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philopian_tube
Registered: 08/24/13
Posts: 443
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#22231349 - 09/13/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Feminists won't be satisfied until everyone is transgender (true equality)
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: philopian_tube]
#22231367 - 09/13/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Many of them will not be satisfied ever. They thrive on angst and discontent and they manufacture it when they have to.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: Mescalean]
#22231380 - 09/13/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Men could make the decision not to enter into a binding contract that is known to entail shared responsibility especially where children are involved. If you get into a relationship with a woman who is not interested in working, I don't really feel that bad for what happens down the line. I think people's expectations going into marriage are often naive, men and women alike.
The implications behind this:
Quote:
I marry a woman, buy a house, pay for that house, she fucks my neighbor, and gets to stay in said house while my ass stays on a futon? While she's still fucking the neighbor?
kinda shows that there is more going on here than you care to admit. You have a basic distrust of women, and in my opinion that is far more damning to men seeking to be in happy relationships than feminism.
Perhaps the problem lies with the institution of marriage and perhaps the gender roles set out for men make them less fit for child care, which is fairly reflected in the courts. There are questions that I see being ignored when it comes to criticizing feminism, because when it comes down to it these people don't want equality, they want a return to "traditional values" which I think are done and gone. We might as well start working towards an improved system, because we're not going back unless society totally collapses.
I would totally support fair treatment for fathers in court if I thought it was well thought out, but it is also possible that the mother is the better caregiver and sometimes courts have to make tough decisions which are almost always based on alot more than feminist considerations.
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: moonrockmushy]
#22231425 - 09/13/15 12:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: Men could make the decision not to enter into a binding contract that is known to entail shared responsibility especially where children are involved. If you get into a relationship with a woman who is not interested in working, I don't really feel that bad for what happens down the line. I think people's expectations going into marriage are often naive, men and women alike.
The implications behind this:
Quote:
I marry a woman, buy a house, pay for that house, she fucks my neighbor, and gets to stay in said house while my ass stays on a futon? While she's still fucking the neighbor?
kinda shows that there is more going on here than you care to admit. You have a basic distrust of women, and in my opinion that is far more damning to men seeking to be in happy relationships than feminism.
Perhaps the problem lies with the institution of marriage and perhaps the gender roles set out for men make them less fit for child care, which is fairly reflected in the courts. There are questions that I see being ignored when it comes to criticizing feminism, because when it comes down to it these people don't want equality, they want a return to "traditional values" which I think are done and gone. We might as well start working towards an improved system, because we're not going back unless society totally collapses.
I would totally support fair treatment for fathers in court if I thought it was well thought out, but it is also possible that the mother is the better caregiver and sometimes courts have to make tough decisions which are almost always based on alot more than feminist considerations.
Not really because there are women I'd trust with my life, one i'm currently testing the waters with relationship wise. Shes a genuinely good woman. You are making assumptions about personal character to help you label me a misogynist. You also just worded pretty much what I said about unfair divorce laws differently, to "pad" the problems with the law that completely fuck men over.
Yes i agree, the sanctity of marriage is dead, which is why I don't understand all the don't let the gays get married when 60 percent of the pop is filing for divorce.
You also completely ignored my question about the whole drunken rape scenario and victimizing women as a whole. While you mention others ignoring questions about equality.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22231457 - 09/13/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd like to say "how many times is the shroomery going to stir this pot?"
But just as interesting, BC, is how many times you are going to stir the same pot?
You seem to be really fond of it.
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Free time is the only time
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Sheekle
FREE BURKE



Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 53,153
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#22231466 - 09/13/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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praise cookie crumbs ban bitter cactus
-------------------- "Ur cat died because he hated u" - Koods "I hope JSB kicks your ass one day." - Vandago "you are the biggest 'internet guy' I have ever come across"- Jokeshopbeard "The more I see you post the more I realize you're just this fuckin tie dye loser who trolls the Shroomery 24/7." - Herbologist "Sheekle you cannot vile the dice of bullshit you have posted on this forum over the years, I like databases" - thelastoneleft "or maybe i just come from a blood line of superior intelligence" - trees R.I.P Kelsy, ?/?/?? - 6/11/16
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#22231531 - 09/13/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I'd like to say "how many times is the shroomery going to stir this pot?"
But just as interesting, BC, is how many times you are going to stir the same pot?
You seem to be really fond of it.
He's been making a few threads to stir the pot lately.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: Mescalean]
#22231591 - 09/13/15 12:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mescalean said:
You also completely ignored my question about the whole drunken rape scenario and victimizing women as a whole. While you mention others ignoring questions about equality.
this?
Quote:
Can we talk about the rape thing? Why is it that if both a woman and i are drunk the whole consent thing sides with her? Why can't I be a rape victim? I'm shit faced too. waaaaa i cant make decisions for myself wwwwwwaaaaa
As far as I know, you can. I think it just doesn't happen that often for a number of reasons, and I would say most serious discussion of the factors behind rape statistics has happened within feminism.
If you got drunk with a woman, and she forced you to have sex without your consent, it would absolutely be rape. I'm not sure how seriously it would be taken, but you've got to consider that there are alot of situations where women are mistreated and then told just to deal with it. It's wrong both ways. Saying that anyone can be raped does not justify ignoring the massive problem of rape because of situations where women lie about being raped, which I believe is far less common than what you imply.
Also, to say that this is not something that feminism cares about is just kinda insulting to your own awareness of the subject. I know that you probably met some feminists who said something offensive to make you uncomfortable, but I could give you a dozen articles right now where feminists address the subject of male and female rape. It's not very relevant to the shroomery, and I'm honestly not looking to be an agent of feminism here, but as well as people who fit the stereotype there are many more who are just normal people, and some even who are very coherent and sensible people.
Edited by moonrockmushy (09/13/15 12:53 PM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: moonrockmushy] 1
#22231642 - 09/13/15 01:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
Quote:
mindbodysoul said: moonrockmushy feminism is a joke..its just a bunch of immature girls getting angry at anything gossip girl and womens weekly tells them to get angry at
Are you sure that it isn't American culture in general that is often shallow and full of half-baked ideas? That's always been my impression, and feminism is one thing that is at least rooted in things I associate with integrity and progress.
you do at least adhere to this philosophy because you've often lamented about how white males in particular should be subjugated, the only part that doesnt hold true which is your 'progressiveness' is that you arent the firt to volunteered to get assfucked into slavery by blacks as penance for the crimes of your forefathers nor have you show your own eagerness to surrender all you have to the womyn of the world to set the example for all men
so once again it's a case of the liberals stealing from others and bragging about how charitable they are
Quote:
I mean there is more to feminism than what you say, obviously, and this sort of half-truth that people seem to find so convincing is a problem to me on a much higher order than some coming-of-age feminists expressing a bias.
no, there isnt. it's a fucking joke and that's all there is to feminism
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: moonrockmushy]
#22231656 - 09/13/15 01:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
Quote:
Can we talk about the rape thing? Why is it that if both a woman and i are drunk the whole consent thing sides with her? Why can't I be a rape victim? I'm shit faced too. waaaaa i cant make decisions for myself wwwwwwaaaaa
As far as I know, you can. I think it just doesn't happen that often for a number of reasons, and I would say most serious discussion of the factors behind rape statistics has happened within feminism.
If you got drunk with a woman, and she forced you to have sex without your consent, it would absolutely be rape. I'm not sure how seriously it would be taken, but you've got to consider that there are alot of situations where women are mistreated and then told just to deal with it. It's wrong both ways. Saying that anyone can be raped does not justify ignoring the massive problem of rape because of situations where women lie about being raped, which I believe is far less common than what you imply.
hahaha... the joke that is feminism rear it's ugly little privelidged head again
mean are victims of rape more than women and feminists marginalize ALL rape victims
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: moonrockmushy]
#22231661 - 09/13/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
Quote:
Mescalean said:
You also completely ignored my question about the whole drunken rape scenario and victimizing women as a whole. While you mention others ignoring questions about equality.
this?
Quote:
Can we talk about the rape thing? Why is it that if both a woman and i are drunk the whole consent thing sides with her? Why can't I be a rape victim? I'm shit faced too. waaaaa i cant make decisions for myself wwwwwwaaaaa
As far as I know, you can. I think it just doesn't happen that often for a number of reasons, and I would say most serious discussion of the factors behind rape statistics has happened within feminism.
If you got drunk with a woman, and she forced you to have sex without your consent, it would absolutely be rape. I'm not sure how seriously it would be taken, but you've got to consider that there are alot of situations where women are mistreated and then told just to deal with it. It's wrong both ways. Saying that anyone can be raped does not justify ignoring the massive problem of rape because of situations where women lie about being raped, which I believe is far less common than what you imply.
Also, to say that this is not something that feminism cares about is just kinda insulting to your own awareness of the subject. I know that you probably met some feminists who said something offensive to make you uncomfortable, but I could give you a dozen articles right now where feminists address the subject of male and female rape. It's not very relevant to the shroomery, and I'm honestly not looking to be an agent of feminism here, but as well as people who fit the stereotype there are many more who are just normal people, and some even who are very coherent and sensible people.
Okay, if you supply the articles I'll read them. The majority of feminists I and plenty of others seem to have met are some of the most sexist people around. And the majority is always the face of the movement.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: Mescalean]
#22231727 - 09/13/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mescalean said:
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I'd like to say "how many times is the shroomery going to stir this pot?"
But just as interesting, BC, is how many times you are going to stir the same pot?
You seem to be really fond of it.
He's been making a few threads to stir the pot lately.
Stirring the pot makes for good discussion.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: Mescalean] 1
#22231740 - 09/13/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mescalean said:
Okay, if you supply the articles I'll read them. The majority of feminists I and plenty of others seem to have met are some of the most sexist people around. And the majority is always the face of the movement.
Here is feminism totally ignoring men's problems resulting from rape and just calling all men rapists:
http://jezebel.com/he-said-she-said-the-mythical-history-of-the-false-ra-1720945752
http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/12/male-rape-epidemic/
http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/08/bias-against-fathers/
https://queerguesscode.wordpress.com/2013/02/06/the-truth-about-feminism-and-child-custody-discrimination/
http://now.org/blog/how-feminism-and-now-have-helped-men/
I'm glad you're taking an interest
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: moonrockmushy]
#22231749 - 09/13/15 01:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Already had interest otherwise why comment in this thread? Our interests just differ in the subject.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: Mescalean]
#22231893 - 09/13/15 01:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I mean this stuff is pretty easy to find with a simple google search. If that is not serious enough you can search academic papers, which can be pretty dry but I think disprove the notion that feminists are belligerent and fail to take criticism of feminism into consideration.
It just makes me think that someone has a selective bias when all this information is available, yet people constantly bring it up these same subjects over and over as if it is some great new angle that invalidates feminism. It is necessary that people either have the same opinion of feminism as you, which isn't found in any textbook, or understand that you are talking about feminists as you perceive them i.e. "the majority" of feminists. These vague qualifiers become attached, but it is clear the intent is to invalidate all of feminism.
Disliking how feminists go about things is not being an anti-feminist. It is being a normal person who is frustrated with politics and people who you feel are losing sight of their core values. If you feel men are entitled to subjugate women, you aren't a feminist. Nobody has to make a big deal of it if you think the whole business is stupid, but people here seem invested in twisting the meaning of the word which is bothersome to me on many levels.
Edited by moonrockmushy (09/13/15 01:53 PM)
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: moonrockmushy]
#22231971 - 09/13/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: I mean this stuff is pretty easy to find with a simple google search. If that is not serious enough you can search academic papers, which can be pretty dry but I think disprove the notion that feminists are belligerent and fail to take criticism of feminism into consideration.
It just makes me think that someone has a selective bias when all this information is available, yet people constantly bring it up these same subjects over and over as if it is some great new angle that invalidates feminism. It is necessary that people either have the same opinion of feminism as you, which isn't found in any textbook, or understand that you are talking about feminists as you perceive them i.e. "the majority" of feminists. These vague qualifiers become attached, but it is clear the intent is to invalidate all of feminism.
Disliking how feminists go about things is not being an anti-feminist. It is being a normal person who is frustrated with politics and people who you feel are losing sight of their core values. If you feel men are entitled to subjugate women, you aren't a feminist. Nobody has to make a big deal of it if you think the whole business is stupid, but people here seem invested in twisting the meaning of the word which is bothersome to me on many levels.
And you mainly have 3rd wave to blame for the word being twisted, I get it started as an equality movement. It's just changed into some bad now. It's no longer about equality.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: Mescalean]
#22232098 - 09/13/15 02:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I mean it's hard for me to ignore that there are more women in higher education and policy-making decisions than ever before, but it is still not equal, and has never got to that point. Absolute equality is a theoretical construct that can not be fully achieved in this day and age, but there are many small things adding up to positive changes in many aspects of out society that should not be overlooked.
In my opinion the most influential feminists are teachers, working mothers, homemakers, and just regular workers who challenge their own boundaries of what it means to be a woman and pass on that legacy to others by being role models for boys and girls alike. In that sense feminism has always existed, and still exists without the need for labels to justify it.
Some people just get bogged down in their negative opinions of feminists, which I guess reflects that some feminists seek to blame straight white men exclusively for their problems. I say let these people fight it out with eachother, go find one of them if you want to confront the problem, for the rest of us it is just a thing that we learned about in school that is part of our shared history and values, even if it causes some people to have mixed feelings. You've got to look at "am I guilty of the same thing?" before accusing all feminists of unfairly judging and failing to acknowledge both sides of an argument.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: moonrockmushy]
#22232133 - 09/13/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: I mean it's hard for me to ignore that there are more women in higher education and policy-making decisions than ever before, but it is still not equal
why exactly is that, could it be that men are more likely to run for public office than women, that women are less inclined to do so? is feminism advocating that women shouldnt have the right to NOT hold a position as a policy maker, sounds like feminism is about forced servitude for women to serve other women
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: Prisoner#1]
#22232152 - 09/13/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I guess if you want to look at it like that
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kakashi68
Connoiseur of Illicit Substances


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Re: Are you a feminist? (this question is for the dudes) [Re: moonrockmushy]
#22232169 - 09/13/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Like look at modern day male/female interactions. Completely fucked, or human human interaction. It was so nice back in the day. Male has job, female does family things. Female needs man to survive. Male needs female to survive. Co dependence makes everything nice. But now, its just some clusterfuck where everyone is to scared, uptight and busy.
If you want to read some feminist bullshit go to reddit and read twoxchromosomes. Fucking hilarious the bullshit they post there.
Biggest thing is there whole "rape culture" and how VICTIM BLAMING ZOMG YOU CANT BLAME THE VICTIM NO MATTER WHAT. No... your an idiot, you got plastered and allowed yourself to get raped. I dont get plastered and go to sleep in a crack den.
And lets not forget the pay gap which has been proven wrong. Women CHOOSE to go into lower paying fields.
-------------------- You know, just sometimes in between the first cigarette with coffee in the morning to that 400th glass of cornershop piss at 3am--you do sometimes look at yourself and think--this is fantastic. I'm in heaven. -Bernard Black
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