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InvisibleMikeBearPig
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Feminism, why?????? * 2
    #21859659 - 06/26/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.tickld.com/x/next-time-someone-says-women-arent-victims-of-harassment-show-them?utm_source=tickld&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=robothug&ts_pid=2&ts_pid=2

Came across this today, shared on FB by a family member who obviously agree's with this dribble.  I found myself getting upset reading it.. Grinding my teeth at the first double standard and wanting to punch the wall by the 12th.  The line that set me off, " All spaces outside are men spaces that women are passing through".  Really?  How much of a victim do you have to be to think this way.

Lemme explain something.. Cat calling is a cultural byproduct.  You don't see tribe's lining up by the huts and tryin to holla at all the young tribe girls.  It happens, only in places tainted by our culture.  I will even go out on a limb and say, it isn't even that common and the men who do engage in it are usually some sort of bro or guy with that attitude, a desensitized little boy.

On the other hand.. I have been out with several female groups in the past and they actively engage in everything on this list + some.  Who ever made the picture said that men talk about women when they walk by.  I have no idea what kind of females you have hung around with, but even the more upper class girls that I hung out with were just the worst at every offence on this list, directed and geared towards men.

They even put the abortion waiting time on here.. It's mandatory for counseling, a pretty good and logical reason for somebody about to engage in something that is traumatizing.  Why is there a complaint? 

Before my wife had her bilateral mastectomy, she had to do to 2 classes to help ease her and teach her how to change her drains.  Why is there no feminists screaming in the cancer lobby about this?  It is the same thing, a body that belongs to a woman?

I fucking hate everything tainted with this point of view.. Feminism.  It is not about rights anymore, it's about small injustices and people who were't raised with realistic standards of life.

Expecting to go through life with out facing problems, making hard choices, dealing with tough people,feeling emotions you don't want to feel or hearing something that is so true that it hurts you mad..  Well, your the fucking crazy one.  These problems are out there, it is your job to be so strong that you can face them and smile when a guy tells you have a nice ass.  The ability for one's words to affect you has nothing to do with the person talking to you.  You are ill equipped to deal with life and you need to pick up a few skills to help you deal with strangers.

Think about it.. Letting somebody's words affect you is the same thing as them being able to control your mind by uttering a few words.  How can you be susceptible to this?  You are giving away your power in any situation and letting the person control you.  Ain't nobody got time for that.


I don't know what kind of world you want to live in.  In a perfect world, would not everybody that you came in contact with tell you that you have beautiful eyes or good legs?  Or is a perfect world the opposite?  Where nobody say's anything about anybody?  While we walk, we gaze at nothing but our feet for fear of offending anybody.. Never make a conversation because it could possibly traumatize somebody? 

Not the world I would want to live in.


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OfflineHayoxp
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21859675 - 06/26/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, Feminism is now Nazism :havesomescience:


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Enlil is trash, needs to end himself.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig] * 4
    #21859693 - 06/26/15 11:47 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)



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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig] * 1
    #21859734 - 06/26/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I read that yesterday and found that really on point.

I want to live in a world where I can approach a woman and just have smalltalk without there being sexual under-basis. Or them fearing that's the reason I talk to them.

These are the childsteps towards that.


Edited by Beanhead (06/26/15 11:58 AM)


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism] * 1
    #21859751 - 06/26/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure what the actual main point is here, but you guys are making a conscious effort to misrepresent feminism in a negative way, which I can't really understand outside of the argument, "belligerent SJWs are obnoxious" to which I say, so are you.



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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21859758 - 06/26/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MikeBearPig said:

On the other hand.. I have been out with several female groups in the past and they actively engage in everything on this list + some.  Who ever made the picture said that men talk about women when they walk by.  I have no idea what kind of females you have hung around with, but even the more upper class girls that I hung out with were just the worst at every offence on this list, directed and geared towards men.







This is a pretty interesting point, and I've noticed that girls do this stuff too. When I see it happen, they tend be more serious about it though. With guys it's usually something they can laugh off, but with girls the conversation seems to feel more threatening somehow. I've seen it start those nasty girl fights between friends. Maybe some girls tend to have the same attitude when they see a guy engaging in that kind of behavior. It would explain some of the seemingly unmerited defensiveness.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy] * 1
    #21859764 - 06/26/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
I'm not sure what the actual main point is here, but you guys are making a conscious effort to misrepresent feminism in a negative way, which I can't really understand outside of the argument, "belligerent SJWs are obnoxious" to which I say, so are you.






Do you have an actual point to make that is based in facts and reality, or are we relying on personalisms and non-sequitur?
What good is feminism doing for modern society, that outweighs all the MULTITUDES of negatives and harm it causes?

The point is that feminism is cancer. Prove us wrong.

We don't have to make an effort to "misrepresent" feminism in a negative way..  it does that fine all on its own.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism] * 2
    #21859780 - 06/26/15 12:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Feminism is not cancer or Nazi-ism.  Those are completely ridiculous comparisons and I don't even know where to start with them other than saying they are obviously coming from someone who has the idea that women are not inherently equal to men in terms of ability and the respect they deserve as human beings.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy] * 4
    #21859785 - 06/26/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Making assumptions are we? You would be dead wrong. Or should I have my woman come in here and explain it to you.

My beef with feminism has to do with I believe men and women should be treated relatively equally. Feminism, does not want equality.


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InvisibleMikeBearPig
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21859786 - 06/26/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

MikeBearPig said:

On the other hand.. I have been out with several female groups in the past and they actively engage in everything on this list + some.  Who ever made the picture said that men talk about women when they walk by.  I have no idea what kind of females you have hung around with, but even the more upper class girls that I hung out with were just the worst at every offence on this list, directed and geared towards men.







This is a pretty interesting point, and I've noticed that girls do this stuff too. When I see it happen, they tend be more serious about it though. With guys it's usually something they can laugh off, but with girls the conversation seems to feel more threatening somehow. I've seen it start those nasty girl fights between friends. Maybe some girls tend to have the same attitude when they see a guy engaging in that kind of behavior. It would explain some of the seemingly unmerited defensiveness.





I don't want to make it seem like one gender is more extreme than the other.  We both participate in equal practices.  Not all of us do it, it's just the small % of the people who do it that is worth talking about..

I have got kicked out of a restaurant because of a loud conversation about dildo's over dinner with a group of girls.  I never experience this kinda shit with guys, I am also not denying that it does not happen.


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InvisibleMikeBearPig
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Beanhead]
    #21859813 - 06/26/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Feminism is not cancer or Nazi-ism.  Those are completely ridiculous comparisons and I don't even know where to start with them other than saying they are obviously coming from someone who has the idea that women are not inherently equal to men in terms of ability and the respect they deserve as human beings.




What modern day Feminism and the SJW (social justice warriors) have transformed into now is not helpful for us to move on.  It only highlights that we need to help more people deal with the harsh truth of what is reality as of now.

In the future as I explained.. No sense of randomness is boring.


Quote:

Beanhead said:
I read that yesterday and found that really on point.

I want to live in a world where I can approach a woman and just have smalltalk without there being sexual under-basis. Or them fearing that's the reason I talk to them.

These are the childsteps towards that.





You can as of right now approach a woman and just have small talk with out sexual undertones.  Just walk up to one and talk, it really does work.  What does not work is denying that you have sexual desires and trying to fake talking to them.  If they don't understand what it means to be human and think you are only after sex, and if you truly weren't, then move on and try again until you find one that might give you a chance.

Women know instantly if you wanna have sex with them, it's something beyond body language or spoken language.  I truly believe if you approach with good intentions, they can pick up on it.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21859817 - 06/26/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You get kicked out of a restaurant for talking about dildos and feminism is to blame.  :lol: ok.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21859823 - 06/26/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:







I wonder what leading feminists have to say





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InvisibleMikeBearPig
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21859824 - 06/26/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
You get kicked out of a restaurant for talking about dildos and feminism is to blame.  :lol: ok.




I was not actively talking.. I was merely stating that inappropriate conversations can be carried on by either gender.

You are obviously one of the brainwashed, how did you even spin that into that conclusion in your head?


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism] * 2
    #21859838 - 06/26/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I hate to bring up the fact that I'm trans, since everybody else does it for me, but I do feel that my having had significant experience living on both sides of the gender binary gives me some insight into this conversation.

Honestly, I think that well-intentioned but self-conscious men are misinterpreting the complaints feminists make about male-dominated spaces and casual harassment. For example, a lot of guys seem to be unclear on the difference between "catcalling" and "street harassment". Now, IMO, catcalling is completely different from street harassment. Catcalling is not really a problem at all. I actually used to catcall women when I was hormonally male, and when I heard women complaining about "street harassment" I was intensely concerned that I had been engaging in practices that could be considered harassment.

Well let me tell you that catcalling is NOT street harassment. Street harassment is bullying, aggressive, and intrusive. For example, the other day I was at the gas station, and a pair of young men started yelling at me. They said "Hey bitch, put on a fucking bra!" and when I ignored them, repeated this several times. Then as I was getting back into my car they switched it up, calling me a "long-ass bird", laughing and jeering at me.

See, now that, was street harassment. I'd never really witnessed that type of behavior when I was living and presenting myself as male, because people who engage in this type of behavior are cowards. They know that what they are doing is wrong but don't care that it is wrong as long as they don't have reason to expect any tangible consequences, such as from the strength and aggression of another male. They pick almost exclusively on young women who are alone. For some of us, it is a daily occurrence. It makes us feel legitimately unsafe in public and it has a macroscopic chilling effect on women's public participation. Again, when I was living and presenting as male, I'd never experienced this type of treatment at all. It seems to be a phenomenon that uniquely targets women while sparing men of even having to see it or think about it.

When feminists complain of street harassment, this is what they are talking about, but since most men don't witness it very often if at all, they assume women are being oversensitive about more innocent overtures such as whistling or benign one-off comments from a distance. But "harassment" has a clear cut definition and it refers to intrusive, unwanted, and repeated behaviors that have the effect of intimidating their target. We need you, as men who don't cotton to this kind of shit, to understand that we are not talking about you. The fact that you so resent your perceived association with this type of behavior shows that you know how wrong it is.  We don't want you to feel bad about yourselves as guys, there's no doubt most guys are okay. We just want you to know that this stuff DOES HAPPEN and to pay close attention to your fellow males who might not be so scrupulous and to provide for consequences when they do or say fucked up shit.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleMikeBearPig
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #21859850 - 06/26/15 12:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
I hate to bring up the fact that I'm trans, since everybody else does it for me, but I do feel that my having had significant experience living on both sides of the gender binary gives me some insight into this conversation.

Honestly, I think that well-intentioned but self-conscious men are misinterpreting the complaints feminists make about male-dominated spaces and casual harassment. For example, a lot of guys seem to be unclear on the difference between "catcalling" and "street harassment". Now, IMO, catcalling is completely different from street harassment. It's usually not a problem at all. I actually used to catcall women when I was hormonally male, and when I heard women complaining about "street harassment" I was intensely concerned that I had been engaging in practices that could be considered harassment.

Well let me tell you that catcalling is NOT street harassment. Street harassment is bullying, aggressive, and intrusive. For example, the other day I was at the gas station, wearing white skinny jeans and a green t-shirt with no bra, and a pair of young men started yelling at me. They said "Hey bitch, put on a fucking bra!" and when I ignored them, repeated this several times. Then as I was getting back into my car they switched it up, calling me a "long-ass bird", laughing and jeering at me.

See, now that, was street harassment. I'd never really witnessed that type of behavior when I was living and presenting myself as male, because people who engage in this type of behavior are cowards. They know that what they are doing is wrong but don't care that it is wrong as long as they don't have reason to expect any tangible consequences, such as from the strength and aggression of another male. They pick almost exclusively on young women who are alone. For some of us, it is a daily occurrence. It makes us feel legitimately unsafe in public and it has a macroscopic chilling effect on women's public participation. Again, when I was living and presenting as male, I'd never experienced this type of treatment at all. It seems to be a phenomenon that uniquely targets women while sparing men of even having to see it or think about it.

When feminists complain of street harassment, this is what they are talking about, but since most men don't witness it very often if at all, they assume women are being oversensitive about more innocent overtures such as whistling or benign one-off comments from a distance. But "harassment" has a clear cut definition and it refers to intrusive, unwanted, and repeated behaviors that have the effect of intimidating their target. We need you, as men who don't cotton to this kind of shit, to understand that we are not talking about you. The fact that you so resent your perceived association with this type of behavior shows that you know how wrong it is.  We don't want you to feel bad about yourselves as guys, there's no doubt most guys are okay. We just want you to know that this stuff DOES HAPPEN and to pay close attention to your fellow males who might not be so scrupulous and to provide for consequences when they do or say fucked up shit.




Why can't every person explain their point of view this well?  This is how you change peoples minds..


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21859853 - 06/26/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

MikeBearPig said:

On the other hand.. I have been out with several female groups in the past and they actively engage in everything on this list + some.  Who ever made the picture said that men talk about women when they walk by.  I have no idea what kind of females you have hung around with, but even the more upper class girls that I hung out with were just the worst at every offence on this list, directed and geared towards men.







This is a pretty interesting point, and I've noticed that girls do this stuff too. When I see it happen, they tend be more serious about it though. With guys it's usually something they can laugh off, but with girls the conversation seems to feel more threatening somehow. I've seen it start those nasty girl fights between friends. Maybe some girls tend to have the same attitude when they see a guy engaging in that kind of behavior. It would explain some of the seemingly unmerited defensiveness.





I don't want to make it seem like one gender is more extreme than the other.  We both participate in equal practices.  Not all of us do it, it's just the small % of the people who do it that is worth talking about..

I have got kicked out of a restaurant because of a loud conversation about dildo's over dinner with a group of girls.  I never experience this kinda shit with guys, I am also not denying that it does not happen.





It definitely happens in various ways on both sides, but I think there are some gender associated attitudes that affect those kind of topics. Sort of like how guys don't take sexual harassment seriously (they often sexually harass or tease each other as a joke), but girls are more likely to be offended by sexual harassment, even when it's meant as a joke. I think lots of sexual harassment claims are due to a clash of those two attitudes. I'd guess it's similar with stuff like cat calling.


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OfflineCujllickduo
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21859854 - 06/26/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)



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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21859866 - 06/26/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The fact that you disagree with a feminist about what it means to be a woman or what tactics should or shouldn't be employed in the persuit of common feminist goals does not mean you are not a feminist.

This definition:

Quote:

the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.




which comes out of a dictionary (totally biased, right?), compared to what you guys are insinuating feminism is, to me it seems like you guys are exhibiting a selective bias as to how you portray feminism.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21859892 - 06/26/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't agree with harassment whether it comes from either gender, and if I ever saw anyone doing it I would try to put a stop to it.
Just as I rail on feminists who harass, if I saw men harassing women unjustly I will tell them to stop that fucking shit, or if they cross the line I'd have no qualms with knocking someone the fuck out if they are physically assaulting someone or similar. Harassment is harassment.. and no one should have to suffer from it. Or assault for that matter.
I can only go from my own experiences and what my woman tells me about. I've never participated in it personally. She says it's annoying if it happens all the time, but she just ignores and doesn't give them even the time of day.
But it isn't just a sex issue... harassment can effect anyone. I feel most feminists make it out to be always Men vs females, and it's this HUGE social injustice that needs to stop. Men get harassed too. I agree it shouldn't happen.
Now I'm not saying it's not an issue at all.. but I haven't really ever personally witnessed men harassing women to this extreme that is always talked about. Maybe I'm wrong.. but it doesn't seem to me to be this widespread, out of control issue, if we are talking about a few outliers.
The most I've ever seen is catcalling.. which is benign and is basically human nature.. and women participate in it as well. If I see someone being harassed in the street, I would put a stop to that shit.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21859909 - 06/26/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I dont beleive in Feminism in a way the females are then saying they a greater that a man and they get treated differently because they dont get there way and take it the wrong way.


Men are men
Females are females



Edited by Cujllickduo (06/26/15 12:47 PM)


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21859935 - 06/26/15 12:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Men get harassed too but it simply does not occur on the same sort of pervasive, widespread basis. Women can expect to be harassed whenever they go out in public unless they are wearing some equivalent of a burqa. I'm telling you that I've lived daily, public life both as a male and as a female and I was never once harassed, never even SAW harassment when I was a male, but now that I am female it is a routine occurrence.

Again, nobody wants you to feel bad about being a male. Feminists just want you to help us by spending some of your strength and energy on rooting out and ending this type of behavior, or at the very least by setting a strong positive example. Blaming women for their own victimization and characterizing them as oversensitive, lying, manipulative and misandrist for honestly reporting their experiences is not respectful and it is not helpful. It sends harassers the message that you will be looking the other way and it tends to breed the extremist streak feminists sometimes display. Many women have been harassed and then ignored so many times that they have given up on men and learned to see them as the great oppressor. They speak of misogyny in grand, conspiratorial terms because that is in fact the reality they live with. I avoid that type of feminism because I've seen both sides of the coin and I know that most men are well-meaning but imperfect people who wish no wrong by women. They mostly just lack the level of trust necessary to sincerely engage with the issues raised by feminism, and this in turn fuels the radicalization of feminism. Feminism pursues equality, not superiority. It works better when men are helping, not hindering.


Edited by Sophistic Radiance (06/26/15 01:32 PM)


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21859939 - 06/26/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So when feminists attack someone it is because they're feminists and not because they are people who may make mistakes or take things to far.  I see what you're saying there but of course I disagree.

You also seem to outright deny that it is possible that an opposing viewpoint to feminism exists in the modern world that would state women are not equal to men and they do not have a right to speak up when they feel they are being mistreated by men.  I also disagree with this and think we only have feminism to thank for the fact that women in today's world can speak up, and in many ways are less oppressed than they were historically in the western world. 

I'm not entirely clear exactly when you think oppression of women stopped being a problem entirely, but again I don't think that ever happened I think it is still too often a problem.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21859945 - 06/26/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

And I would like to reiterate, Shroomism, that you don't see casual harassment of women because you are a man. Harassers are cowards and they would be afraid to do something like that to a woman who was accompanied by a man.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Cujllickduo]
    #21859948 - 06/26/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Like any cause, I believe it's a has it's purpose. Then again, the argument and gains wanting to be achieved must be A) Realsitic, B) Achievable, C) Adhere's to the current society, D) Cost effective.

Feminism is a good cause, it was gaining traction but then it fell victim to it's own popularity and the opportunistic extremist infiltrated one by one adding their agenda one small thing at a time so nobody would notice. Add 10 years and many small extreme arguments and you end up with what we see today.

Its a shame really. Women do deserve equal pay

That's what happens when a movement has no leader and official spokeperson to filter the bullshit. It leaves space for all sort of idiots to go on TV and spew bullshit and then it corrupts the entire thing. That bullshit would be denied and the real idea would be enforced if there was a real leader


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Edited by Patlal (06/26/15 01:00 PM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy] * 1
    #21859951 - 06/26/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I have to go right now but I'll address your questions when I get back


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21859980 - 06/26/15 01:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i honestly cant be arsed to go into a deep conversation

im watching GLASTONBURY :smile:

your all level minded and speak alot of knowledge
Just ignore the ignorant we cant change there minds not a group of people

i wish we could show them the light


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21859989 - 06/26/15 01:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
And I would like to reiterate, Shroomism, that you don't see casual harassment of women because you are a man. Harassers are cowards and they would be afraid to do something like that to a woman who was accompanied by a man.




Honestly I don't really have to take women at their word to know there is sexism still in our society.  I can't fully trust anyone who claims they have not seen a man mistreat a woman because he does not respect women as equal to men.  Alot of the stuff feminists say might seem outrageous if you are operating under the assumption that misogyny stopped existing, or never existed in the first place, but sadly it does. 

Trying to paint feminists as a whole as having some hidden female supremacist agenda is highly suspicious to me, and seems to stem from the conservative notion that regardless of what people feel is important in their hearts the fact that oppression of women exists is all that is needed to justify oppression of women.  That is not misogyny to them, those women deserve the treatment they get because if they didn't they would be men.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Patlal]
    #21859992 - 06/26/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

We all deserve equal rights not just woman everybody

its fucking crazy that it still going on in this day an age

i agree with some words you say


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #21859993 - 06/26/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Like any cause, I believe it's a has it's purpose. Then again, the argument and gains wanting to be achieved must be A) Realsitic, B) Achievable, C) Adhere's to the current society, D) Cost effective.

Feminism is a good cause, it was gaining traction but then it fell victim to it's own popularity and the opportunistic extremist infiltrated one by one adding their agenda one small thing at a time so nobody would notice. Add 10 years and many small extreme arguments and you end up with what we see today.

Its a shame really. Women do deserve equal pay





Nobody deserves equal fucking pay.

You need to get paid based on how well you preform your job.  If you do not preform it well, you don't deserve the same wage, end of story.  Gender not needed in this situation.  Equal pay is fantasy land.

We hired a girl fresh out of the army to unload trucks at Petsmart.  It's a grueling 6 hour task of lifting 40 pound bags of litter and food hundreds of times an hour, bending over and restacking.  40 min into her first shift, which she assured us that she could complete she had to go home and we had to reposition her in the store, causing a lost of hours for other people and chaos because corporate wants you to hire people and do it 100% right. 

She should of got fired for lying that she could do a job that she clearly could not do, yet due to these opinions about equal pay and rights, the company would get sued because taking action for their own well being.

It's not wrong to assume that a most men are going to preform better in cases where being psychical is necessary, but we are unable to have this conversation with out having some twist to destroy the feminine attitude.

The biggest complaint I see, and have seen MANY times over years is that there is no gender diversity in the tech industry. The pay gaps are hugely unequal and women are usually shafted.

While all that is true, let's take a look at a feminine world where guys are treated the exact same, even worse than women in the tech industry.  Yes, the luscious world of modeling.  Where the pay gaps are so extreme from women to men that it overshadows any figure you can present from the tech industry.

Yet.. it is not a charged topic because women are clearly not the victim in this case.  It is the exact same thing any way you spin in.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21860007 - 06/26/15 01:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i've seen far more females mistreat males in my time than vice-versa, not kidding either. i guess i've had an odd set of life experiences in that sense :shrug:


--------------------
"Ur cat died because he hated u" - Koods
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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21860010 - 06/26/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Like any cause, I believe it's a has it's purpose. Then again, the argument and gains wanting to be achieved must be A) Realsitic, B) Achievable, C) Adhere's to the current society, D) Cost effective.

Feminism is a good cause, it was gaining traction but then it fell victim to it's own popularity and the opportunistic extremist infiltrated one by one adding their agenda one small thing at a time so nobody would notice. Add 10 years and many small extreme arguments and you end up with what we see today.

Its a shame really. Women do deserve equal pay





Nobody deserves equal fucking pay.

You need to get paid based on how well you preform your job.  If you do not preform it well, you don't deserve the same wage, end of story.  Gender not needed in this situation.  Equal pay is fantasy land.

We hired a girl fresh out of the army to unload trucks at Petsmart.  It's a grueling 6 hour task of lifting 40 pound bags of litter and food hundreds of times an hour, bending over and restacking.  40 min into her first shift, which she assured us that she could complete she had to go home and we had to reposition her in the store, causing a lost of hours for other people and chaos because corporate wants you to hire people and do it 100% right. 

She should of got fired for lying that she could do a job that she clearly could not do, yet due to these opinions about equal pay and rights, the company would get sued because taking action for their own well being.

It's not wrong to assume that a most men are going to preform better in cases where being psychical is necessary, but we are unable to have this conversation with out having some twist to destroy the feminine attitude.

The biggest complaint I see, and have seen MANY times over years is that there is no gender diversity in the tech industry. The pay gaps are hugely unequal and women are usually shafted.

While all that is true, let's take a look at a feminine world where guys are treated the exact same, even worse than women in the tech industry.  Yes, the luscious world of modeling.  Where the pay gaps are so extreme from women to men that it overshadows any figure you can present from the tech industry.

Yet.. it is not a charged topic because women are clearly not the victim in this case.  It is the exact same thing any way you spin in.




Well that's the 1900s way of thinking.


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InvisibleMikeBearPig
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Patlal]
    #21860018 - 06/26/15 01:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Like any cause, I believe it's a has it's purpose. Then again, the argument and gains wanting to be achieved must be A) Realsitic, B) Achievable, C) Adhere's to the current society, D) Cost effective.

Feminism is a good cause, it was gaining traction but then it fell victim to it's own popularity and the opportunistic extremist infiltrated one by one adding their agenda one small thing at a time so nobody would notice. Add 10 years and many small extreme arguments and you end up with what we see today.

Its a shame really. Women do deserve equal pay





Nobody deserves equal fucking pay.

You need to get paid based on how well you preform your job.  If you do not preform it well, you don't deserve the same wage, end of story.  Gender not needed in this situation.  Equal pay is fantasy land.

We hired a girl fresh out of the army to unload trucks at Petsmart.  It's a grueling 6 hour task of lifting 40 pound bags of litter and food hundreds of times an hour, bending over and restacking.  40 min into her first shift, which she assured us that she could complete she had to go home and we had to reposition her in the store, causing a lost of hours for other people and chaos because corporate wants you to hire people and do it 100% right. 

She should of got fired for lying that she could do a job that she clearly could not do, yet due to these opinions about equal pay and rights, the company would get sued because taking action for their own well being.

It's not wrong to assume that a most men are going to preform better in cases where being psychical is necessary, but we are unable to have this conversation with out having some twist to destroy the feminine attitude.

The biggest complaint I see, and have seen MANY times over years is that there is no gender diversity in the tech industry. The pay gaps are hugely unequal and women are usually shafted.

While all that is true, let's take a look at a feminine world where guys are treated the exact same, even worse than women in the tech industry.  Yes, the luscious world of modeling.  Where the pay gaps are so extreme from women to men that it overshadows any figure you can present from the tech industry.

Yet.. it is not a charged topic because women are clearly not the victim in this case.  It is the exact same thing any way you spin in.




Well that's the 1900s way of thinking.




Sure is.. The people with your point of view are people who are unwilling to be good at what they do.  I find it fucking lazy to assume that you deserve equal pay to somebody who out preforms you in every way.

So, go fuck yourself if you want to live in 2015 fantasy fucking land you lazy piece of shit.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21860057 - 06/26/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So you think the trend of more women in the workplace and moving towards equal pay is not because women are equally capable as men in the workplace, it is because feminism gives them an unfair advantage?

Just so we're clear.  Misogyny does not explain any unjust treatment of women, that is feminist horseshit women who were mistreated were probably asking for it, but when women succeed in traditionally male-dominated areas it is only because they were given an unfair advantage through feminism aka the female division of the Nazi party.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21860095 - 06/26/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What I am saying is, unrealistic expectations and assumptions are keeping us from having conversations that need to be had.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21860099 - 06/26/15 01:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Like any cause, I believe it's a has it's purpose. Then again, the argument and gains wanting to be achieved must be A) Realsitic, B) Achievable, C) Adhere's to the current society, D) Cost effective.

Feminism is a good cause, it was gaining traction but then it fell victim to it's own popularity and the opportunistic extremist infiltrated one by one adding their agenda one small thing at a time so nobody would notice. Add 10 years and many small extreme arguments and you end up with what we see today.

Its a shame really. Women do deserve equal pay





Nobody deserves equal fucking pay.

You need to get paid based on how well you preform your job.  If you do not preform it well, you don't deserve the same wage, end of story.  Gender not needed in this situation.  Equal pay is fantasy land.

We hired a girl fresh out of the army to unload trucks at Petsmart.  It's a grueling 6 hour task of lifting 40 pound bags of litter and food hundreds of times an hour, bending over and restacking.  40 min into her first shift, which she assured us that she could complete she had to go home and we had to reposition her in the store, causing a lost of hours for other people and chaos because corporate wants you to hire people and do it 100% right. 

She should of got fired for lying that she could do a job that she clearly could not do, yet due to these opinions about equal pay and rights, the company would get sued because taking action for their own well being.

It's not wrong to assume that a most men are going to preform better in cases where being psychical is necessary, but we are unable to have this conversation with out having some twist to destroy the feminine attitude.

The biggest complaint I see, and have seen MANY times over years is that there is no gender diversity in the tech industry. The pay gaps are hugely unequal and women are usually shafted.

While all that is true, let's take a look at a feminine world where guys are treated the exact same, even worse than women in the tech industry.  Yes, the luscious world of modeling.  Where the pay gaps are so extreme from women to men that it overshadows any figure you can present from the tech industry.

Yet.. it is not a charged topic because women are clearly not the victim in this case.  It is the exact same thing any way you spin in.




Well that's the 1900s way of thinking.




Sure is.. The people with your point of view are people who are unwilling to be good at what they do.  I find it fucking lazy to assume that you deserve equal pay to somebody who out preforms you in every way.

So, go fuck yourself if you want to live in 2015 fantasy fucking land you lazy piece of shit.




Thank you for your kind words.

It's not always about the money. I don't give a fuck if the guy next to me does nothing and gets paid more than me, do you know why? Because I get to go home knowing that I did something useful. I know that if an opportunity comes up, I'm the one who'll get it, not him. I don't give a fuck if he can buy a flat screen TV while doing 1% more than what would get him fired. Its his fucking life. The company can toss him on his ass any time they want. If I'm the boss, I toss him out ASAP.

Its a matter of personal satisfaction. Not just money.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig] * 1
    #21860106 - 06/26/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Sounds right to me.  Feminism is disgusting.  The claim that it doesn't vilify men is just lip service.  The culture of victimization mixed with hatred leads to modern feminism.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: DieCommie]
    #21860111 - 06/26/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

How does equal pay good for a company?

It does nothing to serve the purpose of the company.  All it does it make people feel comfortable, which is bad for a company in every way.  People need something to work for, and it drives innovation.

Ohhhh, sooo sorry you can't feel comfortable everywhere you go.  They have work for you that is equal pay with no goals, one of our fine fast food franchises is perfect for you.

Leave the hard work and real pay to people who want to work for it.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: DieCommie]
    #21860113 - 06/26/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

And what leads to the idea that misogyny no longer exists, or never existed in the first place?


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21860123 - 06/26/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

He's probably never seen it :shrug:


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You really are the worst kind of person.



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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21860125 - 06/26/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
And what leads to the idea that misogyny no longer exists, or never existed in the first place?




You can't misrepresent my opinion because it does not rely on gender.

If you are a women and you out preform a man in a task , you deserve more and vice versa.  It is not a gender issue, get over it.

As much as you want it to be, its not.. It's only an issue for people who don't want to work hard.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21860139 - 06/26/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
How does equal pay good for a company?

It does nothing to serve the purpose of the company.  All it does it make people feel comfortable, which is bad for a company in every way.  People need something to work for, and it drives innovation.

Ohhhh, sooo sorry you can't feel comfortable everywhere you go.  They have work for you that is equal pay with no goals, one of our fine fast food franchises is perfect for you.

Leave the hard work and real pay to people who want to work for it.




Something to work for: You advancement in the company, increasing your skill, be happy

Driving innovation: If your employees are happy, they will be passionate

People feeling comfortable: There is no such thing in the private sector. You can get fired tomorrow morning

No goals: That's their problem. They will be unhappy and unfulfilled with their lives.

If management is good, these people will get fired. If these people worked for me, I would fire them. If they are not driven, that means they don't like their jobs. I'm looking for passionate people that have an interest in my business. That's what every corporations should do.

Slackers end up on unemployment.

Plus equal pay means less bullshit. If a guy sees another guy in the same position and hire at the same time make more than they do, trust me, they will whine and bitch and claim they work just as much (even if its not true), then they'll start there "shit is unfair" rant. Then they'll resent the other guy, they'll hate management. All that shit. He might be a good employee himself, which is why he'll be bitching. Sure the other might be better, but equal pay is more advantagous to the company then all the bullshit. If you want direct pay for drect effort, get a sales job with commision


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Patlal]
    #21860150 - 06/26/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
How does equal pay good for a company?

It does nothing to serve the purpose of the company.  All it does it make people feel comfortable, which is bad for a company in every way.  People need something to work for, and it drives innovation.

Ohhhh, sooo sorry you can't feel comfortable everywhere you go.  They have work for you that is equal pay with no goals, one of our fine fast food franchises is perfect for you.

Leave the hard work and real pay to people who want to work for it.




Something to work for: You advancement in the company, increasing your skill, be happy

Driving innovation: If your employees are happy, they will be passionate

People feeling comfortable: There is no such thing in the private sector. You can get fired tomorrow morning

No goals: That's their problem. They will be unhappy and unfulfilled with their lives.

If management is good, these people will get fired. If these people worked for me, I would fire them. If they are not driven, that means they don't like their jobs. I'm looking for passionate people that have an interest in my business. That's what every corporations should do.

Slackers end up on unemployment.

Plus equal pay means less bullshit. If a guy sees another guy in the same position and hire at the same time make more than they do, trust me, they will whine and bitch and claim they work just as much (even if its not true), then they'll start there "shit is unfair" rant. Then they'll resent the other guy, they'll hate management. All that shit. He might be a good employee himself, which is why he'll be bitching. Sure the other might be better, but equal pay is more advantagous to the company then all the bullshit. If you want direct pay for drect effort, get a sales job with commision




I find giving them equal pay to end their bullshit just submitting to the problem.


Something to work for: You advancement in the company, increasing your skill, be happy
Not going to happen with out a intensive, fantasy land

Driving innovation: If your employees are happy, they will be passionate

People feeling comfortable: There is no such thing in the private sector. You can get fired tomorrow morning

That is what equal pay is. And no, you cant get fired for the reason you need to be fired.  Like not being able to do a psychical demanding job.

No goals: That's their problem. They will be unhappy and unfulfilled with their lives.
Thats great, again, no benefit to the company, a waste of time and money.  Keep your goals out of my business, you don't deserved to get hired by anybody let alone equal pay


Edited by MikeBearPig (06/26/15 01:53 PM)


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21860248 - 06/26/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Listen. I work part time for a book store for minimum salary. I don't need this job at all. I work there because I have too much free time on my hand. Some weeks I get 30 hours, some week I get 16.

Incentive: Technically speaking, fuck all.

And yet I'm here sitting at home writing notes on my own time on how to improve the process. Just today I went into work a few hours after my shift ended this morning just to take measurements of the backroom  so I could fuck around and see if I can make more out of the space we have since we are walking on each other's feet.

Nobody asked me to do this.

I'm doing this for free, on my own time because I love books and I want to make sure more people read. I'm passionate.

Sure I might be the only one. But people like me exist. People create their own incentives.

I'm not alone in the world doing this. Granted I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit and I should be starting my own business instead of wasting my time at minimum salary. But I kinda like the job.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Patlal]
    #21860300 - 06/26/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I wish I could do that but over here we have a hard time getting through each week buying food and paying bills so we work and we do overhours and we work hard so we earn more.

:shrug:


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21860359 - 06/26/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

In reference to that poorly written article: the desire to not be harassed is not a product of feminism.  Just because you're not a witness to it, does not mean its not happening. I think Blindsophist gives a pretty accurate view of this from both sides of the argument.

I would by no means, label myself a feminist, but there are multiple instances in which I have been harassed on the street by some asshole that thinks its appropriate to say vile sexual things to me while I'm just going about my day.  It can be truly menacing, and I have had instances in which I have feared for my safety. 

I've got no problem with a guy coming up to me and asking me if I'm single, or saying that I look beautiful.  I am fully aware that for most guys, its a numbers game, and the more women you hit on, the more likely it is that someone will say yes.  In truth, its flattering, regardless of whom the compliment comes from.  There's a big difference between that, and aggressive harassment that leaves me feeling physically unsafe in my own neighborhood.

And you're right, words can only harm us if we allow them to. There are some women that are far more sensitive than others, and they need to grow some thicker skin.  But it boils down to the fact that in general, we are smaller and physically not as strong as our male counterparts.  We grow up with the understanding that if a male really wanted to overpower us, they probably could.  Its a terrifying reality.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21860379 - 06/26/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Men get harassed too but it simply does not occur on the same sort of pervasive, widespread basis. Women can expect to be harassed whenever they go out in public unless they are wearing some equivalent of a burqa. I'm telling you that I've lived daily, public life both as a male and as a female and I was never once harassed, never even SAW harassment when I was a male, but now that I am female it is a routine occurrence.

Again, nobody wants you to feel bad about being a male. Feminists just want you to help us by spending some of your strength and energy on rooting out and ending this type of behavior, or at the very least by setting a strong positive example. Blaming women for their own victimization and characterizing them as oversensitive, lying, manipulative and misandrist for honestly reporting their experiences is not respectful and it is not helpful. It sends harassers the message that you will be looking the other way and it tends to breed the extremist streak feminists sometimes display. Many women have been harassed and then ignored so many times that they have given up on men and learned to see them as the great oppressor. They speak of misogyny in grand, conspiratorial terms because that is in fact the reality they live with. I avoid that type of feminism because I've seen both sides of the coin and I know that most men are well-meaning but imperfect people who wish no wrong by women. They mostly just lack the level of trust necessary to sincerely engage with the issues raised by feminism, and this in turn fuels the radicalization of feminism. Feminism pursues equality, not superiority. It works better when men are helping, not hindering.



Young men get challenged to fight all the time.  It is something they deal with far more than women. 


On my crew if you catcall or disrespect anyone in any way you get one warning.  One.  Saying hi is not cat calling and smiling at a woman is not catcalling but I'm not a big fan of anybody commenting on anybody else's appearance even in a positive way.  I'll do the talking.  You do the work and shut the fuck up


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21860467 - 06/26/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I never got challenged to fights when I was presenting as a male, and I used to go out and get drunk at bars and parties, some in pretty rough neighborhoods, all the time. But then again, I was never exactly the hurly-burly type in the first place so I probably didn't make a very attractive target. I once got my scrawny drunken ass handed to me by a big guy after I tried to woo his big recently-ex girlfriend. That sucked, but the case could be made that I had it coming, and I didn't sustain any serious injuries. That was about it. :shrug:

I guess catcalling (i.e. whistling, etc.) is kind of a gray area. It's certainly not respectful, but it's not on the same level as harassment. Honestly, when a stranger in public has a smoking hot body and you feel the need to express your fleeting attraction, the classy thing to do is to compliment their clothing, i.e. "I love your pants" stands in for "nice ass", you say "cool necklace" when what you really mean is "I want nothing in the world more than to motorboat you this instant", etc. I don't know why this is lost on so many people.


Edited by Sophistic Radiance (06/26/15 02:58 PM)


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #21860488 - 06/26/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)


.


Edited by Beanhead (01/19/16 09:57 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21860494 - 06/26/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I wasn't pretending to be a tough guy either but I got a fair share of challenges.  :shrug:  There is no shortage of assholes who just like to fight.



Like I said, my crew doesn't do that.  And that goes for clothing as well.  If you wouldn't say it to a man you don't say it to a woman.  Period.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21860517 - 06/26/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

sir, if someone looks/took the time to look classy/fashionable you get compliments:snub:

:heart:

But work ethic is work ethic :thumbup:


Edited by Beanhead (06/26/15 03:04 PM)


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21860519 - 06/26/15 03:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i compliment guys shirts all the time and same with chicks, with no hidden agenda


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sheekle]
    #21860524 - 06/26/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sheekle said:
i compliment guys shirts all the time and same with chicks, with no hidden agenda




Right, it's just normal. But I guess you have to be careful with a construction crew since that profession is so notorious for catcalling and harassment.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy] * 1
    #21860589 - 06/26/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
So when feminists attack someone it is because they're feminists and not because they are people who may make mistakes or take things to far.  I see what you're saying there but of course I disagree.

You also seem to outright deny that it is possible that an opposing viewpoint to feminism exists in the modern world that would state women are not equal to men and they do not have a right to speak up when they feel they are being mistreated by men.  I also disagree with this and think we only have feminism to thank for the fact that women in today's world can speak up, and in many ways are less oppressed than they were historically in the western world. 

I'm not entirely clear exactly when you think oppression of women stopped being a problem entirely, but again I don't think that ever happened I think it is still too often a problem.





Right. So... first of all can you please show me this thing about women not being equal to men in the first world? Because you would be right.
Women are given preferential treatment OVER men in MANY situations. Can you give examples of these rights men have that women don't? How about these:

Parental rights:

In California and Montana, A woman can name any man she likes as the father, he gets a letter in the mail, if he does not prove he isn’t the father within 30 days—(suppose the letter gets lost by the USPS?)—he is now the father and must pay. He cannot contest it.

An underage boy who is the victim of statutory rape must pay child support to his rapist when he becomes an adult.

A man who fathers a child and wishes to take custody may have his child adopted out against his will and essentially kidnapped

Right of due process and Trial by a Jury of One’s Peers:

Men who are accused of rape on a University campus can have their right of due process and trial by a jury of their peers stripped from them. In place of it, they can then be “convicted” by the university if the investigating body believes there is a 50.0001% chance that the man committed the rape.

In addition, the accused is not allowed to seek any outside legal counsel, also taking away his right to an attorney.

men are also demonized as rapists due to unequal rape laws that favor women. when you analyze the situation you’ll find that women rape almost as often as men (about 40% of rapists are women) and men are raped just as often if not more than women.

In 2008, a law was passed in England and Wales that allowed long-term domestic violence victims who killed their abuser to be charged with the lesser charge of manslaughter, but this only applies to women.

Women who falsely accuse a man of rape, who would be sent to prison for 10+ years if convicted, usually only gets fined or a slap on the wrist.

Men who are falsely accused of rape can have their names published and their lives ruined even if they are not convicted or charged - their accuser is protected and is likely to face no punishment, or a light one.

Secondly, I don't see so-called "men's rights activists".. actively fighting against and campaigning AGAINST women's rights.
Feminism has been allowed to have all their speeches and campaigns and meetings, there isn't radical men's rights activist busting in and trying to silence and censor them
But I see "Feminism" doing it ALL THE TIME against men... IN THE NAME OF FEMINISM. We aren't talking about a few individuals making mistakes or taking things too far.
Here are just a few examples. I've posted some of these before.

Feminists protest and prevent a meeting addressing helping to prevent male suicide
Angry feminists disrupt and shut down a forum for battered husbands
Feminists don't want the government to help unemployed men
Feminists against equal custody laws

Feminists want to create rape laws that exclude women from being charged with rape
Feminists want to shut down female prisons
Feminist want to make it impossible to charge women with rape
Female felons should serve jail sentences at home
Feminists launch campaigns to help girls ONLY in school, while boys are doing worse in EVERY facet of education.
Feminists make sure the gov doesn’t spend money on male shelters or male research.
Founder of Canada's only male shelter for abuse forced to close due to lack of funding before committing suicide.
Feminists send death threats to Erin Pizzey for saying men need abuse shelters too
Feminist changes her mind about "rape culture", when her son is falsely accused of rape.
Feminist attacks a male cartoonist and is hailed a hero of feminism

Extremist feminists stage a mock murder of man and then celebrate
Feminists vandalize and attack a church
Feminists say men cannot be raped
Feminists against Father's day

Study shows that in domestic violence cases, the violence is reciprocal in almost 50% of cases, and in nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases.
But all we ever hear about is male violence against females.
Feminists say men aren't allowed to talk about domestic abuse
Feminists blame males for their abuse.
Feminists cover up female domestic violence
The primary aggressor clause where only men get charged with abuse.
Feminist makes up fake assault stories
Jezebel encourages and mocks men who are abused

Virtually ALL of these things are done IN THE NAME OF FEMINISM, by self-proclaimed feminists and feminist groups. Are you trying to tell me, that all of these things is just a few isolated incidents of crazy people 'taking things too far and making mistakes'? These are not outliers or just a few extremists. This is the FACE of modern feminism. This is the STANDARD which modern feminism operates on. Just because there are a few sensible and moderate "true" feminists out there, does not discount all this fucking insanity that has made its way into, and is completely accepted by mainstream society.

If "men's rights activists" protested, disrupted and ultimately shut down a forum about Female abuse survivors, or discussing how to help prevent female suicide... you can bet your ass there would be OUTRAGE, likely national media attention and feminists going fucking insane and trying to get them shut down or charged with a crime.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21860597 - 06/26/15 03:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

In Canada men and women firefighters have different stardards to become a fireman and fight unbiased fires.:peace::tongue2:


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shortknight]
    #21860614 - 06/26/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shortknight said:
In Canada men and women firefighters have different stardards to become a fireman and fight unbiased fires.:peace::tongue2:





This is a perfect example of an area where if you do not lay the line down, it could cost somebody their life.  Very strict hiring policies and if somebody cant make the cut, they get cut.  End of story.  You can't do the job, you get fired or it will cost a person(s) their life.

We must accept that we are a sexually dimorphic species and some jobs just suit men better than women, end of story.

If you are looking for a job and you are a 105lbs woman and you see that the job requirement says, "Must be able to lift 50lbs bags for 6 hours"..

This is a sign to you that you are not welcome.  It's not because you are a woman, it's because you simply cannot do the job correctly and to the standards that we need.

Some people view these as a challenge, take the companies to court.. blah blah, we know the deal.  If you get the idea that the job is trying to tell you to fuck off before you are getting hired, find work elsewhere. 

EVEN IF YOU ARE MALE, you can still fucking suck at your job and not do it right.  Which seemed to be demonstrated every day by our youth in every aspect of our job.  I experienced this every day first hand, men don't deserve equal pay either. 



Edited by MikeBearPig (06/26/15 03:41 PM)


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shortknight]
    #21860618 - 06/26/15 03:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

If you are even a women here and pass the academy you will be hired FAST... My friend is in peak physical condition and pretty sure he's been trying to get on for 2 years now.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21860634 - 06/26/15 03:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Shroomism, do you think it would be possible to address the points I made on the last two pages? I thought I made some pretty good points, but you seemed to ignore them in your reply to my first post in the thread, so I'll reiterate them again for you.

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Now I'm not saying it's not an issue at all.. but I haven't really ever personally witnessed men harassing women to this extreme that is always talked about. Maybe I'm wrong.. but it doesn't seem to me to be this widespread, out of control issue, if we are talking about a few outliers.




This is the crux of the issue. You haven't witnessed it personally, so you don't believe it exists. But it does exist. You don't see it because the harassers are hiding it from you. They are cowards and they know that you will kick their asses if you see it and they don't want to get into trouble so they just don't do it when you are around.

We are not talking about outliers here. We are talking about something that happens to many women every day of their lives in public. Nor are we talking about mere catcalling. We are talking about aggressive bullying, verbal abuse and intimidation. Harassment. Read my first post in the thread for an example. Again, you don't see it, but it happens all the time and ignoring it won't make it go away.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shortknight] * 2
    #21860637 - 06/26/15 03:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Men are harassed as much as women. just in different ways. Men are direct and throw direct insults. Women are silly and get upset over little things. There was an experiment done where women did this to men such as saying "id love to wreck your dick" every man enjoyed it because there not weak emotionally unstable uptight females.

Women however are indirect and hurt people in a much more horrible way. Every woman ever will talk shit about people when your not in the room. They will also spread rumors and hate about you if they want to. They to chicken shit to do it to your face so they have to be cowards.

Its hard to get on board with feminism when its about making women superior rather than equals. Or even respecting that fact that men and women are different and should be treated as equals but rather proportionately at the right time.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: kakashi68]
    #21860667 - 06/26/15 03:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kakashi68 said:
Men are harassed as much as women. just in different ways. Men are direct and throw direct insults. Women are silly and get upset over little things. There was an experiment done where women did this to men such as saying "id love to wreck your dick" every man enjoyed it because there not weak emotionally unstable uptight females.

Women however are indirect and hurt people in a much more horrible way. Every woman ever will talk shit about people when your not in the room. They will also spread rumors and hate about you if they want to. They to chicken shit to do it to your face so they have to be cowards.

Its hard to get on board with feminism when its about making women superior rather than equals. Or even respecting that fact that men and women are different and should be treated as equals but rather proportionately at the right time.





I saw the video..

It looks like you have some sort of biased view towards females..

Men do the same thing as women.. Assuming only a women will spread a rumor is not right, neither is calling all of them chickenshits afraid to say something to your face. 

It's been the exact opposite for me, most of my female friends won't bat an eye over a comment about their ass.. But say something they actually find offensive and wrong.. They will be sure to tell you everything to your face.

You are again thinking of our view on women as being women, when reality is that it is societies impact on their behavior.  Some are led astray, and this is true for both genders.  Neither is a good example of what a man or women is supposed to be.

Women are not born evil conspiring whispering devils that only want to ruin your life.. They are made.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Patlal] * 2
    #21860682 - 06/26/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Its a shame really. Women do deserve equal pay





Sorry, but you have been lied to by feminist propaganda.

That whole "women earn 70 cents to a man's dollar" myth that is constantly pushed by feminists is complete bullshit.

It does not even account for differences in occupations, positions, education, job tenure or hours worked per week.
When such relevant factors are considered, the wage gap narrows to the point of almost vanishing completely

http://www.examiner.com/article/gender-pay-gap-is-not-what-activists-claim
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf
http://time.com/3222543/5-feminist-myths-that-will-not-die/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/
http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/more-career-options-may-explain-why-fewer-women-pursue-jobs-in-science-and-math.html
The 15 fields where women earn MORE than men for the exact same work.

It's a complex issue, but it boils down to this:

Quote:


Men are far more likely to choose careers that are more dangerous, that naturally pay more (93% of work-related deaths on the job are men)

Men are far more likely to work in higher-paying fields and occupations (by choice) According to the White House report, "In 2009, only 7 percent of female professionals were employed in the relatively high paying computer and engineering fields, compared with 38 percent of male professionals." Professional women, on the other hand, are far more prevalent "in the relatively low-paying education and health care occupations."

Men are far more likely to take work in uncomfortable, isolated, and undesirable locations that pay more.

Men work longer hours than women do. The average fulltime working man works 6 hours per week or 15 percent longer than the average fulltime working woman.

Men are more likely to take jobs that require work on weekends and evenings and therefore pay more.

Even within the same career category, men are more likely to pursue high-stress and higher-paid areas of specialization. For example, within the medical profession, men gravitate to relatively high-stress and high-paying areas of specialization, like surgery, while women are more likely to pursue relatively lower-paid areas of specialization like pediatrician or dentist.

Women business owners make less than half of what male business owners make, which, since they have no boss, means it's independent of discrimination. The reason for the disparity, according to a Rochester Institute of Technology study, is that money is the primary motivator for 76% of men versus only 29% of women. Women place a higher premium on shorter work weeks, proximity to home, fulfillment, autonomy, and safety, according to Nemko

Despite all of the above, unmarried women who've never had a child actually earn more than unmarried men, according to Nemko and data compiled from the Census Bureau.

It's hard to argue with Nemko's position which, simply put, is this: When women make the same career choices as men, they earn the same amount as men. As far as I'm concerned, this is one myth that has been officially and completely busted. Maybe you should celebrate International Women's Day 2011 by empowering women with the truth instead of treating them like victims ... which they're not.





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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism] * 1
    #21860709 - 06/26/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

old problems being touted as relevant today is...not really an issue, it's just obfuscating.

but "modern" feminism as what is proclaimed about here is NOT feminism.

it's misandry. and idiocy.

but feminism is a necessary force, because there are idiot men who will berate woman as inferior, and will try to keep them down. maybe not here, but around.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21860713 - 06/26/15 04:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Men get harassed too but it simply does not occur on the same sort of pervasive, widespread basis. Women can expect to be harassed whenever they go out in public unless they are wearing some equivalent of a burqa. I'm telling you that I've lived daily, public life both as a male and as a female and I was never once harassed, never even SAW harassment when I was a male, but now that I am female it is a routine occurrence.

Again, nobody wants you to feel bad about being a male. Feminists just want you to help us by spending some of your strength and energy on rooting out and ending this type of behavior, or at the very least by setting a strong positive example. Blaming women for their own victimization and characterizing them as oversensitive, lying, manipulative and misandrist for honestly reporting their experiences is not respectful and it is not helpful. It sends harassers the message that you will be looking the other way and it tends to breed the extremist streak feminists sometimes display. Many women have been harassed and then ignored so many times that they have given up on men and learned to see them as the great oppressor. They speak of misogyny in grand, conspiratorial terms because that is in fact the reality they live with. I avoid that type of feminism because I've seen both sides of the coin and I know that most men are well-meaning but imperfect people who wish no wrong by women. They mostly just lack the level of trust necessary to sincerely engage with the issues raised by feminism, and this in turn fuels the radicalization of feminism. Feminism pursues equality, not superiority. It works better when men are helping, not hindering.




You may be completely right. I'm not sure because I haven't ever personally witnessed this harassment and abuse out in public. I did talk with my partner about this. She moved here by herself, from Japan when she was 17 and lived on her own for many years, so she was not only a women but also a minority, she was no stranger to discrimination. She says she did experience a lot of catcalling and some harassment, but she always just brushed it aside and completely ignored them because they do not even deserve the time of day or a reaction.

You may also be right about harassers will almost never try to harass a women when she with her BF or whatever because they are cowards.
Why just the other day, my girl was driving, pulling out of a parking lot, (she had the right of way), and some guy blew through a red light and almost nailed her. At the next red light when she was stopped he got out of his car and ran up screaming at her through the window and pounding on the window calling her a cunt and he was gonna kill her and this and that... she just took off because he was a psychopath. Our 8 month old son was in the backseat with her, she was terrified. Just hearing about that boiled my blood. If I was there and that happened... I would have laid that guy the fuck out and stomped his face in and left him bleeding in the middle of the street. But you may be right, he might not have even tried to pull that if I was with her at the time.

And I agree, we should be there to help. And I am, wherever possible. But when I see the same kind of abuse and harassment coming from Feminism, in the name of "equality"... I have to have a problem with that too.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21860724 - 06/26/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

ya, maybe you might see that at some dumb rally. not just rampant on the streets randomly, however. and the rally is really just protest. no one is really acting on what they're saying, with the exception of some unwieldy idiot's whom are taking the message literally, which i'll admit, is damaging in regards to when people lose their jobs over some misappropriated comment (or shirt)...i'll admit, that's unnecessary idiocy.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21860736 - 06/26/15 04:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
old problems being touted as relevant today is...not really an issue, it's just obfuscating.

but "modern" feminism as what is proclaimed about here is NOT feminism.

it's misandry. and idiocy.

but feminism is a necessary force, because there are idiot men who will berate woman as inferior, and will try to keep them down. maybe not here, but around.




I agree that we need a force, we don't need feminism to be that force though

Women are not the only ones fighting to be equal still.. We are seemingly lost or distracted by all the other people still fighting.  The gay rights movement was HUGE and really put this on the map.  What they failed to learn was..

There are HUNDREDS of different organizations out there fighting for this, yet people only want to highlight their own person problem.  Any specific Ism is worthless unless it is Humanism.  Join together and fight, instead of standing alone.
Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Men get harassed too but it simply does not occur on the same sort of pervasive, widespread basis. Women can expect to be harassed whenever they go out in public unless they are wearing some equivalent of a burqa. I'm telling you that I've lived daily, public life both as a male and as a female and I was never once harassed, never even SAW harassment when I was a male, but now that I am female it is a routine occurrence.

Again, nobody wants you to feel bad about being a male. Feminists just want you to help us by spending some of your strength and energy on rooting out and ending this type of behavior, or at the very least by setting a strong positive example. Blaming women for their own victimization and characterizing them as oversensitive, lying, manipulative and misandrist for honestly reporting their experiences is not respectful and it is not helpful. It sends harassers the message that you will be looking the other way and it tends to breed the extremist streak feminists sometimes display. Many women have been harassed and then ignored so many times that they have given up on men and learned to see them as the great oppressor. They speak of misogyny in grand, conspiratorial terms because that is in fact the reality they live with. I avoid that type of feminism because I've seen both sides of the coin and I know that most men are well-meaning but imperfect people who wish no wrong by women. They mostly just lack the level of trust necessary to sincerely engage with the issues raised by feminism, and this in turn fuels the radicalization of feminism. Feminism pursues equality, not superiority. It works better when men are helping, not hindering.




You may be completely right. I'm not sure because I haven't ever personally witnessed this harassment and abuse out in public. I did talk with my partner about this. She moved here by herself, from Japan when she was 17 and lived on her own for many years, so she was not only a women but also a minority, she was no stranger to discrimination. She says she did experience a lot of catcalling and some harassment, but she always just brushed it aside and completely ignored them because they do not even deserve the time of day or a reaction.

You may also be right about harassers will almost never try to harass a women when she with her BF or whatever because they are cowards.
Why just the other day, my girl was driving, pulling out of a parking lot, (she had the right of way), and some guy blew through a red light and almost nailed her. At the next red light when she was stopped he got out of his car and ran up screaming at her through the window and pounding on the window calling her a cunt and he was gonna kill her and this and that... she just took off because he was a psychopath. Our 8 month old son was in the backseat with her, she was terrified. Just hearing about that boiled my blood. If I was there and that happened... I would have laid that guy the fuck out and stomped his face in and left him bleeding in the middle of the street. But you may be right, he might not have even tried to pull that if I was with her at the time.

And I agree, we should be there to help. And I am, wherever possible. But when I see the same kind of abuse and harassment coming from Feminism, in the name of "equality"... I have to have a problem with that too.




You guys have both been good contributors to this topic, thank you guys for joining.

Blind, I am with shroom on this, on the other hand its hard to ignore your point.

I have NEVER seen or taken part or even heard of any of my guys friends harassing girls on the street.  Yet, I know it does happen. 

What I don't understand is, why do people allow words to get to them?  It is not harassment if you can ignore it.  If it gets psychical it is a totally different story.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21860737 - 06/26/15 04:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
ya, maybe you might see that at some dumb rally. not just rampant on the streets randomly, however.




Right. I've known one person in my entire life who behaves the way Shroomism generalizes feminists, and she is nuts like very few people are. As far as I'm concerned, she is the outlier. I'm pretty sure men don't get assailed by vicious psychopathic "feminists" every time they need to make a run to the store.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism] * 1
    #21860791 - 06/26/15 04:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:rolleyes: Honestly I have no interest in reading all your links.  I wish you could actually address what I said without resorting to: "Look at how many links I have compiled?!?!?  Can u do this?!?!"

Explain to me how someone who advocates for equality between men and women is not a feminist.  You are either for that, or you're not a feminist and believe that the differences between the gender entails some level of designed inequality.  It does not ultimately matter that fem is in the title any more than it matters that man is in the title of mankind.  It's a fucking word and it means what it says in the dictionary, that is how I define things and if you are going to disagree with me there I don't know how we can even have a conversation.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21860836 - 06/26/15 04:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The flip side to that argument is this:

Feminism, by it's own definition - constantly challenges the notion of traditional gender roles - that of men as the "protector and provider" and women as the "nurturer and caregiver".

They want females to be on the same playing field as men.. in pretty much everything.
And that's fine I guess... but then ask anyone.. if a female attacks a man, is it ok for a man to respond by beating the shit out of the women just like he would any other man? You want to hit someone like a man, you should be treated like one?
Most people would say no. Why is that? Is it because men are biologically... on average, stronger and built differently than women, it's not fair?
But if there's no real gender roles and women are completely 100% equal to men, then if a chick punches me, I should be able to beat the shit out of her just like I would with any man that did that to me. But that's not how it works in reality.

If feminists truly want TRUE equality, you can't have your cake and eat it too... they want to be equal, but they want special treatment... that's not how it works.
We are a sexually dimorphic species. There are real differences, both physically, mentally and psychologically.
That's in NO WAY saying women are inferior to men in any way. We are just different, and better suited at different roles.

I can see both sides to the argument. Of course we don't have to be specifically defined by traditional gender roles.. and there are always exceptions to every rule.
I have nothing against women wanting to pursue meaningful careers, or do whatever they want to do.. if they want to be a pro bodybuilder.. go for it. Men can be caretakers too.

But I also see some value in traditional gender roles. I've seen it first hand.. woman are just naturally better suited at taking care of babies. When our son was born, she was immediately attached to him, and he to her. I mean after all, she carried him in her womb for 9 months. I couldn't feed him, and he was just a crying, pissing, eating machine... and he had colic for the first 3 months. I was basically worthless. To be perfectly honest, I was completely frustrated, I couldn't even deal with it most of the time. Without her, I don't know what I would have done. It took some time, but as he grew older and became more aware of his surroundings and began reacting to things, it became much, much easier for me and we began to bond more and more. And on that same token, I have no problem stepping up to fill the role of protector for her and him and being a positive male role model for my son.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21860842 - 06/26/15 04:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i don't know if it's right for anyone to beat on anyone. :shrug:


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21860855 - 06/26/15 04:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, that's not how it works in reality. Violent and crazy people exist. If someone attacks me, or someone I care about that can't defend themselves..  I am going to defend myself/them.

Call me a misogynist or supporting the patriarchy or whatever for that I guess.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21860872 - 06/26/15 04:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
:rolleyes: Honestly I have no interest in reading all your links.  I wish you could actually address what I said without resorting to: "Look at how many links I have compiled?!?!?  Can u do this?!?!"

Explain to me how someone who advocates for equality between men and women is not a feminist.  You are either for that, or you're not a feminist and believe that the differences between the gender entails some level of designed inequality.  It does not ultimately matter that fem is in the title any more than it matters that man is in the title of mankind.  It's a fucking word and it means what it says in the dictionary, that is how I define things and if you are going to disagree with me there I don't know how we can even have a conversation.




So in other words

"I am going to completely ignore all the evidence you presented because it doesn't fit with my narrative"

K.

I think you are confused about the modern definition of feminism, it certainly doesn't stand for equality anymore. Maybe it used to.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21860882 - 06/26/15 04:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well I'll keep checking the dictionary for updates, but until then have fun with your agenda.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21860913 - 06/26/15 05:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Yeah, that's not how it works in reality. Violent and crazy people exist. If someone attacks me, or someone I care about that can't defend themselves..  I am going to defend myself/them.

Call me a misogynist or supporting the patriarchy or whatever for that I guess.



lol, whoa, call you a what now in the whowhat? dude, don't jump to conclusions, i was just making a point.

the point is: you don't see female's running up on anyone and near killing them with their feet and hands. in fact, it's a rarity...unless we're talking cat fights here.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21860935 - 06/26/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Look man. I addressed your points. I find it kind of hilarious this is how you are choosing to engage me in a rational argument.
Sticking your fingers in your ears and going nanny boo boo I can't hear you isn't helping anything. 

I don't judge a group by the dictionary definition. I judge a group / individuals by the ACTIONS they take in REALITY.

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
So when feminists attack someone it is because they're feminists and not because they are people who may make mistakes or take things to far.  I see what you're saying there but of course I disagree.

You also seem to outright deny that it is possible that an opposing viewpoint to feminism exists in the modern world that would state women are not equal to men and they do not have a right to speak up when they feel they are being mistreated by men.  I also disagree with this and think we only have feminism to thank for the fact that women in today's world can speak up, and in many ways are less oppressed than they were historically in the western world. 

I'm not entirely clear exactly when you think oppression of women stopped being a problem entirely, but again I don't think that ever happened I think it is still too often a problem.




So like I said, PLEASE PROVIDE ME WITH CONCRETE EXAMPLES of this discrimination you are talking about. I already addressed the issue, providing you NUMEROUS links and things to back up my claims that feminism is causing harm to society AND pushes for special treatment OVER males and actively FIGHTS AGAINST men's rights. You have yet to refute a single thing and in fact you are telling me you REFUSE to even look at them. That's a typical feminist stance. Yes, let's completely ignore REALITY and just go from dictionary definition. All you have provided me with is an Ani Difranco quote.

You said "when feminists attack someone it is because they're feminists and not because they are people who may make mistakes or take things to far.  I see what you're saying there but of course I disagree.". Well then show me why you disagree. I provided you with numerous cases of FEMINISTS, acting AS FEMINISTS, fighting AGAINST men's rights and demanding preferential treatment over men. These weren't just a couple extremists, doing stupid things. These are LEADING feminists, and feminist groups, acting with purpose. They have gotten LAWS PASSED in their favor.

I never said feminism has always been completely worthless. 50 years ago it was sorely needed. But now - in first world countries, women have ALL THE RIGHTS MEN HAVE.. Feminism was already victorious. Women have their rights... and MORE in many cases. I provided NUMEROUS examples of this. Which you refuse to even acknowledge.

I'm not saying the world is perfect. Far from it. We still have progress to make. There are still issues. But feminism is no longer relevant in the first world, and has taken things way too far in many case.
But to sit here and say women are so oppressed in our first world society.. well I say that's complete and total bullshit, my chick agrees with me. Women are not "oppressed", in America, or Europe, or Japan, or Canada, or any other progressive first world country. Now if you want to go to a country where REAL misogyny and oppression takes place, that's a different story. But if you are going to sit here and tell me poor helpless women are SO OPPRESSED in America/Canada whatever, well then I want you to show me some real tangible evidence of that.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21860946 - 06/26/15 05:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Shroomism said:
Yeah, that's not how it works in reality. Violent and crazy people exist. If someone attacks me, or someone I care about that can't defend themselves..  I am going to defend myself/them.

Call me a misogynist or supporting the patriarchy or whatever for that I guess.



lol, whoa, call you a what now in the whowhat? dude, don't jump to conclusions, i was just making a point.

the point is: you don't see female's running up on anyone and near killing them with their feet and hands. in fact, it's a rarity...unless we're talking cat fights here.




Wasn't necessarily addressing you with that statement.. but I'm sure moonkrockmushy would be glad to call me a misogynist.. in fact he already has.

As for women abuse being a rarity...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21860958 - 06/26/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

To be honest I am not prepared with any links, and don't claim to be able to meet your standards.  Your belligerence in stating that feminism is something other than what I believe it to be and what the dictionary states it as is where this conversation ends as far as I'm concerned.  Read into that however you like, but don't expect me to try to compete with your overwhelming "evidence".


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21860962 - 06/26/15 05:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

people and their action's do not change the meaning of the word, however, and you constantly go off on people claiming that if they're feminist's they must be evil, or something, because they're pretending to ignore misandry. they aren't, they just don't associate feminism with misandry.

Quote:

As for women abuse being a rarity...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/




i am talking about random street violence, not domestic violence. relationships, especially bad one's, are inherently difficult, and people of either/or sex are privy to domestic violence, obviously. because relationship's rile idiot's up. though, that's not the same thing as say someone going and beating someone to a bloody pulp on the streets over a disagreement. men do that more than women, i do believe, because women don't tend to have a disagreement in public and then pummel eachother half to death. sure it happens, but it's not often enough to be even within the vicinity of how often it happen's between males. probably because of less testosterone and vasopressin, i'd presume.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21860990 - 06/26/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
To be honest I am not prepared with any links, and don't claim to be able to meet your standards.  Your belligerence in stating that feminism is something other than what I believe it to be and what the dictionary states it as is where this conversation ends as far as I'm concerned.  Read into that however you like, but don't expect me to try to compete with your overwhelming "evidence".




The 'evidence' is things feminism has actually done, in actual reality. Not what the dictionary defines it as. The ACTIONS that it takes in the real world.
Your belief about what feminism means to you, has nothing to do with it, this has nothing to do with "feelings". I am only dealing with facts here. So show me some facts.





I'll see about getting the dictionary definition of feminism changed.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21861000 - 06/26/15 05:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

not what feminism has actually done, but what feminist's have actually done. and what you're referring to is what MISANDRIST'S have done.

they can call themselves feminist's like i can call myself Mexican, but that doesn't mean that's what they are. it's a faulty syllogism.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21861010 - 06/26/15 05:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

In Somalia women have their vaginal lips scraped off with rusty knives/razors and then it gets sewn tight with only a very miniscule hole left to pee through and the girl is left for weeks in a house/hole somewhere so that they are kept clean/"sacred" for a male when they hit marrying age.

Waris Dirie

This is why I believe in feminism

I know that doesn't reflect our current society but for the reasons stated by Shroomism I think it's pretty invalid some people use feminism as scapegoat. Not all, there are some very valid ones aswell but it's a bit disheartening at times, truely.

Please don't look down on me now, I support and try to better myself each day. Activist/friend but it's a learning process.


Edited by Beanhead (06/26/15 05:46 PM)


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism] * 1
    #21861011 - 06/26/15 05:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So what you're saying is that feminists don't get to define feminism, women don't get to define feminism, you and the other enemies of feminism actually should be the ones to define feminism?

At what point exactly did feminism become irrelevant?  Who was the last real feminist in your opinion?  I'm wondering since you said you agreed with the old definition of feminism that has since been relegated to dictionaries.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21861042 - 06/26/15 05:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

why don't you look at some of the links shroomism provided and then you will see how modern day feminism is a cancer


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: mindbodysoul]
    #21861047 - 06/26/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

but surely enough feminists don't like to look at facts or do research so your just gonna dispute his claims without looking at both sides


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: mindbodysoul]
    #21861056 - 06/26/15 05:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Like I said, I'm not prepared for that.  I've seen all of Shroomisms links before.  If I can find misbehavior exhibited by men who don't respect women as equals or MRAs will you guys shut up?  How many examples will satisfy you?


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: mindbodysoul]
    #21861081 - 06/26/15 05:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mindbodysoul said:
why don't you look at some of the links shroomism provided and then you will see how modern day feminism is a cancer



i did once. seriously. took like hours to do, but i did it once...i even agreed with shroomism on a few points, and then again, i gave my valid reasoning and questioning (and did not pander, only asked shroomism what he thought on certain particular's openly) and you know what happened? i wasted my time, because shroomism apparently was busy with "real life" and didn't have time to address anything i said.

really wish i saved that thread. you know, i found it before, to show shroomism, but he ignored me again. now it's lost forever...my big ass long meandering post's trying to discuss his links...so wtf mate?

remember shroomism? when you posted about school's (which i agreed with) and you posted those parody video's of the little girl preaching to the camera about how her mom told her to read these lines and that everything was contradictory. i found the contradiction's in her words, myself...man hour's spent just addressing everything you said...for nothing. remember shroomykins?


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21861089 - 06/26/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i am not disputing that man don't commit acts of sexism just saying that women are just as bad


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: mindbodysoul]
    #21861098 - 06/26/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

they're probably just reacting to childish petulance like most of this thread. feminism IN EFFECT!


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21861100 - 06/26/15 06:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

amen


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: mindbodysoul]
    #21861108 - 06/26/15 06:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

which just means there's more than feminist's complicit in the petulance. :shrug:


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #21861128 - 06/26/15 06:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It's really wrong to paint all feminism with the same brush, there are many different schools. By definition feminism seeks to achieve gender equality, and agree that women need to be lifted up to reach a place in society that gives them equal freedom and social and economic capacity as men.

Different schools of feminism disagree on:
-whether gender differences between male and female should exist at all. Radical feminism says that all gender differences are artificial constructs of the patriarchy, but most feminists, including myself, think radical feminism is wacky and counterintuitively oppressive to women.
-just how much emancipation and lifting up women actually need
-whether sex workers and trans women should be catered to as equals or stigmatized and excluded from women's spaces
-whether pornography is always oppressive to women or if it can sometimes be empowering
-the degree to which feminists should work on solving forms of oppression that intersect with sexism, i.e. racism, classism, ageism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia

The attitude of mainstream feminism regarding these issues has changed dramatically over the decades and the feminism of today has very little to do with, say, the feminism of the 80's. Third-wave feminism is heavily critical of second-wave feminism, often considering it oppressive to both women and men.

There are more differences than similarities between the different schools of feminism, and most posts I see on the shroomery on the subject oversimplify and dramatize the whole subject to a ludicrously inaccurate degree, portraying feminism as a powerful and monolithic lobby that seeks to enslave men when in fact feminists spend even more time disagreeing with one another as to how equality should be pursued and achieved than they do supposedly stifling men's rights.

Like seriously, Shroomism, you seem a decent guy, so your hardcore antifeminism is kinda confusing to me... you shouldn't have any problem with feminism as a general movement if you generally care about the welfare of women. If you have problems with specific sub-movements of feminism or particular individual feminists, welcome to the club, there are some real assholes out there who do terrible stuff in the name of "feminism". But you'd do much better to critique their actions individually than making incoherent generalizations about feminism as a whole.


Edited by Sophistic Radiance (06/26/15 06:20 PM)


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: mindbodysoul] * 3
    #21861143 - 06/26/15 06:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Is it just me or do people like to bitch about the simplest things that makes us exactly what we are, animals (yes, scientifically, no matter how religious or full of yourself you are you are an animal).

This being said we carry animalistic traits such as the desire to breed. A poster earlier said "I wish there could be small talk with women with no underlying thoughts or sexual desires" sorry bud but that's your body carrying out it's biological purpose. Telling you to inject your dna into someone else. If your body doesn't tell you these things then you really serve no purpose to the continuation of the species.


On a side note as well I've noticed every place I work women openly joke about sexual topics and everything is okay yet every guy in the place feels like they are walking on shards of glass when making jokes. Why is it okay for a woman to make a penis joke to a man (because if the man complains hes a pussy or a gay?) yet if a man makes one to a woman he could be in some serious shit if she wanted to make a big deal. Imo women wake themselves out the be the victim way more often then men do. Possibly stemming from gender roles society places on people? (men sucks it up women are dainty and delicate) but i can't say for certain what I think of that.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Mescalean]
    #21861163 - 06/26/15 06:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Okay for your animalistic mind

I mean as in

you know you meet random guy on street

you talk to him yes

have laugh yes?

now do with women

congrats you can think of more things in life then spray sperm all over


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Beanhead]
    #21861178 - 06/26/15 06:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)



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Invisiblemindbodysoul
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21861182 - 06/26/15 06:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

who's frank zappa


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21861187 - 06/26/15 06:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
It's really wrong to paint all feminism with the same brush, there are many different schools. By definition feminism seeks to achieve gender equality, and agree that women need to be lifted up to reach a place in society that gives them equal freedom and social and economic capacity as men.

Different schools of feminism disagree on:
-whether gender differences between male and female should exist at all. Radical feminism says that all gender differences are artificial constructs of the patriarchy, but most feminists, including myself, think radical feminism is wacky and counterintuitively oppressive to women.
-just how much emancipation and lifting up women actually need
-whether sex workers and trans women should be catered to as equals or stigmatized and excluded from women's spaces
-whether pornography is always oppressive to women or if it can sometimes be empowering
-the degree to which feminists should work on solving forms of oppression that intersect with sexism, i.e. racism, classism, ageism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia

The attitude of mainstream feminism regarding these issues has changed dramatically over the decades and the feminism of today has very little to do with, say, the feminism of the 80's. Third-wave feminism is heavily critical of second-wave feminism, often considering it oppressive to both women and men.

There are more differences than similarities between the different schools of feminism, and most posts I see on the shroomery on the subject oversimplify and dramatize the whole subject to a ludicrously inaccurate degree, portraying feminism as a powerful and monolithic lobby that seeks to enslave men when in fact feminists spend even more time disagreeing with one another as to how equality should be pursued and achieved than they do supposedly stifling men's rights.

Like seriously, Shroomism, you seem a decent guy, so your hardcore antifeminism is kinda confusing to me... you shouldn't have any problem with feminism as a general movement if you generally care about the welfare of women. If you have problems with specific sub-movements of feminism or particular individual feminists, welcome to the club, there are some real assholes out there who do terrible stuff in the name of "feminism". But you'd do much better to critique their actions individually than making incoherent generalizations about feminism as a whole.




"you shouldn't have any problem with feminism as a general movement if you generally care about the welfare of women"

Maybe he also cares about the welfare of men!!  Yes, a man caring about his own sex because males are getting the shorter end of the stick due to feminism.

Don't get a woman mad at you today, she can accuse you of sexual harassment, sexual assault, stalking, and it's now a case of guilty until proven innocent for the man.

Even when the man proves all the allegations are false and his career and life has been ruined, the female that made the false claims suffers no legal or monetary implications, please tell us what is "equal" about this new reality?


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21861189 - 06/26/15 06:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)



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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21861228 - 06/26/15 06:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:







This is the real problem right here. These are real viewpoints in third wave feminism. I know that many of you support women's rights and equality, but neither of those things mean that you're a feminist. Third wave feminism, and I'm not just saying this, this is their real position, is not about equality. Most of you who self identify as feminist would be second or first wave feminists, and you would be rejected and hated by third wave feminists (who have built much of their ideology on bashing second and first wave feminists).

I also have a huge problem with people who spend their lives preaching to people who are already on their side, and then do nothing to change the real world around them. This is a major problem in third wave feminism (and academia in general). They spend all their time going from conference to conference railing against injustice to people who already support everything they're saying, and then they put absolutely no effort into changing anything in real life or real society.

Finally, there is this crazy idea that third wave feminism doesn't need men (or anyone else) to succeed. There is this real idea that if they just all get together and yell at each other loud enough for long enough that somehow the world will change. This is why they have terms like "allies" because they feel that they don't actually need men or anyone else to succeed. You can't succeed at anything by pulling together a bunch of people who already support your beliefs and telling them your beliefs. That's just crazy.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #21861240 - 06/26/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm fourth wave motherfucker :smirk: everybody has been a woman since 1993 you just haven't caught on yet.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21861256 - 06/26/15 06:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I was born then
Everything makes sense now
:awedance:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 4
    #21861260 - 06/26/15 06:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Like seriously, Shroomism, you seem a decent guy, so your hardcore antifeminism is kinda confusing to me... you shouldn't have any problem with feminism as a general movement if you generally care about the welfare of women. If you have problems with specific sub-movements of feminism or particular individual feminists, welcome to the club, there are some real assholes out there who do terrible stuff in the name of "feminism". But you'd do much better to critique their actions individually than making incoherent generalizations about feminism as a whole.




If it was just a small sub-section of feminism that did it, I would address that. But this attitude has become the mainstream of modern feminism. It isn't just a few select individuals. I find it extremely difficult to find modern feminists who aren't complete hypocrites and don't constantly espouse this mentality. If you have some examples of sensible modern 'feminists' who champion true equality among the sexes..  I would really love to see them. Because most of the egalitarian people who push for REAL equality, are labelled as MRAs. Case in point: Karen Straughan, Dianna Davison, Dr Helen Smith, etc. Notice I mentioned all females, because men aren't taken seriously when talking about equality. Watch a few of their videos. The modern feminist agenda is to push for special treatment by constantly regurgitating made up or doctored 'facts', ignore any facts that contradict their myths and denounce everything as part of the "patriarchy". Then if you disagree or present a different argument, you are just labeled and written off as a misogynistic woman hater. Modern feminism - is the patriarchy in lipstick.

Modern feminists... make a huge stink about "gamergate".. publicly shame and make a well respected scientist who just achieved a monumental scientific achievement... break down into tears over a shirt he wore, that a chick made for him.. and campaign against men's rights..
Meanwhile all over Europe...  a huge ongoing Muslim gang rape ring is uncovered.. and feminists are completely silent on the issue. Why is that? They are constantly going on and on and on about "rape culture epidemic"... going on and on and on about the "1 in 4 women are raped" MYTH..  but when a REAL instance of systematic rape is exposed, they are completely silent. Because it doesn't fit their narrative of the white male oppressor that is the Patriarchy, they cant criticize minorities over fears of offending ‘multicultural’ sensitivities. Instead, lets focus all our energy on attacking video games as supporting the patriarchy. Hypocrisy... Hypocrisy everywhere.


--------------------


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21861286 - 06/26/15 07:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i'll post a video featuring Karen Straughan in an interview (Young turk's so lol's may be had)



she touches on some good points, so far, and i'll continue watching this video now.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21861299 - 06/26/15 07:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't mind feminism...I just wish it wasn't so radical. theres certainly a better way to handle it.

females certainly need more rights and should be treated with more dignity and respect.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Beanhead]
    #21861312 - 06/26/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:




Fuck that shit


--------------------


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #21861349 - 06/26/15 07:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
This is the real problem right here. These are real viewpoints in third wave feminism. I know that many of you support women's rights and equality, but neither of those things mean that you're a feminist. Third wave feminism, and I'm not just saying this, this is their real position, is not about equality. Most of you who self identify as feminist would be second or first wave feminists, and you would be rejected and hated by third wave feminists (who have built much of their ideology on bashing second and first wave feminists).

I also have a huge problem with people who spend their lives preaching to people who are already on their side, and then do nothing to change the real world around them. This is a major problem in third wave feminism (and academia in general). They spend all their time going from conference to conference railing against injustice to people who already support everything they're saying, and then they put absolutely no effort into changing anything in real life or real society.

Finally, there is this crazy idea that third wave feminism doesn't need men (or anyone else) to succeed. There is this real idea that if they just all get together and yell at each other loud enough for long enough that somehow the world will change. This is why they have terms like "allies" because they feel that they don't actually need men or anyone else to succeed. You can't succeed at anything by pulling together a bunch of people who already support your beliefs and telling them your beliefs. That's just crazy.




This.

I would consider my beliefs to align with that of first and second wave feminism. After third wave... that shit started all going out the window. They stopped championing for equality and started pushing for inequality and insanity. Modern feminism took it 3 steps further.. the shit has just gotten completely out of control.


--------------------


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21861352 - 06/26/15 07:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
i'll post a video featuring Karen Straughan in an interview (Young turk's so lol's may be had)



she touches on some good points, so far, and i'll continue watching this video now.




:thumbup:

She always has good points. I really suggest checking out some of her own videos.
Or if you have time...  listen to some of the Honey Badger Radio podcasts. They are on fucking point.


--------------------


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21861382 - 06/26/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Here's a few











--------------------


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21861406 - 06/26/15 07:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
I don't mind feminism...I just wish it wasn't so radical. theres certainly a better way to handle it.

females certainly need more rights and should be treated with more dignity and respect.




So you prefer a feminist like this? 



She seems pretty moderate and reasonable, but probably could be criticized in some cases, as we're all human.  The point is reasonable feminism does exist, but people just don't pay any attention to that with the same intensity because it is less interesting to the base consumer.  That doesn't mean it is unimportant or irrelevant.


Edited by moonrockmushy (06/26/15 07:50 PM)


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21861423 - 06/26/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
I don't mind feminism...I just wish it wasn't so radical. theres certainly a better way to handle it.

females certainly need more rights and should be treated with more dignity and respect.




So you prefer a feminist like this? 



She seems pretty moderate and reasonable, but probably could be criticized in some cases, as we're all human.  The point is reasonable feminism does exist, but people just don't pay any attention to that with the same intensity because it is less interesting to the base consumer.  That doesn't mean it is unimportant or irrelevant.





:thumbup:


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21861441 - 06/26/15 07:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i don't think being subject to the draft gives any predilection towards worthiness of anyone, however. she uses the argument that because there were women that didn't want to be subject to the draft and that they were exempting themselves from woman's suffrage because so, that they exempt themselves from really wanting equality. NO ONE, and we all know this by now, right? no one should be subject to indentured servitude, which is exactly what the draft exemplified.

so how is that a reasonable argument?

but i agreed on all her other points. especially in paying child support and in whom get's custody and guardianship of the children...not because of any of the "breadwinning/it's-the-way-it-is" rationale, but because it's solely for the fact of it being for gain and not for fairness, that these issue's arise.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #21861477 - 06/26/15 08:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Whether you see male privilege or female privilege as preferable seems so dependent on your personal point of view and your own preferences.

And the bickering will go on... forever


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Beanhead]
    #21861519 - 06/26/15 08:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Here is another one from the same lady I think is pretty good



It's only 4m long, and I think it at least proves that feminists do address most if not all of the issues shroomism claims are emblematic of "modern feminism".

I think it would be an insult to call this lady a relic.  She seems to be making every effort to be timely as well as thoughtful and true to her feminist roots.

I also think it is important to make a distinction from feminists that are plain crazy and not actually feminists with artists, performers, and others who may express unpopular ideas under the umbrella of feminism.  To me at least that is an important avenue for all modern people.  That hideous yet enthralling spot where radical feminism meets punk rock.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bill_Oreilly] * 1
    #21861596 - 06/26/15 08:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
females certainly need more rights and should be treated with more dignity and respect.





what do you mean more rights, more rights than whom?




just what we needed, a bunch of noisy cunt


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21861621 - 06/26/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
females certainly need more rights and should be treated with more dignity and respect.





what do you mean more rights, more rights than whom?




just what we needed, a bunch of noisy cunt




Well maybe not more rights..but more faith in them. We need more woman cops. More woman politicians. A woman president maybe...things like that.

I cant think of any rights off the top of my head hut im sure theres some.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineMescalean
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bill_Oreilly] * 1
    #21861693 - 06/26/15 09:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
females certainly need more rights and should be treated with more dignity and respect.





what do you mean more rights, more rights than whom?




just what we needed, a bunch of noisy cunt




Well maybe not more rights..but more faith in them. We need more woman cops. More woman politicians. A woman president maybe...things like that.

I cant think of any rights off the top of my head hut im sure theres some.




we don't "need" any position to be filled based on gender....


--------------------
FREE BURKE


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21861698 - 06/26/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I think it's pretty clear what you mean.  Everybody deserves more rights.  There's really no point in arguing that with someone with no grasp of the concept of basic human equality.  It's such a simple concept yet it is at the root of many of the struggles we still face as a people.

If you hate crazy feminists, then stick up for the ones that are genuine and intelligent.



It has not only an impact on women, but on the idea that everyone has a voice and that voice deserves to be heard, which is why it is particularly offensive to me to try and say feminism doesn't deserve to be heard.


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InvisibleMikeBearPig
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Mescalean]
    #21861703 - 06/26/15 09:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Exactly.. We don't need ANY position filled based on gender.

Do what you are good at and get paid well for doing it.

Do a shitty job and get your ass fired or get unequal pay.


DO NOT apply for jobs if you lack the skills to handle and be your best.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21861713 - 06/26/15 09:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
I think it's pretty clear what you mean.  Everybody deserves more rights.  There's really no point in arguing that with someone with no grasp of the concept of basic human equality.  It's such a simple concept yet it is at the root of many of the struggles we still face as a people.

If you hate crazy feminists, then stick up for the ones that are genuine and intelligent.



It has not only an impact on women, but on the idea that everyone has a voice and that voice deserves to be heard, which is why it is particularly offensive to me to try and say feminism doesn't deserve to be heard.





:rockon:

You know whats up.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21861742 - 06/26/15 09:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

everyone know's that they are fighting for the view's of their particular coalition's for the advancement of their ideal's over other coalition's.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21861775 - 06/26/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

ok


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Invisiblemindbodysoul
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21861778 - 06/26/15 09:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)



--------------------


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21861869 - 06/26/15 10:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
ok



:highfive: nice retort.


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: mindbodysoul]
    #21861908 - 06/26/15 10:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mindbodysoul said:





Is it wrong that I want to punch her in the face? Cause I totally do, I mean Id probably just get some chick I know to do it but still.


Edited by Bodhi of Ankou (06/26/15 10:36 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21861935 - 06/26/15 10:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Well maybe not more rights..but more faith in them. We need more woman cops. More woman politicians. A woman president maybe...things like that.

I cant think of any rights off the top of my head hut im sure theres some.





what's stopping women from becoming cops, there are laws that force the hiring
or women so what exactly is standing in their way. what is stopping women from
running for political office, there's no restriction based on sex, I know you
may find it shocking but there are even women that serve as astronauts and in
the military


what privileged do men have that women do not




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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21861943 - 06/26/15 10:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:

mindbodysoul said:





Is it wrong that I want to punch her in the face?






no, because equality and shit


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21862018 - 06/26/15 10:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Well maybe not more rights..but more faith in them. We need more woman cops. More woman politicians. A woman president maybe...things like that.

I cant think of any rights off the top of my head hut im sure theres some.





what's stopping women from becoming cops, there are laws that force the hiring
or women so what exactly is standing in their way. what is stopping women from
running for political office, there's no restriction based on sex, I know you
may find it shocking but there are even women that serve as astronauts and in
the military


what privileged do men have that women do not







:lol: is that a real magazine?  That looks great.  I never realized that my dick pics were actually feminist activism.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21862033 - 06/26/15 10:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

there's probably a lot of things you dont know about feminists

"A woman enjoys intercourse with her man — as she fantasizes being raped by three men simultaneously," -Bernie Sanders


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21862052 - 06/26/15 11:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm sure there is.  That doesn't change the core values of feminism in my mind.  Women are free to fantasize about whatever they want and not be judged for it any more than a man who sleeps with a woman and fantasizes about raping three women simultaneously.  Controlling other people's fantasies is a crazy thing for any movement to get behind, feminism included.  People can have a fantasy and understand that is not reality.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21862063 - 06/26/15 11:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
I'm sure there is.  That doesn't change the core values of feminism in my mind.  Women are free to fantasize about whatever they want and not be judged for it any more than a man who sleeps with a woman and fantasizes about raping three women simultaneously.  Controlling other people's fantasies is a crazy thing for any movement to get behind, feminism included.  People can have a fantasy and understand that is not reality.





do you see the irony of this

probably not


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21862081 - 06/26/15 11:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

the irony of you thinking your fantasy's about feminism are real and not imagined, even though you think that they are? that irony?


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21862096 - 06/26/15 11:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't really see the irony, but I've never been that good at understanding irony.  You are saying the implied meaning of something I said is contrary to the literal definition?


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21862151 - 06/26/15 11:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
the irony of you thinking your fantasy's about feminism are real and not imagined, even though you think that they are? that irony?





my name isnt bernie sanders


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21862326 - 06/27/15 12:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
i'll post a video featuring Karen Straughan in an interview (Young turk's so lol's may be had)



she touches on some good points, so far, and i'll continue watching this video now.




:thumbup:

She always has good points. I really suggest checking out some of her own videos.
Or if you have time...  listen to some of the Honey Badger Radio podcasts. They are on fucking point.



Karen is saying (and alot are following heedlessly) that the beginnings of the woman's suffrage movement started in England, but alot of women wanted to deny themselves the right to vote because then they'd be subject to the draft; and that that is a reason to promote that they weren't thinking of equality, in that sense. but it's not because like some people are trying to reign in, that they were not willing to go to war because it wasn't fair for them, unlike the men, because they were women (or weak or whatever reason have you, that one'll hear), it was because of the fact that the draft was already unfair and unreasonable and that because NO ONE wants to go to war to begin with. it's not only a red herring, Karen's argument that is, because it's specious to assume they were unequal in rights to begin with because they need not go to war like the men; it's also a facetious red herring, because in the US woman's suffrage started well before the draft was abolished constitutionally, so hence, not only was the movement irrelevant to the instance of the draft unfairly requisitioning men over women, it was also irrelevant to her overall point: the draft was only abolished because people realized it was a stain to equal rights and civil rights on the face of it, so because it was already not equal, it can't have anything to do with women given preferential treatment to men, because men were already being unfairly treated without women's involvement to begin with. it has nothing to do with women wanting to avoid men's "obligations": or responsibilities; it has to do with the fact that no one in their right mind WANTS to go to war PERIOD. women were essentially given their freedom from the draft for specious reasons, already...but nonetheless they were exempting themselves in the case that Karen brought up, not to be pretentious or stifle men, but because they were more sensible to think to avoid anything that'd make them go to war. but it's a completely different scenario anyways to women's suffrage in America, because as you can plainly see the draft was still instated among men, and EXCLUDED women on principal, AFTER woman's suffrage had begun to take shape, in America.

therefore it is completely inexcusable a red herring. and it's not an excuse on the women's part, anyway, in Karen's example, but just common sense. the rest of her points, i agree with however.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21862822 - 06/27/15 06:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
I think it's pretty clear what you mean.  Everybody deserves more rights.  There's really no point in arguing that with someone with no grasp of the concept of basic human equality.  It's such a simple concept yet it is at the root of many of the struggles we still face as a people.

If you hate crazy feminists, then stick up for the ones that are genuine and intelligent.



It has not only an impact on women, but on the idea that everyone has a voice and that voice deserves to be heard, which is why it is particularly offensive to me to try and say feminism doesn't deserve to be heard.



They have a right to speak and I have the right to mock, ridicule and ignore them.  Much like I feel about you although in your case I feel it is more a duty than a right..


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21862989 - 06/27/15 07:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

If you insist but feminism is a positive movement for positive people at it's core, and to fan the flames of hatred is only going to result in more outrageous feminists on youtubes and tumblr alike.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21862996 - 06/27/15 07:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

zappa, do you have more to say than that?


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #21863034 - 06/27/15 08:09 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yes.  There is no one feminist doctrine.  The people who call themselves feminists do not agree on a lot of shit.  There are the absolute man haters and there are those who love men.  There are those who want to be men and those who embrace what they perceive to be the feminine nature.  The word has almost no meaning.  There is no feminist movement.  What is currently referenced as the feminist movement is a bunch of screeching whiny harpies demanding a bunch of bullshit.  Women are half the population.  They hold almost half the jobs and are in charge of a great deal of the economy just through spending.  Men are mocked as morons regularly in advertising and entertainment.  Women?  Not so much.  Just like the Negro they need to stop whining


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21863067 - 06/27/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Something is wrong with you if you're capable of looking at feminists like that, but apparently Negro is a race with hard rules that seperate them from other people.

Want to take another stab at defining that one?  Add to the list?


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863084 - 06/27/15 08:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Haven't you gotten your ass handed to you enough on that race thing?

If you think that there is a consensus on what is feminism then you are either blind, ignorant, completely uninformed or so arrogant that you think you, a man, can tell women what it means.  Ignorance or chauvinism.  Pick one.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863093 - 06/27/15 08:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

agreed, on the aspect of being misrepresented, as WOMEN; and men as well, intrinsically within the "feminist" movement. i'd like for that "movement" to go towards what feminism should be about, and that is political science, and sure philosophy, but not about silly shit; you can make any thing a philosophical quandary, but the thing is, is it realistic or just hypothetical? these days, alot of the philosophy on feminism and woman's "rights" are grossly mismanaged and deformed and not realistic and especially so, even relevant. twisting of narrative to fit some deranged agenda.

surely so.
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
apparently Negro is a race with hard rules that seperate them from other people.

Want to take another stab at defining that one?  Add to the list?



black people aren't setting themselves apart well in terms of the sociological and philosophical definition they provide for, some take their proclamation's too far.

not all, in fact not even the majority at this point, in my opinion, but to be exacting, i'd say more than 60%, approximately, do not have the educated opinion of those whom do understand that 1: slavery doesn't directly (and i mean directly) effect their live's anymore and 2: that they're opinion's matter more in the court of public opinion than in the fighting against other coalition's and group's of people, for their own divide of black vs "The man" mentality.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21863098 - 06/27/15 08:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Again, I decide what consensus on a word is by consulting the dictionary, I guess that makes me a radical.

Yeah :rolleyes: I had my ass handed to be.  That's exactly what happened.  Keep handing me my ass so people can know how you really think.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863112 - 06/27/15 08:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i still stand by the text book definition of Feminism, and think everyone  should.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863114 - 06/27/15 08:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Have you ever filled out a census form?  When they asked what race you were did you check a box?


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21863116 - 06/27/15 08:31 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
i still stand by the text book definition of Feminism, and think everyone  should.



Which textbook?


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863126 - 06/27/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Again, I decide what consensus on a word is by consulting the dictionary, I guess that makes me a radical.




Actually if you use the dictionary for your understanding of feminism that would put you quite firmly in the utterly ignorant category.  Them bitches fight each other over what it is like cats and...............well cats.  Nasty ass fights.  Bitches be cray cray.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21863133 - 06/27/15 08:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

the dictionary. feminism is about equal rights for both men and women, and any man or women who doesn't understand that or take the word out of context is a moron.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21863141 - 06/27/15 08:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Have you ever filled out a census form?  When they asked what race you were did you check a box?




Do you have any idea why?  Presumably that is because these categories are a valid way at predicting behavior and point towards stunning statistical correlations? (sorry, I should just start calling them facts, that will make it easier for you to understand right?)

The reason government agencies collect data on race is to further the cause of civil rights, precisely because people have been oppressed based on skin color

Unless you're going to get into conspiracy theories where that alone is actually racist, or criticize the effectiveness of this strategy in furthering the human rights agenda, which is your right to do, this is just more of the incredible assumptions made by someone incapable of admitting to themselves that something they've been lead to believe their whole life is essentially a lie designed to hurt and oppress other human beings.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21863145 - 06/27/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Again, I decide what consensus on a word is by consulting the dictionary, I guess that makes me a radical.




Actually if you use the dictionary for your understanding of feminism that would put you quite firmly in the utterly ignorant category.  Them bitches fight each other over what it is like cats and...............well cats.  Nasty ass fights.  Bitches be cray cray.


the dictionary isn't used to understanding. it's used for applying the definition of the word. sure you can stand by your own definition, but that doesn't mean you can just exclude the ACTUAL definition.
the word has purpose. even if it was made just sometime ago. otherwise, you're just "a nice guy"... meaning an asshole. see what i did there, i changed the fucking definition.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21863169 - 06/27/15 08:41 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't define feminism.  I try to avoid using the word entirely because I know that there is zero consensus on what it means.  I have actually read a lot of these broads talking and arguing and crying and screaming about what it is.  There is no better catfight.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21863201 - 06/27/15 08:50 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i would agree on that. but i say feminism mean equality across the board. i like seeing arguments to back up the instance that "women never had it so tuff as men harumph!"

fuck that shit. go fuck it up it's ass.

everything should be equal, in terms of TODAY'S culture. girl punches you, you should at least slap that bitch on the ass as a warning, then if things get difficult...  :frylock:

but yeah. feminism means nothing blah blah blah same old sentiment. yadayadayada


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #21863229 - 06/27/15 08:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I think ideologies are better defined by their practitioners than old books.  Definitions change.  Your dictionary definition is old, modern meanings are not that cut and dry.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: DieCommie]
    #21863238 - 06/27/15 09:00 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i think ideologies are better left to intelligent people than idolaters; so i don't count bitches who think everything man is evil or out to get them. i'll stand by my own definition, though, thank you...you know, the proper definition, and not what some dumb cunts in North America made it out to be. i even said... here let me quote so neanderthal's can grasp the concept.

and i'm paraphrasing here

Quote:

intrinsically within the "feminist" movement, i'd like for that "movement" to go towards what feminism should be about, and that is political science, and sure philosophy, but not about silly shit; you can make any thing a philosophical quandary, but the thing is, is it realistic or just hypothetical? these days, alot of the philosophy on feminism and woman's "rights" are grossly mismanaged and deformed and not realistic and especially so, even relevant. twisting of narrative to fit some deranged agenda.




if you can't understand my position on the subject without resorting ad nauseum rhetoric, than... just go jump off a brige and save the world from your inept bullshit.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21863246 - 06/27/15 09:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Your posts wreaks of closed minded arrogance. 

Quote:

i'll stand by my own definition, though, thank you...you know, the proper definition




There is no such thing as a "proper" definition.  All definitions are made up.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: DieCommie]
    #21863254 - 06/27/15 09:02 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i'd agree with that standpoint that all definition's are made up. that's why i'll stand on my own...did you...did you miss that part?

and your post seems rather arrogant yourself...we're twins! go fuck off now.

PS: Reeks* not wreaks.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21863266 - 06/27/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I don't define feminism.  I try to avoid using the word entirely because I know that there is zero consensus on what it means.  I have actually read a lot of these broads talking and arguing and crying and screaming about what it is.  There is no better catfight.




Sure, the struggle for human equality is a conspiracy to keep people like you down, and who could even understand such a complex idea.  Racism however is a proud and sensible part of our culture that needs to be preserved.  :rolleyes:

It's not a fucking joke or something I argue out of competitiveness, you're actually helping hatred in America continue to thrive, and you're either too stupid or too arrogant to ever move on. 

I take great consolation on knowing how out of touch you and your fellow supposed "non-racists who believe in race" are when it comes to the pathetic ramblings you claim to be the important issues facing America.


Edited by moonrockmushy (06/27/15 09:08 AM)


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863270 - 06/27/15 09:07 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

don't listen to any fartbag's, moonrock.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21863284 - 06/27/15 09:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

They can't even agree amongst themselves.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21863295 - 06/27/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

no shit, that's why i'm commenting, you fuck. i'm trying to understand this fucking bullshit, and your damn exoneration's don't help matters. i'm trying to understand the concept not pander to your fucking beliefs.

fuck zappa, you are a fucking obfuscating dickhole aren't you?

fuck most of the people here are dickholes, i gotta get outta here...i gotta get outta here...i gotta...i gotta get outta here!

+1 for the reference....


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21863310 - 06/27/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
I hate to bring up the fact that I'm trans, since everybody else does it for me, but I do feel that my having had significant experience living on both sides of the gender binary gives me some insight into this conversation.

Honestly, I think that well-intentioned but self-conscious men are misinterpreting the complaints feminists make about male-dominated spaces and casual harassment. For example, a lot of guys seem to be unclear on the difference between "catcalling" and "street harassment". Now, IMO, catcalling is completely different from street harassment. Catcalling is not really a problem at all. I actually used to catcall women when I was hormonally male, and when I heard women complaining about "street harassment" I was intensely concerned that I had been engaging in practices that could be considered harassment.

Well let me tell you that catcalling is NOT street harassment. Street harassment is bullying, aggressive, and intrusive. For example, the other day I was at the gas station, and a pair of young men started yelling at me. They said "Hey bitch, put on a fucking bra!" and when I ignored them, repeated this several times. Then as I was getting back into my car they switched it up, calling me a "long-ass bird", laughing and jeering at me.

See, now that, was street harassment. I'd never really witnessed that type of behavior when I was living and presenting myself as male, because people who engage in this type of behavior are cowards. They know that what they are doing is wrong but don't care that it is wrong as long as they don't have reason to expect any tangible consequences, such as from the strength and aggression of another male. They pick almost exclusively on young women who are alone. For some of us, it is a daily occurrence. It makes us feel legitimately unsafe in public and it has a macroscopic chilling effect on women's public participation. Again, when I was living and presenting as male, I'd never experienced this type of treatment at all. It seems to be a phenomenon that uniquely targets women while sparing men of even having to see it or think about it.

When feminists complain of street harassment, this is what they are talking about, but since most men don't witness it very often if at all, they assume women are being oversensitive about more innocent overtures such as whistling or benign one-off comments from a distance. But "harassment" has a clear cut definition and it refers to intrusive, unwanted, and repeated behaviors that have the effect of intimidating their target. We need you, as men who don't cotton to this kind of shit, to understand that we are not talking about you. The fact that you so resent your perceived association with this type of behavior shows that you know how wrong it is.  We don't want you to feel bad about yourselves as guys, there's no doubt most guys are okay. We just want you to know that this stuff DOES HAPPEN and to pay close attention to your fellow males who might not be so scrupulous and to provide for consequences when they do or say fucked up shit.




while what you said does happen

this isn't the case with modern feminism which is mostly lesbians who have a deep seated hatred for men in every way imaginable and want them to be lower than monkeys

they will jump at the chance to embarrass or harass a male at any chance they get

you're the one confusing the two


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863311 - 06/27/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I don't define feminism.  I try to avoid using the word entirely because I know that there is zero consensus on what it means.  I have actually read a lot of these broads talking and arguing and crying and screaming about what it is.  There is no better catfight.




Sure, the struggle for human equality is a conspiracy to keep people like you down, and who could even understand such a complex idea.  Racism however is a proud and sensible part of our culture that needs to be preserved.  :rolleyes:

It's not a fucking joke or something I argue out of competitiveness, you're actually helping hatred in America continue to thrive, and you're either too stupid or too arrogant to ever move on. 

I take great consolation on knowing how out of touch you and your fellow supposed "non-racists who believe in race" are when it comes to the pathetic ramblings you claim to be the important issues facing America.




I ask again.  Did you fill out a census form and when they asked what race did you check a box?  What about Affirmative Action?  Since there are no races we can get rid of that right?  What about the Asians suing Harvard.  Harvard thinks there are races.  If there are no races there cannot be racism.  Is there racism?

There are races and they differ physically and pretty much everybody acknowledges this except for a few peckerheads.  Acknowledging that race exists in no way perpetuates hatred

There will never be human equality.  Some people are awesome and some people are retards.  The only equality that can is exist is under law.  I have no problem with that.  The law should be equally applied in a blind manner. I have a problem when the coercive force of the government is used to compel private citizens acting in their own private businesses and homes to accommodate other people that they think are freaks, or idiots or assholes.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21863320 - 06/27/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

No I don't actually.  I don't provide racial data because I identify as post-racial, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that so I'll just leave it there.

also

Why does the Census Bureau collect information on race?  back to top
Information on race is required for many Federal programs and is critical in making policy decisions, particularly for civil rights. States use these data to meet legislative redistricting principles. Race data also are used to promote equal employment opportunities and to assess racial disparities in health and environmental risks.

https://www.census.gov/population/race/about/faq.html

What does the Census Bureau mean by race?  back to top
The Census Bureau collects race data in accordance with guidelines provided by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget, and these data are based on self-identification. The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country, and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically or genetically. People may choose to report more than one race to indicate their racial mixture, such as “American Indian” and “White.” People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race. In addition, it is recognized that the categories of the race item include both racial and national origin or socio-cultural groups. You may choose more than one race category.


Edited by moonrockmushy (06/27/15 09:25 AM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21863324 - 06/27/15 09:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

the commode.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #21863331 - 06/27/15 09:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Well maybe not more rights..but more faith in them. We need more woman cops. More woman politicians. A woman president maybe...things like that.

I cant think of any rights off the top of my head hut im sure theres some.





what's stopping women from becoming cops, there are laws that force the hiring
or women so what exactly is standing in their way. what is stopping women from
running for political office, there's no restriction based on sex, I know you
may find it shocking but there are even women that serve as astronauts and in
the military


what privileged do men have that women do not






I take it you never heard of the term "Its a mans world"


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Offlinecube talk
Stranger

Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 1,223
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863346 - 06/27/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
And what leads to the idea that misogyny no longer exists, or never existed in the first place?




where the fuk did you even get that? Where did he say that? You're just changing the subject and flipping words around while avoiding the common sense he posted about what happens at his company

and yes I've seen this before about what he said, some chick gets off easy JUST BECAUSE SHE'S A GIRL...

is
that
not
sexist?

what do I need to find the masculinist movement now to justify this lack of equality?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863362 - 06/27/15 09:31 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
No I don't actually.  I don't provide racial data because I identify as post-racial, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that so I'll just leave it there.

also

Why does the Census Bureau collect information on race?  back to top
Information on race is required for many Federal programs and is critical in making policy decisions, particularly for civil rights. States use these data to meet legislative redistricting principles. Race data also are used to promote equal employment opportunities and to assess racial disparities in health and environmental risks.

https://www.census.gov/population/race/about/faq.html

What does the Census Bureau mean by race?  back to top
The Census Bureau collects race data in accordance with guidelines provided by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget, and these data are based on self-identification. The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country, and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically or genetically. People may choose to report more than one race to indicate their racial mixture, such as “American Indian” and “White.” People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race. In addition, it is recognized that the categories of the race item include both racial and national origin or socio-cultural groups. You may choose more than one race category.



Of course they don't define it.  That isn't their purview.  The respondents define it and almost all of them check a box.  I myself check 2


--------------------


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21863408 - 06/27/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Well maybe not more rights..but more faith in them. We need more woman cops. More woman politicians. A woman president maybe...things like that.

I cant think of any rights off the top of my head hut im sure theres some.





what's stopping women from becoming cops, there are laws that force the hiring
or women so what exactly is standing in their way. what is stopping women from
running for political office, there's no restriction based on sex, I know you
may find it shocking but there are even women that serve as astronauts and in
the military

what privileged do men have that women do not





I take it you never heard of the term "Its a mans world"




I've heard many terms such as "all men are rapists", are you a rapist bill?
someone coining a term doesnt make the term accurate or truthful


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21863416 - 06/27/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
No I don't actually.  I don't provide racial data because I identify as post-racial, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that so I'll just leave it there.

also

Why does the Census Bureau collect information on race?  back to top
Information on race is required for many Federal programs and is critical in making policy decisions, particularly for civil rights. States use these data to meet legislative redistricting principles. Race data also are used to promote equal employment opportunities and to assess racial disparities in health and environmental risks.

https://www.census.gov/population/race/about/faq.html

What does the Census Bureau mean by race?  back to top
The Census Bureau collects race data in accordance with guidelines provided by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget, and these data are based on self-identification. The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country, and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically or genetically. People may choose to report more than one race to indicate their racial mixture, such as “American Indian” and “White.” People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race. In addition, it is recognized that the categories of the race item include both racial and national origin or socio-cultural groups. You may choose more than one race category.



Of course they don't define it.  That isn't their purview.  The respondents define it and almost all of them check a box.  I myself check 2





check them all because genetics say it fits


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Offlinecube talk
Stranger

Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 1,223
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863418 - 06/27/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
:rolleyes: Honestly I have no interest in reading all your links.  I wish you could actually address what I said without resorting to: "Look at how many links I have compiled?!?!?  Can u do this?!?!"

Explain to me how someone who advocates for equality between men and women is not a feminist.  You are either for that, or you're not a feminist and believe that the differences between the gender entails some level of designed inequality.  It does not ultimately matter that fem is in the title any more than it matters that man is in the title of mankind.  It's a fucking word and it means what it says in the dictionary, that is how I define things and if you are going to disagree with me there I don't know how we can even have a conversation.




you're pathetic

he absolutely destroyed everything

your response = "bury my head under the ground like an ostrich"

terrible poster


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: cube talk]
    #21863431 - 06/27/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

nah just one that doesn't espouse your exact views. fuck off.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: cube talk]
    #21863432 - 06/27/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

get you tongue out of shroomisms butt crack and learn to think for yourself.  Thanks for the thoughtful critique.  :sploosh:


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21863444 - 06/27/15 09:48 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

I've heard many terms such as "all men are rapists", are you a rapist bill?
someone coining a term doesnt make the term accurate or truthful



yes, someone who claims to endear to the concept of feminism (which they don't peddle or adhere to but just aggregate view's upon)  = someone who believe's the "man rape" pandering methodology.

do you people...you..."people"... ever shit out anything but rhetorical cockamamie trolly bullshit? no? ok then. fuck off.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21863483 - 06/27/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Look. at. all. these. links:

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/republicans-treat-voters-like-absolute-idiots-conservatives-eat-right/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/floyd-elliot/study-finds-conservatives_b_1235382.html
http://reverbpress.com/politics/proof-republicans-are-stupid/


Look at how crazy MRAs are:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2012/08/04/an-mra-explains-christianity/
https://debunkingmras.wordpress.com/2014/03/12/debunking-the-mens-rights-movement-x/
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/warren-farrell-mens-rights-movement-feminism-misogyny-trolls

Akira get me Merriam or Webster on the line, they have got "conservative" "republican" and "MRA" all wrong.  It seems to me like they all say they are political movements that espouse a specific set of beliefs, but actually they are all idiots.  I don't think we really need to get to complex here, maybe we could also make it an adjetive tho like "That shirt looks pretty MRA".


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InvisibleMikeBearPig
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: cube talk]
    #21863485 - 06/27/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cube talk said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
:rolleyes: Honestly I have no interest in reading all your links.  I wish you could actually address what I said without resorting to: "Look at how many links I have compiled?!?!?  Can u do this?!?!"

Explain to me how someone who advocates for equality between men and women is not a feminist.  You are either for that, or you're not a feminist and believe that the differences between the gender entails some level of designed inequality.  It does not ultimately matter that fem is in the title any more than it matters that man is in the title of mankind.  It's a fucking word and it means what it says in the dictionary, that is how I define things and if you are going to disagree with me there I don't know how we can even have a conversation.




you're pathetic

he absolutely destroyed everything

your response = "bury my head under the ground like an ostrich"

terrible poster





Yea.. Pretty much.

Can't even read my own thread because of these 2 idiots


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21863489 - 06/27/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Well maybe not more rights..but more faith in them. We need more woman cops. More woman politicians. A woman president maybe...things like that.

I cant think of any rights off the top of my head hut im sure theres some.





what's stopping women from becoming cops, there are laws that force the hiring
or women so what exactly is standing in their way. what is stopping women from
running for political office, there's no restriction based on sex, I know you
may find it shocking but there are even women that serve as astronauts and in
the military

what privileged do men have that women do not





I take it you never heard of the term "Its a mans world"




I've heard many terms such as "all men are rapists", are you a rapist bill?
someone coining a term doesnt make the term accurate or truthful





true


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21863492 - 06/27/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

stfu, you have no thread, it's a troll thread.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21863493 - 06/27/15 09:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:


true



nice argument. so do you easily turn the other cheek to get wreaked by big penises or is it just for Prisoner's giant shlong?


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InvisibleMikeBearPig
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21863495 - 06/27/15 09:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
stfu, you have no thread, it's a troll thread.




And you were the 2nd.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21863497 - 06/27/15 09:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

and your thread is a fucking troll thread. you don't agree with me or moonrock, even though i've said consistently i don't espouse feminist views, but you're too narrow minded to read anything.

go suck more cock.


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Offlinecube talk
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Posts: 1,223
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863512 - 06/27/15 10:02 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
:rolleyes: Honestly I have no interest in reading all your links.  I wish you could actually address what I said without resorting to: "Look at how many links I have compiled?!?!?  Can u do this?!?!"

Explain to me how someone who advocates for equality between men and women is not a feminist.  You are either for that, or you're not a feminist and believe that the differences between the gender entails some level of designed inequality.  It does not ultimately matter that fem is in the title any more than it matters that man is in the title of mankind.  It's a fucking word and it means what it says in the dictionary, that is how I define things and if you are going to disagree with me there I don't know how we can even have a conversation.




you're pathetic

he absolutely destroyed everything

your response = "bury my head under the ground like an ostrich"

terrible poster
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
get you tongue out of shroomisms butt crack and learn to think for yourself.  Thanks for the thoughtful critique.  :sploosh:




see shroomism, this is why you don't argue with feminists

they dont care about facts
they dont give a flying fuk about men
they have an agenda

they will ignore everything that is against that agenda, to the hysterical point of using some definition in the dictionary to shield what it really means and what it's really doing in the real world

that's what modern feminism is and that's why you're wasting your time arguing with them because they just. dont. care.


excellent posts though, I see you've actually done your research from everything as petty to that stupid wage gap myth to the laughable way the courts treat these types of situation

just remember, some people can't be reasoned with

some people just wanna watch the world burn


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Offlinecube talk
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21863527 - 06/27/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
nah just one that doesn't espouse your exact views. fuck off.




lol "my exact views"

aka don't get in a debate if you're not prepared for the possible consequences

aka getting your ass owned


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OfflineShortknight
Male


Registered: 02/25/13
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Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21863560 - 06/27/15 10:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Like seriously, Shroomism, you seem a decent guy, so your hardcore antifeminism is kinda confusing to me... you shouldn't have any problem with feminism as a general movement if you generally care about the welfare of women. If you have problems with specific sub-movements of feminism or particular individual feminists, welcome to the club, there are some real assholes out there who do terrible stuff in the name of "feminism". But you'd do much better to critique their actions individually than making incoherent generalizations about feminism as a whole.




If it was just a small sub-section of feminism that did it, I would address that. But this attitude has become the mainstream of modern feminism. It isn't just a few select individuals. I find it extremely difficult to find modern feminists who aren't complete hypocrites and don't constantly espouse this mentality. If you have some examples of sensible modern 'feminists' who champion true equality among the sexes..  I would really love to see them. Because most of the egalitarian people who push for REAL equality, are labelled as MRAs. Case in point: Karen Straughan, Dianna Davison, Dr Helen Smith, etc. Notice I mentioned all females, because men aren't taken seriously when talking about equality. Watch a few of their videos. The modern feminist agenda is to push for special treatment by constantly regurgitating made up or doctored 'facts', ignore any facts that contradict their myths and denounce everything as part of the "patriarchy". Then if you disagree or present a different argument, you are just labeled and written off as a misogynistic woman hater. Modern feminism - is the patriarchy in lipstick.

Modern feminists... make a huge stink about "gamergate".. publicly shame and make a well respected scientist who just achieved a monumental scientific achievement... break down into tears over a shirt he wore, that a chick made for him.. and campaign against men's rights..
Meanwhile all over Europe...  a huge ongoing Muslim gang rape ring is uncovered.. and feminists are completely silent on the issue. Why is that? They are constantly going on and on and on about "rape culture epidemic"... going on and on and on about the "1 in 4 women are raped" MYTH..  but when a REAL instance of systematic rape is exposed, they are completely silent. Because it doesn't fit their narrative of the white male oppressor that is the Patriarchy, they cant criticize minorities over fears of offending ‘multicultural’ sensitivities. Instead, lets focus all our energy on attacking video games as supporting the patriarchy. Hypocrisy... Hypocrisy everywhere.





Shroom, thanks for capturing my thoughts so clearly in your own words! You did a wonderful job:yinyang: You see that the feminism movement just didn't stop collecting power and momentum. When it did hit its peak, where it could of stayed at and kept doing good, instead kept rising to new levels. Levels that have focused on hatred, fear and insecurites towards men and collecting more power. Versus seeking simple equal rights, love and compassion reeling towards global peace.:peace: It boils down that men and women are complexly  different emotionally and physically, so nothing will ever be completely balanced. Its much much more interesting this way I believe:heart:

Ain't no time for hate! :flowerchild:
Enjoy the debating:thumbup:

:sunny:Shorty:sunny:


--------------------
Did I say it too loud? Big heart? Or a little misleading!:musicnote:


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: cube talk]
    #21863564 - 06/27/15 10:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Care to refute my articles before you go off claiming victory.  Namely:

https://debunkingmras.wordpress.com/2014/03/12/debunking-the-mens-rights-movement-x/

One article.  Lets talk about it.

Quote:

1. SUICIDE: Men’s suicide rate is 4.6 times higher than that of women’s. [Dept. Health & Human Services — 26,710 males vs 5,700 females]

Not for lack of trying: women attempt it three times as often. [1] Researchers have found that gender differences in socialization is the strongest explanation for men’s relative success in suicide attempts. In the United States, for instance, it has been shown that unsuccessful suicide attempts are considered “feminine” while it is considered masculine to succeed. In other words, the fear of being labeled “feminine” or “weak” in a male supremacist culture encourages men to ensure their attempts are successfully completed. [2] The statistic given here also masks that many of these “suicides” were actually murder-suicides. In the United States, an estimated 1,000 to 1,500 people died in suicide attacks each year. [3] More than ninety percent of the offenders are men; nearly all the victims are female. [4]




Is this a claim you make?  Shall we move on to #2 or are you willing to admit you are not actually basing this on logic but have hopped on some anti-feminist bandwagon who may not all be men who are insecure and uncomfortable around independent women, but there is alot of truth to that statement, like perhaps there is to the statement that much of feminism is not effective and not true to the core values of feminism.

We don't go making threads about feminism in the pub, I don't really advocate for feminism that strongly most of the time, but when you come in and start spouting lies and slander based on internet gossip you can fuck the right off with that.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21863612 - 06/27/15 10:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:


true



nice argument. so do you easily turn the other cheek to get wreaked by big penises or is it just for Prisoner's giant shlong?





just because I agreed with him that not all sayings are true, doesn't mean I agree with him about the original argument.


And its ok...ill get "wreaked" by pris's giant shlong(how do you know its giant :lol:) and you can continue to get "wreaked" by zappa's shlong.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineMescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21863667 - 06/27/15 10:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:

mindbodysoul said:





Is it wrong that I want to punch her in the face? Cause I totally do, I mean Id probably just get some chick I know to do it but still.




Coming from the guy who was too good to piss on peoples shit. What happened to the whole violence against women bruh? You probably raped her (in your mind) after you threw that haymaker to that pour fragile bone structure (in your mind) since we men can rape without even pulling our dicks out I think you are guilty of both rape and assault buddy. Woman beater.


--------------------
FREE BURKE


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21863683 - 06/27/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

https://debunkingmras.wordpress.com/2014/03/12/debunking-the-mens-rights-movement-x/

Quote:

1. SUICIDE: Men’s suicide rate is 4.6 times higher than that of women’s. [Dept. Health & Human Services — 26,710 males vs 5,700 females]

Not for lack of trying: women attempt it three times as often.




No wonder they get paid less per hour.  They are complete fuckups.


--------------------


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OfflineMescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21863697 - 06/27/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
https://debunkingmras.wordpress.com/2014/03/12/debunking-the-mens-rights-movement-x/

Quote:

1. SUICIDE: Men’s suicide rate is 4.6 times higher than that of women’s. [Dept. Health & Human Services — 26,710 males vs 5,700 females]

Not for lack of trying: women attempt it three times as often.




No wonder they get paid less per hour.  They are complete fuckups.





yeaaaah i remember seeing this story about some girl you tried to kobain herself and failed hardcore> face was a messsssss


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shortknight]
    #21863730 - 06/27/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Feminists almost always resort to name calling, shame tactics and rhetoric to try and make their points, to try and silence anyone who disagrees. But that's just par for the course.




Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Care to refute my articles before you go off claiming victory.  Namely:

https://debunkingmras.wordpress.com/2014/03/12/debunking-the-mens-rights-movement-x/

One article.  Lets talk about it.

Quote:

1. SUICIDE: Men’s suicide rate is 4.6 times higher than that of women’s. [Dept. Health & Human Services — 26,710 males vs 5,700 females]

Not for lack of trying: women attempt it three times as often. [1] Researchers have found that gender differences in socialization is the strongest explanation for men’s relative success in suicide attempts. In the United States, for instance, it has been shown that unsuccessful suicide attempts are considered “feminine” while it is considered masculine to succeed. In other words, the fear of being labeled “feminine” or “weak” in a male supremacist culture encourages men to ensure their attempts are successfully completed. [2] The statistic given here also masks that many of these “suicides” were actually murder-suicides. In the United States, an estimated 1,000 to 1,500 people died in suicide attacks each year. [3] More than ninety percent of the offenders are men; nearly all the victims are female. [4]




Is this a claim you make?  Shall we move on to #2 or are you willing to admit you are not actually basing this on logic but have hopped on some anti-feminist bandwagon who may not all be men who are insecure and uncomfortable around independent women, but there is alot of truth to that statement, like perhaps there is to the statement that much of feminism is not effective and not true to the core values of feminism.

We don't go making threads about feminism in the pub, I don't really advocate for feminism that strongly most of the time, but when you come in and start spouting lies and slander based on internet gossip you can fuck the right off with that.




debunkingmras.wordpress... such a reliable source.
" In the United States, for instance, it has been shown that unsuccessful suicide attempts are considered “feminine” while it is considered masculine to succeed. In other words, the fear of being labeled “feminine” or “weak” in a male supremacist culture encourages men to ensure their attempts are successfully completed. [2]" - Sources needed.

So, because women attempt suicide more often but fail... but men are almost always successful...and succeed 5 times more than women.. means that it's considered feminine to fail suicide attempts and masculine to be successful? :lolwut:
What the fuck kind of retarded half ass logic is that? All that shows is that women attempt suicide more often for attention, whereas men actually do it. 

So now we are insecure and uncomfortable around independent women? See the beginning of this post.
I don't think you are really qualified to talk about how we are in reality. I hate feminism so I am insecure and uncomfortable around independent women? :lol: Ok bro.
How many independent women do you know and do you deal with on a daily basis? I live with one.

The Men's rights movement is just a direct RESPONSE to radical feminism, which has infiltrated every layer of society.

There, I addressed your source. Now refute the 40 or so links I provided earlier, which you completely ignored.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21863744 - 06/27/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

MRAs are always making absolute statements about feminists and then failing to recognize the language they use is hyperbole and should not be taken literally.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy] * 1
    #21863755 - 06/27/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Not everyone in ISIS is bad, just because some of them go around blowing innocent people's heads off and causing terror to the world, doesn't mean all of them are like that. You can't just lump them all in the same category bro.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21863768 - 06/27/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The VW bug filled with blonde women and shopping bags parking in my complex right now sure does look oppressed.... Those poor poor women


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Mescalean]
    #21863779 - 06/27/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Women do account for 70% of consumer spending worldwide. So oppressed they are.

Quote:


Right. So... first of all can you please show me this thing about women not being equal to men in the first world? Because you would be right.
Women are given preferential treatment OVER men in MANY situations. Can you give examples of these rights men have that women don't? How about these:

Parental rights:

In California and Montana, A woman can name any man she likes as the father, he gets a letter in the mail, if he does not prove he isn’t the father within 30 days—(suppose the letter gets lost by the USPS?)—he is now the father and must pay. He cannot contest it.

An underage boy who is the victim of statutory rape must pay child support to his rapist when he becomes an adult.

A man who fathers a child and wishes to take custody may have his child adopted out against his will and essentially kidnapped

Right of due process and Trial by a Jury of One’s Peers:

Men who are accused of rape on a University campus can have their right of due process and trial by a jury of their peers stripped from them. In place of it, they can then be “convicted” by the university if the investigating body believes there is a 50.0001% chance that the man committed the rape.

In addition, the accused is not allowed to seek any outside legal counsel, also taking away his right to an attorney.

men are also demonized as rapists due to unequal rape laws that favor women. when you analyze the situation you’ll find that women rape almost as often as men (about 40% of rapists are women) and men are raped just as often if not more than women.

In 2008, a law was passed in England and Wales that allowed long-term domestic violence victims who killed their abuser to be charged with the lesser charge of manslaughter, but this only applies to women.

Women who falsely accuse a man of rape, who would be sent to prison for 10  years if convicted, usually only gets fined or a slap on the wrist.

Men who are falsely accused of rape can have their names published and their lives ruined even if they are not convicted or charged - their accuser is protected and is likely to face no punishment, or a light one.

Secondly, I don't see so-called "men's rights activists".. actively fighting against and campaigning AGAINST women's rights.
Feminism has been allowed to have all their speeches and campaigns and meetings, there isn't radical men's rights activist busting in and trying to silence and censor them
But I see "Feminism" doing it ALL THE TIME against men... IN THE NAME OF FEMINISM. We aren't talking about a few individuals making mistakes or taking things too far.
Here are just a few examples. I've posted some of these before.

Feminists protest and prevent a meeting addressing helping to prevent male suicide
Angry feminists disrupt and shut down a forum for battered husbands
Feminists don't want the government to help unemployed men
Feminists against equal custody laws

Feminists want to create rape laws that exclude women from being charged with rape
Feminists want to shut down female prisons
Feminist want to make it impossible to charge women with rape
Female felons should serve jail sentences at home
Feminists launch campaigns to help girls ONLY in school, while boys are doing worse in EVERY facet of education.
Feminists make sure the gov doesn’t spend money on male shelters or male research.
Founder of Canada's only male shelter for abuse forced to close due to lack of funding before committing suicide.
Feminists send death threats to Erin Pizzey for saying men need abuse shelters too
Feminist changes her mind about "rape culture", when her son is falsely accused of rape.
Feminist attacks a male cartoonist and is hailed a hero of feminism

Extremist feminists stage a mock murder of man and then celebrate
Feminists vandalize and attack a church
Feminists say men cannot be raped
Feminists against Father's day

Study shows that in domestic violence cases, the violence is reciprocal in almost 50% of cases, and in nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases.
But all we ever hear about is male violence against females.
Feminists say men aren't allowed to talk about domestic abuse
Feminists blame males for their abuse.
[url=http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V74-gender-symmetry-with-gramham-Kevan-Method 8-.pdf]Feminists cover up female domestic violence[/url]
The primary aggressor clause where only men get charged with abuse.
Feminist makes up fake assault stories
Jezebel encourages and mocks men who are abused

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Its a shame really. Women do deserve equal pay





Sorry, but you have been lied to by feminist propaganda.

That whole "women earn 70 cents to a man's dollar" myth that is constantly pushed by feminists is complete bullshit.

It does not even account for differences in occupations, positions, education, job tenure or hours worked per week.
When such relevant factors are considered, the wage gap narrows to the point of almost vanishing completely

http://www.examiner.com/article/gender-pay-gap-is-not-what-activists-claim
[url=http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf]http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf[/url]
http://time.com/3222543/5-feminist-myths-that-will-not-die/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/
http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/more-career-options-may-explain-why-fewer-women-pursue-jobs-in-science-and-math.html
The 15 fields where women earn MORE than men for the exact same work.

It's a complex issue, but it boils down to this:

Quote:


Men are far more likely to choose careers that are more dangerous, that naturally pay more (93% of work-related deaths on the job are men)

Men are far more likely to work in higher-paying fields and occupations (by choice) According to the White House report, "In 2009, only 7 percent of female professionals were employed in the relatively high paying computer and engineering fields, compared with 38 percent of male professionals." Professional women, on the other hand, are far more prevalent "in the relatively low-paying education and health care occupations."

Men are far more likely to take work in uncomfortable, isolated, and undesirable locations that pay more.

Men work longer hours than women do. The average fulltime working man works 6 hours per week or 15 percent longer than the average fulltime working woman.

Men are more likely to take jobs that require work on weekends and evenings and therefore pay more.

Even within the same career category, men are more likely to pursue high-stress and higher-paid areas of specialization. For example, within the medical profession, men gravitate to relatively high-stress and high-paying areas of specialization, like surgery, while women are more likely to pursue relatively lower-paid areas of specialization like pediatrician or dentist.

Women business owners make less than half of what male business owners make, which, since they have no boss, means it's independent of discrimination. The reason for the disparity, according to a Rochester Institute of Technology study, is that money is the primary motivator for 76% of men versus only 29% of women. Women place a higher premium on shorter work weeks, proximity to home, fulfillment, autonomy, and safety, according to Nemko

Despite all of the above, unmarried women who've never had a child actually earn more than unmarried men, according to Nemko and data compiled from the Census Bureau.

It's hard to argue with Nemko's position which, simply put, is this: When women make the same career choices as men, they earn the same amount as men. As far as I'm concerned, this is one myth that has been officially and completely busted. Maybe you should celebrate International Women's Day 2011 by empowering women with the truth instead of treating them like victims ... which they're not.








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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21863794 - 06/27/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Not everyone in ISIS is bad, just because some of them go around blowing innocent people's heads off and causing terror to the world, doesn't mean all of them are like that. You can't just lump them all in the same category bro.




What?  I can't?  Isis has a clear message and intent, as does feminism.  Can I group all men together because they cause the most violence?  Why not?

Not all men are bad, feminism does not state that, it states that men are equal to women.  Women do not want to be equal to men in the sense that they want to be more likely to be killed, I don't want to be more likely to be killed either.  Lets work together to fix that, I believe women have valuable input that is ignored because of misogyny.  It's not a looming crisis to me, or the end of the world, but it's an issue I care about and something I feel is still relevant in today's world.

Did you listen to that "war on boys" feminist?  Do you agree with her?  Some feminists criticize her, but if you look at her videos she gets alot of support from thoughtful men and women.  Why give so much attention to the bad aspects of feminism?


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863805 - 06/27/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Because they have the loudest voice and have enacted the largest changes in our society based on their psychotic demands. You are telling us to ignore them?

Third wave feminism most definitely states that all men are bad, and all men are rapists. Modern feminism has taken it even further. I think you want to be a 1st or 2nd wave feminist. Which, the modern feminists would hate you for.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21863825 - 06/27/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, I am telling you that creating an equally belligerent parallel movement is only going to validate them and fan the flames.  I wholeheartedly believe that fringe feminism and fringe MRAs have so much more in common than they are willing to admit, and are guilty of essentially the same exact offense of being brash and obnoxious.  That is my point here. 

I don't see why one is a problem and the other isn't, unless you're on one side or the other.  I identify as a moderate in many regards, not a "modern" feminist which hasn't been concisely defined as far as I'm concerned.  If you don't hate all feminists, don't come in and act like they're all assholes.  It's insulting to what I consider a very worthy cause, which is why I do my best to refute the idea that feminism is nonsense.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21863826 - 06/27/15 11:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

This should solve all the problems!




Dictators and authoritarian governments must look at feminists with admiration.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863835 - 06/27/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Yes, I am telling you that creating an equally belligerent parallel movement is only going to validate them and fan the flames.  I wholeheartedly believe that fringe feminism and fringe MRAs have so much more in common than they are willing to admit, and are guilty of essentially the same exact offense of being brash and obnoxious.  That is my point here. 

I don't see why one is a problem and the other isn't, unless you're on one side or the other.  I identify as a moderate in many regards, not a "modern" feminist which hasn't been concisely defined as far as I'm concerned.  If you don't hate all feminists, don't come in and act like they're all assholes.  It's insulting to what I consider a very worthy cause, which is why I do my best to refute the idea that feminism is nonsense.



And now you are perverting the word "moderate".  Where will your perversion end?


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863850 - 06/27/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Yes, I am telling you that creating an equally belligerent parallel movement is only going to validate them and fan the flames.  I wholeheartedly believe that fringe feminism and fringe MRAs have so much more in common than they are willing to admit, and are guilty of essentially the same exact offense of being brash and obnoxious.  That is my point here. 

I don't see why one is a problem and the other isn't, unless you're on one side or the other.  I identify as a moderate in many regards, not a "modern" feminist which hasn't been concisely defined as far as I'm concerned.  If you don't hate all feminists, don't come in and act like they're all assholes.  It's insulting to what I consider a very worthy cause, which is why I do my best to refute the idea that feminism is nonsense.





Ok. great. But you have still yet to show me what great things modern feminism is doing. You say it's a worthy cause and a positive movement. Show me. I asked for evidence.
I've already shown you TONS of real-world examples of modern feminism trying to destroy the world with their actions. I don't see it as a positive movement. I see it as poison until I am shown otherwise.
You'll have to excuse me, but I can't just take your word for it. Show me what great things feminists are doing to progress our society, and right all the wrongs that their extremist "allies" have already done.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21863897 - 06/27/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

They advocate for womens rights where women are not treated as equals.  You seem to acknowledge that women are above men in some instances, and maybe there is some truth to that, but you failed to prove to me that was the fault of feminists and not men or society at large, or that is representative of all or most feminists beliefs.

It is completely impossible to you that any woman in the world is being mistreated solely because she is not a man?  I guess you're qualify that as within the US borders, so now apparently we operate under a different definition of feminism from the rest of the world?  What would you call the advocacy for women?  No advocacy for women specifically can exist in your mind and not be inherently unfair to men?

If you want to start a movement for men's rights go ahead, but I don't think the popular opinion of people who feel the need to do such things is that off base.

I get it.  You think women want to be treated like men, and that makes you want to hit them, but you feel conflicted and frustrated because you think the fact that they expect not to be hit is sexist.  I don't want to be hit either!


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21863917 - 06/27/15 11:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:

You think women want to be treated like men, and that makes you want to hit them,



What?  I don't think he wants to hit anybody, man or woman.  I certainly don't.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21864046 - 06/27/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I just used that to illustrate a point earlier. No I don't want to hit anyone, unless they physically attack me, then damn straight I am going to defend myself.
Just the double standard of how women can get away with hitting men without any repercussions or expecting to be struck back in most cases.

Society completely shuns men hitting women. Society laughs at women hitting men. That's just the reality.
Yes.. such a male dominated patriarchy we live in that is focused on systematic oppression and abuse of women.. where it's shunned by all of society to hit women. wot.
Even feminists use this argument that men cannot hit women. Yet they want equality. Hm. Gender equality means men get to hit back. That's real equality.

Feminists saying you should never hit a woman. Followed by feminists attacking men.


Reaction in the public to men hitting women


Reaction in the public to women abusing men


And another one all in the same video. First the man attacks the women.. everyone interferes. The same woman attacks the man.. everyone laughs.


And another


This is the double standard. Women can hit men all they want. Men can never hit back. Patriarchy!!!


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21864053 - 06/27/15 12:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Ahhhh gotcha.  Yeah I knew about that stuff.  It is horseshit that women get away with this with no penalty.  I got an ex-wife and that was part of the problem.  Monthly, if ya know what I mean.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21864055 - 06/27/15 12:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)


Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:


true



nice argument. so do you easily turn the other cheek to get wreaked by big penises or is it just for Prisoner's giant shlong?





just because I agreed with him that not all sayings are true, doesn't mean I agree with him about the original argument.


And its ok...ill get "wreaked" by pris's giant shlong(how do you know its giant :lol:) and you can continue to get "wreaked" by zappa's shlong.





I'm not shLong guys, I dont even see how you guys can confuse the two of us


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21864059 - 06/27/15 12:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:

You think women want to be treated like men, and that makes you want to hit them,



What?  I don't think he wants to hit anybody, man or woman.  I certainly don't.




Oh really, you don't appreciate that I assume that about MRAs based on my own personal prejudice?  That's interesting.  I'll take that into account when I next decide to measure again whether you have any credibility as a decent human being whatsoever.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21864081 - 06/27/15 12:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

For the record, I in no way shape or form advocate hitting women. That would be fucked up.
But if feminists want true equality, when they hit a man they should expect to be hit back. That's equality.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21864097 - 06/27/15 12:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Exactly.  Making women into men with no double standard whatsover or no shred of the values associated with femininity remaining in humankind is the ultimate goal of feminism :rolleyes:

I in no way shape of form advocate for female superiority, are you actually telling me I am not a modern feminist?


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21864104 - 06/27/15 12:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Hey, that's feminism's call. I don't make the rules. I believe men should never hit women period. But that's just the male dominated patriarchy speaking I guess.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21864109 - 06/27/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

And yeah, if you consider yourself a moderate feminist, you almost certainly are not a modern feminist, because they are cray cray.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21864112 - 06/27/15 12:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I believe men should never hit men period, but that is just someone who believes everyone deserves to be treated with respect and dignity regardless of gender.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21864118 - 06/27/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well that's where we differ. I don't advocate for violence. But if someone attacks me or my loved one, they are gonna get fucked up.


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21864133 - 06/27/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
I believe men should never hit men period, but that is just someone who believes everyone deserves to be treated with respect and dignity regardless of gender.



Just because I don't think you shouldn't be assaulted has exactly zero to do with me respecting you.  I don't but I am not remotely interested in assaulting you unless you do something really fucking stupid.  Like threatening me or my babies.  Dignity?  That is within you.  Either you are dignified or you aren't.

There is a diminishing pool of people who deserve respect and I think that your attitude is part of the problem.  Respect must be earned, not demanded.  It is not an entitlement and if you think it is I will think less of you


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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21864147 - 06/27/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
I just used that to illustrate a point earlier. No I don't want to hit anyone, unless they physically attack me, then damn straight I am going to defend myself.
Just the double standard of how women can get away with hitting men without any repercussions or expecting to be struck back in most cases.

Society completely shuns men hitting women. Society laughs at women hitting men. That's just the reality.
Yes.. such a male dominated patriarchy we live in that is focused on systematic oppression and abuse of women.. where it's shunned by all of society to hit women. wot.
Even feminists use this argument that men cannot hit women. Yet they want equality. Hm. Gender equality means men get to hit back. That's real equality.

Feminists saying you should never hit a woman. Followed by feminists attacking men.


Reaction in the public to men hitting women


Reaction in the public to women abusing men


And another one all in the same video. First the man attacks the women.. everyone interferes. The same woman attacks the man.. everyone laughs.


And another


This is the double standard. Women can hit men all they want. Men can never hit back. Patriarchy!!!





wow that seems very sexist of the group of people to just assume that because he was a man, he deserved to be hit because he must have been cheating... Learning all kinds of cool  stuff about sexism today. thanks shroomism.


--------------------
FREE BURKE


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: nooneman]
    #21864336 - 06/27/15 01:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

This is the real problem right here. These are real viewpoints in third wave feminism. I know that many of you support women's rights and equality, but neither of those things mean that you're a feminist. Third wave feminism, and I'm not just saying this, this is their real position, is not about equality. Most of you who self identify as feminist would be second or first wave feminists, and you would be rejected and hated by third wave feminists (who have built much of their ideology on bashing second and first wave feminists).

I also have a huge problem with people who spend their lives preaching to people who are already on their side, and then do nothing to change the real world around them. This is a major problem in third wave feminism (and academia in general). They spend all their time going from conference to conference railing against injustice to people who already support everything they're saying, and then they put absolutely no effort into changing anything in real life or real society.

Finally, there is this crazy idea that third wave feminism doesn't need men (or anyone else) to succeed. There is this real idea that if they just all get together and yell at each other loud enough for long enough that somehow the world will change. This is why they have terms like "allies" because they feel that they don't actually need men or anyone else to succeed. You can't succeed at anything by pulling together a bunch of people who already support your beliefs and telling them your beliefs. That's just crazy.



I think you have Third Wave feminism confused with Second Wave feminism.  First wave feminism fought for the right to vote and have equal political representation and inclusion in male-dominated institutions.  It exists today as liberal feminism or "power feminism" (think Hillary Clinton, or any number of female CEOs).  Second Wave feminism focused on the ways that femininity itself was disparaged in society, and sought to reclaim womanhood as something to be proud of and celebrate.  There were some second-wave feminists who took some rather problematic positions on trans issues and sex work, resulting in what became known as the "feminist sex wars."  These "sex wars" occurred within second-wave feminism, so it's not really fair to tarnish the whole movement over the positions of one side of that dispute.  Third-Wave feminism emerged out of a recognition of the need to recognize intersecting forms of oppression such as racism, classism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.  It is predominantly sex-positive, and seeks to call out the white privilege that exists in much of feminism.  So there are a lot of problematic aspects to feminism, and those aspects are continually being called out within feminism.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
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Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Silversoul]
    #21864343 - 06/27/15 01:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i have a question, if i identify as a women, and i hit a women, well lets say she hits me first and i hit her back.  do i go to jail for 'technically' being a man, even tho i prefer to be considered a women?


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Silversoul]
    #21864491 - 06/27/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

This is the real problem right here. These are real viewpoints in third wave feminism. I know that many of you support women's rights and equality, but neither of those things mean that you're a feminist. Third wave feminism, and I'm not just saying this, this is their real position, is not about equality. Most of you who self identify as feminist would be second or first wave feminists, and you would be rejected and hated by third wave feminists (who have built much of their ideology on bashing second and first wave feminists).

I also have a huge problem with people who spend their lives preaching to people who are already on their side, and then do nothing to change the real world around them. This is a major problem in third wave feminism (and academia in general). They spend all their time going from conference to conference railing against injustice to people who already support everything they're saying, and then they put absolutely no effort into changing anything in real life or real society.

Finally, there is this crazy idea that third wave feminism doesn't need men (or anyone else) to succeed. There is this real idea that if they just all get together and yell at each other loud enough for long enough that somehow the world will change. This is why they have terms like "allies" because they feel that they don't actually need men or anyone else to succeed. You can't succeed at anything by pulling together a bunch of people who already support your beliefs and telling them your beliefs. That's just crazy.



I think you have Third Wave feminism confused with Second Wave feminism.  First wave feminism fought for the right to vote and have equal political representation and inclusion in male-dominated institutions.  It exists today as liberal feminism or "power feminism" (think Hillary Clinton, or any number of female CEOs).  Second Wave feminism focused on the ways that femininity itself was disparaged in society, and sought to reclaim womanhood as something to be proud of and celebrate.  There were some second-wave feminists who took some rather problematic positions on trans issues and sex work, resulting in what became known as the "feminist sex wars."  These "sex wars" occurred within second-wave feminism, so it's not really fair to tarnish the whole movement over the positions of one side of that dispute.  Third-Wave feminism emerged out of a recognition of the need to recognize intersecting forms of oppression such as racism, classism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.  It is predominantly sex-positive, and seeks to call out the white privilege that exists in much of feminism.  So there are a lot of problematic aspects to feminism, and those aspects are continually being called out within feminism.





so what you're explaining to us is that this feminist movement is getting
loonier and stupider with each successive 'wave' and that this 'third wave'
is exactly the problem that they claim they want to eradicate


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21864970 - 06/27/15 04:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
For the record, I in no way shape or form advocate hitting women. That would be fucked up.
But if feminists want true equality, when they hit a man they should expect to be hit back. That's equality.





oh cmon...that's just ridiculous.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Offlinedruqs
ALKALOIDOHOLIC
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Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 8,862
Last seen: 4 months, 7 days
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21864976 - 06/27/15 04:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

bloody hell this has gone sour, they will be wanting the right to vote next.


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InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
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Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21865073 - 06/27/15 05:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

Shroomism said:
For the record, I in no way shape or form advocate hitting women. That would be fucked up.
But if feminists want true equality, when they hit a man they should expect to be hit back. That's equality.





oh cmon...that's just ridiculous.




I do have to say something.  If you are going to use that we are a sexually dimorphic species anywhere else, you must also apply it to a man hitting a women.

This is why it is controversial in the UFC for a trans gender man to fight as a woman.


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