bigot


huh?

Also I'm not a race bigot. I love all races... except blacks :lol:

Edited by luvdemboomers (08/01/15 05:05 PM)

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Re: Feminists [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22029560 -

luvdemboomers said:
zappaisgod said:
He is not only a race bigot


huh?

Also I'm not a race bigot. I love all races... except blacks :lol:


:doublefacepalm:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Feminists [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22029566 -

I'm not lumping men in that category, I'm saying that men shouldn't cling to outdated notions of masculinity that rely on the ability to physically overpower women in a given scenario.  You seem to acknowledge people do this, and that we should unite against this, but you're stereotyping feminists as women who hate men.

That's the problem with conservative ideology.  They exist on the premise that social progress is a bad thing, and when they can't argue this in a logical manner they have no problem resorting to lies and half-truths to try and convince people that there is some indescribable evil underneath the words that are defined in a quite simple and straightforward way, i.e. feminism == hatred of men =/= advocacy for gender equality

Why do you insist that feminism is something other than what it is in the dictionary?  Do you actually believe there are no issues where women face cultural standards that oppress them in some way, or do you just not care because that is outside the bubble of what effects you personally?

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Re: Feminists [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22029606 -

people who are grabasstic assholes, insist on having more for themselves for no good reason aside from their rhetorical nuance, and who act high and mighty because they come from a standpoint of "i deserve this because..." are all shitty fuckin' people deep down in their cores.

but it's what people are trained to do, so i can't blame them on any individual basis. so.... :shrug: lets blame one group or the other, right?

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Re: Feminists [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22029669 -

moonrockmushy said:
I'm not lumping men in that category, I'm saying that men shouldn't cling to outdated notions of masculinity that rely on the ability to physically overpower women in a given scenario.  You seem to acknowledge people do this, and that we should unite against this, but you're stereotyping feminists as women who hate men.

That's the problem with conservative ideology.  They exist on the premise that social progress is a bad thing, and when they can't argue this in a logical manner they have no problem resorting to lies and half-truths to try and convince people that there is some indescribable evil underneath the words that are defined in a quite simple and straightforward way, i.e. feminism == hatred of men =/= advocacy for gender equality

Why do you insist that feminism is something other than what it is in the dictionary?  Do you actually believe there are no issues where women face cultural standards that oppress them in some way, or do you just not care because that is outside the bubble of what effects you personally?


Because all the fucking time I hear about these batshit feminazis doing some crazy shit. It seems like the majority want to have their cake and eat it too. Sure there are some issues, I just believe they are blown out of proportion and a lot of it is nothing but misinformation. I agree with the idea of feminism I just think today the majority of feminists take things way too fucking far. Of course there are exceptions.

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Re: Feminists [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22029685 -

for the record are you fat and or ugly?






sorry couldn't help myself:curbyourenthusiasm:

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Re: Feminists [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22029689 -

note: there are on occasion extremely hot feminazi's.

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Re: Feminists [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22029691 -

Ok, well take those feelings and subtract the whole legacy of activism that allowed women a voice and larger role in modern culture, and that is how I feel about anti-feminism.

:thatsinteresting:  I think we're getting eachother.

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Re: Feminists [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22029811 -

luvdemboomers said:
for the record are you fat and or ugly?






sorry couldn't help myself:curbyourenthusiasm:


Judge fer yerself


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Re: Feminists [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22030630 -

...? Women have all the rights and opportunities that men have in developed countries.

Women are more likely to be victims of sexual violence like you mentioned, but men are far more likely to be victims of violence in general (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime). Men are given longer prison sentences in general, and men make up virtually all casualties in war.

Pointing to one statistic that says women are the victims of sexual trafficking does not show that there is gender inequality, only gender differences.

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Re: Feminists [Re: bm0322] * 1
    #22030639 -

lets make things even and just slay a bunch of women for their lack of casualties in war. only fair.

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Re: Feminists [Re: bm0322]
    #22030737 -

I think that makes the point that feminism cannot achieve it's goals without men agreeing that humans are made inherently equal, not only in our words, but in our actions.  The fact that some progress has been made does not change the fact that women are still oppressed, as are men.  The idea that men are superior to women is not only something that people say, it is something that people try to prove by degrading and abusing women in both subversive and overt ways. 

Sometimes it is men who allow this to happen, sometimes it is women, that is aside from the point.  It happens.  If all this is over your head and you don't feel capable of making a change, fine, don't be a feminist.  I for one refuse the whole notion that men can't help the way women are treated, and women can't stop it.  Woman can stand up for themselves, they have, and they will continue.  If you think they're going about it all the wrong way I have to think that you disagree with the fundamental notion of human equality, or are operating on a level where you refuse to consider anything that makes you feel like less of a man.

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. [Re: RanOutOfWeed] * 2
    #22031960 -

.


--------------------
This is the strangest life I've ever known.

Edited by scruffymafia (06/20/20 11:58 PM)

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Re: Feminists [Re: scruffymafia]
    #22032253 -

scruffymafia said:
I'm a guy who's gone from being anti-feminist to being staunchly feminist. I'll admit, some feminists give me the absolute shits and/or totally fuck me off, but don't let the radicals write-off a whole group. Judging all feminists for the actions of a few is exactly the same as judging a whole race on the actions of a few.

Most females these days are feminists, they may not tell you because many modern men have stupid biases and preconceptions about feminism, but if you show them some respect, they'll open up and tell what they believe and why. And you should listen. Listening to the stories of my ordinary everyday female friends was what converted me.

Why do we need feminism? Because gender discrimination is pervasive throughout our society. It's fucking everywhere. I feel so fucking privileged being able to walk home in the middle of the night and not have creeps follow me home, to not have to fear for my safety whenever I'm alone in public, to not have to be constantly prepared to defend myself at night, to be able to get completely drunk and know I'll be safe, to not have to take stranger danger / self-defense classes in school (why is there no how to not be a creepy/rapey male class in school?), to not have to question the intentions of all males I meet, to not have to be treated like a mindless piece of meat by strangers, to have my opinion seriously considered by others, to be valued on my intellectual abilities and not my looks, to be free from the plethora of societal expectations that are put on females...I could go on.

Granted, things are getting better, but pretty much all girls will say shit still sucks. Most females have just gotten jaded and used to it...they may seem happy enough, but deep down they resent it.

And why should you want feminism? How could you not want the females in your life to be treated fairly? To be safe and respected?

If y'all could walk in the shoes of a female for a day I'm sure you'd instantly change your minds.


I think the real question here is were they asking for it.

:smilingpuppy:

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Re: Feminists [Re: luvdemboomers] * 1
    #22032296 -


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