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RanOutOfWeed
Sleepy



Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 2,975
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Feminists 2
#22025793 - 07/31/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Do you avoid women who call themselves "feminists". I find them to be highly annoying and often project a very masculine energy that is a major turn off.
I assume they look for men who are major betas and want to be her butler/ gay male girlfriend. 
They tell you they are feminists because they want equal rights and an equal status in society, yet do not consider that men and women are totally different creatures.
If you want to be a man hating lesbian then by all means be one. Don't beat around the bush and torture the poor betas
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Edited by RanOutOfWeed (07/31/15 07:23 PM)
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Nitrous Monkey
selftitled



Registered: 09/21/12
Posts: 3,150
Loc: USA
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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No I just avoid women in general, but I support the cause of feminism from a political and social standpoint. I'll admit I haven't spent much time cultivating my personality through the lens of wolf-pack terminology. I think that is more appropriate when describing the way canine relationships work, but humans are much more complex and capable of using subversive tactics in place of brute force.
I just don't find stereotypical macho men to be that arousing or think that sort of behavior is necessary to further out species at this juncture in history. Most who strive to be alpha do so because they feel they have lost something by assimilating with the modern world, but the fact is things do change. I prefer to pass on my genes by sneaking into other more masculine men's rooms at night and injecting my own sperm into their dickhole, so that when they fuck their wife in a way that leaves them unsatisfied they end up taking care of my kids for me.
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
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RanOutOfWeed
Sleepy



Registered: 12/29/13
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That escalated quickly
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,485
Loc: Texas
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Re: Feminists [Re: Lucis]
#22025922 - 07/31/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fennario said:

shit had me rolling
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
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I don't have a problem with true feminism or women who identify themselves as such. I do dislike it if they are aggressive with their opinions, just like any ideologue
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Sort of like guys (and some gals) who just bring up how much they hate feminism out of the blue like their personal feelings regarding feminists are more valid and important than what feminists have been claiming they are about since before they called it feminism?
I guess that's not aggressive, more whiny, but I pick up alot of hypo-criticism from most anti-feminists I encounter.
Edited by moonrockmushy (07/31/15 08:00 PM)
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Bassfreak
ManBearPig



Registered: 08/24/10
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feminists suck
they are completely delusional
-------------------- Tom Brady is a God Free Tom Brady
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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We all have the same rights. Male or female.
It all depends on the salary of your lawyer really...
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Quote:
RanOutOfWeed said: Do you avoid women who call themselves "feminists". I find them to be highly annoying and often project a very masculine energy that is a major turn off.
I assume they look for men who are major betas and want to be her butler/ gay male girlfriend. 
they actually seek out assholes that will boss them around and treat them like dirt when they arent busy dyking out and being stare raped
Quote:
They tell you they are feminists because they want equal rights and an equal status in society, yet do not consider that men and women are totally different creatures.
no, they tell you they're feminists because they're obnoxious cunts that want to feel like they belong to something important, they just dont realize that feminism isnt important to anyone but them which is why they come up with even more outlandish claims for they attention whoring bitches that they are
Quote:
If you want to be a man hating lesbian then by all means be one. Don't beat around the bush and torture the poor betas
the betas do it to themselves, that's why they're beta
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bm0322
Ya Boy

Registered: 08/01/14
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I'm just gonna go ahead and ignore most of the boneheaded posts in here and see if anyone actually wants to talk about this.
I support equal rights for men and women, but I acknowledge that there are real differences between the sexes. We're never going to have wage parity or even political parity because women are inherently less likely to be the personality type that gains power/money than men are. Women are not as aggressive or assertive as a general rule.
I appreciate honest feminists, but I think most turn it into an emotional argument rather than a logical one.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Feminists [Re: Patlal]
#22026061 - 07/31/15 08:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's a fair point that in many situations there are much more important things than gender that cause unneeded divides and hostility between people, and some feminists could definitely take that into account, but that doesn't change the fact that there are cases where women are mistreated and that treatment is justified by cultural standards that show disfavor to women.
Are there situations where men are mistreated due to cultural standards? Sure. Feminism addresses that but in a way that takes in many different perspectives not only "that is the way it was, that is the way it should be". To say that the whole legacy of feminism is a dishonest attempt to elevate women into a position above men is a huge slap in the face to the entire civil rights movement, and the women who have benefited from that.
I cannot imagine a world where many women are basically expected to be domestic slaves solely because they are women, so I am thankful to feminism for that. I think there are things we still need to work on which I doubt will ever be fully solved as long as we are human, but I don't go around yelling to everyone about feminism because pretty much every educated person agrees with me on all this even if they'll rail on feminism now and then.
Sure the fantasy of submissive women is nice, but to be honest I have no patience for weak simpletons I want my women to be as strong as they can possibly be. I am firmly against human slavery, which sounds obvious like of course we can all agree on that, but human slavery does exist and one of the main things keeping it going is men who think it is ok to exploit women or children because they can. It's one thing to engage in fantasy or consensual role play, but I just can't respect anyone who wants to ignore that problem and pretend like women aren't abused in this world. I'd never let the fact that some feminists are obnoxious and belligerent make me oppose feminism as a whole as long as women anywhere in the world continue to be treated as sub-human.
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bm0322
Ya Boy

Registered: 08/01/14
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Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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What do you think about the feminists who constantly rail against misogyny in media?
It seems like every debate I have with a feminists, at some point they talk about how popular music and movies all degrade women, and that is the basis for social norms that hurt women. Personally I find that I can (and do) hugely enjoy and appreciate rap and movies with seductive women, and still respect women as individuals.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Feminists [Re: bm0322] 1
#22026097 - 07/31/15 08:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bm0322 said: What do you think about the feminists who constantly rail against misogyny in media?
It seems like every debate I have with a feminists, at some point they talk about how popular music and movies all degrade women, and that is the basis for social norms that hurt women. Personally I find that I can (and do) hugely enjoy and appreciate rap and movies with seductive women, and still respect women as individuals.
What do feminists say when men and fathers are portrayed as the dumbest character in every TV show? Not a word.
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bm0322
Ya Boy

Registered: 08/01/14
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Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: Feminists [Re: qman]
#22026107 - 07/31/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Agreed. When I bring that up, their response is that men are not systematically oppressed the way women are.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Feminists [Re: bm0322]
#22026108 - 07/31/15 08:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't really encounter that too often to be honest, certainly not IRL at least. I tend to assume it is mostly blown out of proportion, but then again I don't have a tumblr, facebook, or twitter account so maybe I am just out of touch. Whenever I have sought out a credible and thoughtful feminist viewpoint on a gender-related subject I was interested in I have not had a problem finding it.
If you want to give me a specific issue and I can show you that there is a genuine and well thought out side to feminism I will do my best, but I find very few people here actually want to talk about positive aspects of feminism. I'm perfectly fine letting the subject rest, but I don't like to see people trash it as if it were something that wasn't good about our culture overall.
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bm0322
Ya Boy

Registered: 08/01/14
Posts: 19
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: Feminists [Re: bm0322]
#22026140 - 07/31/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Okay fair enough. Do you agree that affirmative action policies for women in typically male-dominated fields such as finance, computer science, economics, etc, are a good thing for society?
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Feminists [Re: bm0322]
#22026150 - 07/31/15 08:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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They tend to interfere too much with making sandwiches
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Feminists [Re: bm0322]
#22026174 - 07/31/15 09:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bm0322 said: Okay fair enough. Do you agree that affirmative action policies for women in typically male-dominated fields such as finance, computer science, economics, etc, are a good thing for society?
Again, I think they are probably blown out of proportion. Women are making more of an impact in some field than others, but I think overall there are not as many laws related to "affirmative action" as some people make out.
If someone feels this is an important issue I am open to consider a well thought out plan to empower women, but women have also made plenty of significant contributions on their own since way before I was born without any "affirmative action". Anyone who points to the existence of policies aimed at balancing gender inequalities to explain why there are women in the workplace is kidding themselves in my mind.
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my3rdeye



Registered: 08/10/12
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Loc: Canada
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bm0322
Ya Boy

Registered: 08/01/14
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Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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I agree more women are making a difference today as a result of the general empowerment of women as comapared to 60 years ago, but do you think the policies themselves are a good thing? From a moral/ethical standpoint, do you think we should allow women preference in some activities because they have historically failed to make an impact on that field?
Talking about things like internships, scholarships for women in male fields.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Feminists [Re: bm0322]
#22026263 - 07/31/15 09:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't think that enacting policies to change the demographics of an institution so that women are more fairly represented is inherently bad. I can acknowledge that some such policies might be misguided, but I can't really say I feel that the trend has resulted in a lowering of quality standards, or harmed men in any way.
Unless you're going to point to a specific policy, I think much of what you're talking about is more often a voluntary practice enacted by private institutions for benefits either from a personal ethics standpoint or for public relations reasons. I wish it was a thing that would happen in a timely and organic manner, but these policies are such a small part of a larger movement I think it is a mistake to write off feminism because you disagree with certain tactics.
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luvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
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Re: Feminists [Re: bm0322]
#22026266 - 07/31/15 09:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bm0322 said: I'm just gonna go ahead and ignore most of the boneheaded posts in here and see if anyone actually wants to talk about this.
I support equal rights for men and women, but I acknowledge that there are real differences between the sexes. We're never going to have wage parity or even political parity because women are inherently less likely to be the personality type that gains power/money than men are. Women are not as aggressive or assertive as a general rule.
I appreciate honest feminists, but I think most turn it into an emotional argument rather than a logical one.
http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=hire_women
Edited by luvdemboomers (07/31/15 09:35 PM)
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luvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: I don't think that enacting policies to change the demographics of an institution so that women are more fairly represented is inherently bad. I can acknowledge that some such policies might be misguided, but I can't really say I feel that the trend has resulted in a lowering of quality standards, or harmed men in any way.
Unless you're going to point to a specific policy, I think much of what you're talking about is more often a voluntary practice enacted by private institutions for benefits either from a personal ethics standpoint or for public relations reasons. I wish it was a thing that would happen in a timely and organic manner, but these policies are such a small part of a larger movement I think it is a mistake to write off feminism because you disagree with certain tactics.
Voluntary as in companies are voluntarily hiring people less qualified based on their race or gender so they get tax breaks and don't get sued?
Edited by luvdemboomers (07/31/15 09:46 PM)
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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I stopped the video when he started his plug for 'The Alphabet of Manliness' sorry but I'm going to stand by my assertion that inequality still exists and I'm not going to criticize someone solely on the fact that they attempt to remedy this.
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bm0322
Ya Boy

Registered: 08/01/14
Posts: 19
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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What's your basis for asserting that inequality still exists?
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luvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: I stopped the video when he started his plug for 'The Alphabet of Manliness' sorry but I'm going to stand by my assertion that inequality still exists and I'm not going to criticize someone solely on the fact that they attempt to remedy this.
what you can't handle logic?
My last reply wasn't about the video FYI
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Janky Tits
Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 4,037
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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I don't really like feminists. I don't really like activists in general. People who spend their time obsessing over shit and being die hard supporters of shit like this turn me off. I avoid ultra liberal girls too who won't shut up about social justice shit or inequality, it's like "ok we get it your a social justice warrior etc but do you think you can not be so fucking obsessed with that shit all the fucking time?"
It gets very irritating. I avoid them thoroughly. I usually look for like minded girls to be with aka girls who just want to chill and smoke a J or go to the club and roll and just rage all night and not have a giant stick up their ass and not give a fuck about bullshit like feminism or social justice to that extent.
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sun_spots
Good boob day


Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 14,306
Loc: Nirvana
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Oh good, it's this thread again.
-------------------- ShiVersblood said: shut ur fucking mouth. before a penis is are be enters LordSenate said: Cheese poop... Who gives a fuck gotta eat lots of cheese.
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Dawks
Jolly African Potato


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4,935
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Quote:
RanOutOfWeed said: Do you avoid women who call themselves "feminists". I find them to be highly annoying and often project a very masculine energy that is a major turn off.
Personally I don't actively avoid people who identify as feminists because most of them are simply directionless people looking for a label to apply to themselves. These people are not necessarily true man hating bigots, rather just young people looking to fit in and be part of a cause. I think we've all gone through that phase.
As for feminism as a whole I really think it needs to be exposed for what it is: a political motivated, sexist hate group that preys upon young people who don't know any better.
Think of it this way OP. Imagine if on your first day of university someone asked you: "ARE YOU A NAZI??" to which you replied: "what is that?" and they answered: "Oh, we Nazi's simply believe that white people should be taken seriously and treated fairly and justly!" to which you replied "I agree, I guess I am a Nazi after all!"
I can't really hold it against you that you chose to identify with the Nazis because you really didn't know any better and simply bought into their clever recruitment strategy. It's the group itself I take issue with and it's deceptive practices, not you. After all if you chose not to identify as a Nazi you may have been branded a White-hater.
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date ; unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep
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yogabunny
fancy cat



Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 11,281
Loc: Nasty Women Get Shit Done
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Quote:
RanOutOfWeed said: Do you avoid women who call themselves "feminists". I find them to be highly annoying and often project a very masculine energy that is a major turn off.
I assume they look for men who are major betas and want to be her butler/ gay male girlfriend. 
They tell you they are feminists because they want equal rights and an equal status in society, yet do not consider that men and women are totally different creatures.
If you want to be a man hating lesbian then by all means be one. Don't beat around the bush and torture the poor betas
quick, stick your finger down your throat and un-swallow the red pill before you turn into a sadistic woman hating psychopath.

ps - happy to see this new exciting topic in the pube again!
--------------------
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Feminists [Re: Dawks]
#22028258 - 08/01/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You do realize that you're comparing a specific organized group that killed millions of people in cold blood with a collection of ideologies centered around the idea that women deserve equal treatment and recognition. You sound legitimately insane to me. Ideas don't kill people.
I think anti-feminism needs to be exposed for what it is: a bunch of whinging neckbeards who can't reconcile the fact that the modern understanding of human rights has made it so that socially incompetent men cannot rely on their rage alone to get their dick wet.
This is really an important cause, standing up to outspoken college-age women who go on the internet and get passionate about human rights. That is not a complete waste of time at all 
Quote:
bm0322 said: What's your basis for asserting that inequality still exists?
"Women and girls make up 98% of victims of trafficking for sexual exploitation.5" http://www.equalitynow.org/node/1010
That enough?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
Quote:
bm0322 said: What's your basis for asserting that inequality still exists?
"Women and girls make up 98% of victims of trafficking for sexual exploitation.5" http://www.equalitynow.org/node/1010
That enough?
Its the inequality with men in that statistic that disturbs you?
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: I stopped the video when he started his plug for 'The Alphabet of Manliness' sorry but I'm going to stand by my assertion that inequality still exists and I'm not going to criticize someone solely on the fact that they attempt to remedy this.
it's a shame because you'd have learned that the average wage for a worker at Ralph Lauren is $1612 per hour
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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I'm not really understanding the question. I am bothered by anyone that takes an attitude regarding sex and gender implying that all significant problems have been solved at some undefined point in the past. The fact that women take the brunt of sexual exploitation is obvious to me, I don't need a statistic myself. I don't see any way of addressing that problem that doesn't recognize that unfair cultural standards for women is part of what allows this to occur.
I am perfectly happy calling the struggle for gender equality feminism. You might think there are no problems like this in the US, but I'd call you naive or ignorant.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: I think anti-feminism needs to be exposed for what it is: a bunch of whinging neckbeards who can't reconcile the fact that the modern understanding of human rights has made it so that socially incompetent men cannot rely on their rage alone to get their dick wet.
should we expose feminism for what it is, a bunch of whiney cunts seeking more rights than men, basing their experiences on lies and the hype of others while trying to blame their reckless and promiscuous behavior and some falsehood of patriarchy
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: I am perfectly happy calling the struggle for gender equality feminism. You might think there are no problems like this in the US, but I'd call you naive or ignorant.
in what way are women not equal?
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luvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
moonrockmushy said: I am perfectly happy calling the struggle for gender equality feminism. You might think there are no problems like this in the US, but I'd call you naive or ignorant.
in what way are women not equal?
I second this question. Men are discriminated against much more than women today. I have nothing against true feminism, but this modern neo-feminist movement is complete and utter liberal bullshit fed by misinformation and lies.
Edited by luvdemboomers (08/01/15 01:26 PM)
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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And I have nothing against people who criticize feminism, but this doublethink version of true vs. modern feminism is guilty of everything it accuses "modern" feminism of and then some.
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luvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: And I have nothing against people who criticize feminism, but this doublethink version of true vs. modern feminism is guilty of everything it accuses "modern" feminism of and then some.
how so?
Edited by luvdemboomers (08/01/15 02:19 PM)
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Cosmic_Flame
THE BREAKFAST EMPRESS



Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 4,184
Loc: Under The Sea
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Quote:
yogabunny said:
Quote:
RanOutOfWeed said: Do you avoid women who call themselves "feminists". I find them to be highly annoying and often project a very masculine energy that is a major turn off.
I assume they look for men who are major betas and want to be her butler/ gay male girlfriend. 
They tell you they are feminists because they want equal rights and an equal status in society, yet do not consider that men and women are totally different creatures.
If you want to be a man hating lesbian then by all means be one. Don't beat around the bush and torture the poor betas
quick, stick your finger down your throat and un-swallow the red pill before you turn into a sadistic woman hating psychopath.

ps - happy to see this new exciting topic in the pube again!
-------------------- Pull the blinds and change their minds....
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Quote:
Cosmic_Flame said:
Quote:
yogabunny said:
Quote:
RanOutOfWeed said: Do you avoid women who call themselves "feminists". I find them to be highly annoying and often project a very masculine energy that is a major turn off.
I assume they look for men who are major betas and want to be her butler/ gay male girlfriend. 
They tell you they are feminists because they want equal rights and an equal status in society, yet do not consider that men and women are totally different creatures.
If you want to be a man hating lesbian then by all means be one. Don't beat around the bush and torture the poor betas
quick, stick your finger down your throat and un-swallow the red pill before you turn into a sadistic woman hating psychopath.

ps - happy to see this new exciting topic in the pube again!

Cosmic, check your text messages.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Quote:
luvdemboomers said: Quote:
moonrockmushy said: And I have nothing against people who criticize feminism, but this doublethink version of true vs. modern feminism is guilty of everything it accuses "modern" feminism of and then some.
how so?
I mean mostly it is just a bunch of whiny people who blame others for their own problems, but I believe at least feminists are more genuine and that their passion is rooted in something I feel is worthy of discussion. It is a defined set of ideals and I can formulate an argument around what ideas or practices best serve the vision of gender equality.
When people start to say that is not the goal of feminism, that feminism is inherently dishonest and manipulative, I always wonder who that person is and what they're bringing to the table. This is my opinion here, so take it for what you will, but I believe feminism has a long record of accomplishments and contributions to our shared culture which can be built on in honest ways, where the anti-feminist movement is nearly always being evasive, not saying what it really means, and stemming from the idea that women's role in society was better defined at some point in the past when they were unarguably more oppressed.
If that isn't the case, what is anti-feminism offering? What is the action plan? Is there any changes anti-feminists have made to the world that you could point to and say, "I'm proud to be a part of that."?
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luvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
Quote:
luvdemboomers said: Quote:
moonrockmushy said: And I have nothing against people who criticize feminism, but this doublethink version of true vs. modern feminism is guilty of everything it accuses "modern" feminism of and then some.
how so?
I mean mostly it is just a bunch of whiny people who blame others for their own problems, but I believe at least feminists are more genuine and that their passion is rooted in something I feel is worthy of discussion. It is a defined set of ideals and I can formulate an argument around what ideas or practices best serve the vision of gender equality.
When people start to say that is not the goal of feminism, that feminism is inherently dishonest and manipulative, I always wonder who that person is and what they're bringing to the table. This is my opinion here, so take it for what you will, but I believe feminism has a long record of accomplishments and contributions to our shared culture which can be built on in honest ways, where the anti-feminist movement is nearly always being evasive, not saying what it really means, and stemming from the idea that women's role in society was better defined at some point in the past when they were unarguably more oppressed.
If that isn't the case, what is anti-feminism offering? What is the action plan? Is there any changes anti-feminists have made to the world that you could point to and say, "I'm proud to be a part of that."?
I've never heard of an argument against feminsm that consisted of men blaming women for their problems. As as far as anti-feminism? I and most other men are not against feminism. We are against giving a group of people preferential treatment based on their race or gender. This is why I made the differentiation for what feminism used to be and what it has evolved to be. I'm all for women being able to vote and work jobs that were traditionally men-only (given they weren't given the job just over a better qualified male candidate just because they are female). I'm not all for shitty mothers given custody over a good dad just because they're female. Or the demonizing of men through rape culture propganda with statistics such as one in four femal college students are raped. Or the lies about how women earn 75% what men make for the same position. Modern feminism is based on lies and disinformation. As far as what anti-feminists have accomplished? obviously not much as year by year men, especially white men, are being more and more discriminated against.
So what is the feminist movement trying to accomplish in 2015? And how are women oppressed today?
Edited by luvdemboomers (08/01/15 02:50 PM)
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Quote:
luvdemboomers said:
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moonrockmushy said:
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luvdemboomers said: Quote:
moonrockmushy said: And I have nothing against people who criticize feminism, but this doublethink version of true vs. modern feminism is guilty of everything it accuses "modern" feminism of and then some.
how so?
I mean mostly it is just a bunch of whiny people who blame others for their own problems, but I believe at least feminists are more genuine and that their passion is rooted in something I feel is worthy of discussion. It is a defined set of ideals and I can formulate an argument around what ideas or practices best serve the vision of gender equality.
When people start to say that is not the goal of feminism, that feminism is inherently dishonest and manipulative, I always wonder who that person is and what they're bringing to the table. This is my opinion here, so take it for what you will, but I believe feminism has a long record of accomplishments and contributions to our shared culture which can be built on in honest ways, where the anti-feminist movement is nearly always being evasive, not saying what it really means, and stemming from the idea that women's role in society was better defined at some point in the past when they were unarguably more oppressed.
If that isn't the case, what is anti-feminism offering? What is the action plan? Is there any changes anti-feminists have made to the world that you could point to and say, "I'm proud to be a part of that."?
I've never heard of an argument against feminsm that consisted of men blaming women for their problems.
Then you are in denial regarding the substance of the anti-feminist argument
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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luvdemboomers
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
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luvdemboomers said:
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moonrockmushy said:
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luvdemboomers said:
how so?
I mean mostly it is just a bunch of whiny people who blame others for their own problems, but I believe at least feminists are more genuine and that their passion is rooted in something I feel is worthy of discussion. It is a defined set of ideals and I can formulate an argument around what ideas or practices best serve the vision of gender equality.
When people start to say that is not the goal of feminism, that feminism is inherently dishonest and manipulative, I always wonder who that person is and what they're bringing to the table. This is my opinion here, so take it for what you will, but I believe feminism has a long record of accomplishments and contributions to our shared culture which can be built on in honest ways, where the anti-feminist movement is nearly always being evasive, not saying what it really means, and stemming from the idea that women's role in society was better defined at some point in the past when they were unarguably more oppressed.
If that isn't the case, what is anti-feminism offering? What is the action plan? Is there any changes anti-feminists have made to the world that you could point to and say, "I'm proud to be a part of that."?
I've never heard of an argument against feminsm that consisted of men blaming women for their problems.
Then you are in denial regarding the substance of the anti-feminist argument
Perhaps you can enlightmen me as how feminists are being blamed for mens self-created problems?
What is feminism trying to accomplish in 2015? Specifically, not the generic so we aren't opressed answer.
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Formulate an anti-feminist argument that doesn't consist of blaming women for their own victimization by society.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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luvdemboomers
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: Formulate an anti-feminist argument that doesn't consist of blaming women for their own victimization by society.
where did I do that?
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luvdemboomers said:
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BlindSophist said: Formulate an anti-feminist argument that doesn't consist of blaming women for their own victimization by society.
where did I do that?
You didn't. Nobody did. It is impossible.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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luvdemboomers
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
luvdemboomers said:
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BlindSophist said: Formulate an anti-feminist argument that doesn't consist of blaming women for their own victimization by society.
where did I do that?
You didn't. Nobody did. It is impossible.
I meant where did I blame women for their own "victimization"....
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luvdemboomers
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anyone wanna take over? I'm getting tired of arguing with a wall...
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I accused you of no such thing.
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luvdemboomers
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: I accused you of no such thing.
it was implied considering this whole thread I've been stating my problems with feminism
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moonrockmushy
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So nobody is an anti-feminist here, they just blame feminism for causing problems or at least not doing enough regarding alleged preferential treatment of women in child custody litigation, and policies that supposedly favor women in jobs where men traditionally were the majority of the field.
Those are the core of the reasonings behind resentment of "modern" feminists?
Somehow I doubt that.
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luvdemboomers
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: So nobody is an anti-feminist here, they just blame feminism for causing problems or at least not doing enough regarding alleged preferential treatment of women in child custody litigation, and policies that supposedly favor women in jobs where men traditionally were the majority of the field.
Those are the core of the reasonings behind resentment of "modern" feminists?
Somehow I doubt that.
You've yet answer what feminism is trying to accomplish, and how you are oppressed.
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luvdemboomers
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let me guess, you expect men to hold the door open for you and pay for dinner?
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zappaisgod
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There are market based reasons why women make less money in many jobs. Like their likelihood to fuckoff and be moms and that their health care costs are way higher. Do you know where they make more than men around here? Real estate sales. You see almost no men in the office. Also stripping and prostitution. Probably a few others. What is most involved, though, is that they go into fields that any asshole can do, like social work, and they take fewer chances.
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luvdemboomers
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: There are market based reasons why women make less money in many jobs. Like their likelihood to fuckoff and be moms and that their health care costs are way higher. Do you know where they make more than men around here? Real estate sales. You see almost no men in the office. Also stripping and prostitution. Probably a few others. What is most involved, though, is that they go into fields that any asshole can do, like social work, and they take fewer chances.
not to mention they are less likely to negotiate for a raise or higher pay
The video I posted that moonrock didn't want to watch broke it down pretty good.
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zappaisgod
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If I ever had a reason to negotiate a deal outside of my job my wife is doing it. She is an extremely successful real estate agent and her negotiation skills are not limited to real estate. But she is a rarity.
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moonrockmushy
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No I believe that feminism provides an avenue to address issues that were previously overlooked because people feel that the roles set out for men and women are inevitable and permanent, and sometimes even divinely sanctioned.
As a human being I feel it is my responsibility to speak up where I see injustice, and I think that the idea that many people have of women being inherently subservient to men is not only unjust, it's just not true. Not since we lived as warring tribes with no understanding of the importance of community and inclusiveness in regards to allowing all humans to reach their fullest potential has brute strength determined who is superior, and as we move into a time where automation of labor can allow everyone the benefits of modern technology I think it is increasingly important to pay attention to social issues that intend to divide people along lines of gender, race, or nationality.
The fact is we don't need macho assholes going into the future, and aspects of masculinity that people cling to which are harmful to society as a whole must be changed. Feminism cannot achieve goals without changing men as well as women, and I feel my personal part in feminism is not only behaving in a way that shows respect and tolerance of women in all aspects of culture, but also to promote the ideal of equality through discourse, art, and media.
I can't speak for all feminists, and I definitely can't speak for women, but I would be lying if I didn't say there are no instances in my life where I have seen mis-treatment of women that was justified by misogynist logic. Does that get blown out of proportion by some feminists? Perhaps, but from my perspective I see alot of people using the fact that those arguments exist as proof that feminists hate men, when the arguments themselves are not refuted it is more just a judgement call based on how women or feminists saying such things about society makes you feel. I don't want any part of that, and I do want to acknowledge the important contributions of women, and I hope the role of women in the public sphere continues to grow not just in America but worldwide.
What would you say to someone from Saudi Arabia who wanted to know how feminism has worked out for western culture? Would you tell them that the feminism we have is twisted and perverse, but they need to embrace women and enable them to live as equals to men? Do you wish the role of women more closely resembled what it was 50 or 100 years ago, or do you just want people to not call the struggle for gender equality feminism because you find that emasculating?
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luvdemboomers
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Quote:
As a human being I feel it is my responsibility to speak up where I see injustice
I agree
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the idea that many people have of women being inherently subservient to men is not only unjust, it's just not true
Agreed, as do the majority of people today, we don't need feminism for that
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I think it is increasingly important to pay attention to social issues that intend to divide people along lines of gender, race, or nationality.
like the feminists movement?
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The fact is we don't need macho assholes going into the future, and aspects of masculinity that people cling to which are harmful to society as a whole must be changed.
You can't keep assholes from being assholes, most men aren't like that. As a matter of fact, I hate those types of douchebags. You are stereotyping if you are lumping the idea of masculinity/men into this category. Another thing, people can't be changed if they don't want to change. This is one of the major flaws in liberal ideology.
Edited by luvdemboomers (08/01/15 05:01 PM)
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zappaisgod
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He is not only a race bigot
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luvdemboomers
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: He is not only a race bigot
huh?
Also I'm not a race bigot. I love all races... except blacks
Edited by luvdemboomers (08/01/15 05:05 PM)
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Quote:
luvdemboomers said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: He is not only a race bigot
huh?
Also I'm not a race bigot. I love all races... except blacks 
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moonrockmushy
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I'm not lumping men in that category, I'm saying that men shouldn't cling to outdated notions of masculinity that rely on the ability to physically overpower women in a given scenario. You seem to acknowledge people do this, and that we should unite against this, but you're stereotyping feminists as women who hate men.
That's the problem with conservative ideology. They exist on the premise that social progress is a bad thing, and when they can't argue this in a logical manner they have no problem resorting to lies and half-truths to try and convince people that there is some indescribable evil underneath the words that are defined in a quite simple and straightforward way, i.e. feminism == hatred of men =/= advocacy for gender equality
Why do you insist that feminism is something other than what it is in the dictionary? Do you actually believe there are no issues where women face cultural standards that oppress them in some way, or do you just not care because that is outside the bubble of what effects you personally?
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akira_akuma
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people who are grabasstic assholes, insist on having more for themselves for no good reason aside from their rhetorical nuance, and who act high and mighty because they come from a standpoint of "i deserve this because..." are all shitty fuckin' people deep down in their cores.
but it's what people are trained to do, so i can't blame them on any individual basis. so.... lets blame one group or the other, right?
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luvdemboomers
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: I'm not lumping men in that category, I'm saying that men shouldn't cling to outdated notions of masculinity that rely on the ability to physically overpower women in a given scenario. You seem to acknowledge people do this, and that we should unite against this, but you're stereotyping feminists as women who hate men.
That's the problem with conservative ideology. They exist on the premise that social progress is a bad thing, and when they can't argue this in a logical manner they have no problem resorting to lies and half-truths to try and convince people that there is some indescribable evil underneath the words that are defined in a quite simple and straightforward way, i.e. feminism == hatred of men =/= advocacy for gender equality
Why do you insist that feminism is something other than what it is in the dictionary? Do you actually believe there are no issues where women face cultural standards that oppress them in some way, or do you just not care because that is outside the bubble of what effects you personally?
Because all the fucking time I hear about these batshit feminazis doing some crazy shit. It seems like the majority want to have their cake and eat it too. Sure there are some issues, I just believe they are blown out of proportion and a lot of it is nothing but misinformation. I agree with the idea of feminism I just think today the majority of feminists take things way too fucking far. Of course there are exceptions.
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luvdemboomers
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for the record are you fat and or ugly?
sorry couldn't help myself
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akira_akuma
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note: there are on occasion extremely hot feminazi's.
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moonrockmushy
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Ok, well take those feelings and subtract the whole legacy of activism that allowed women a voice and larger role in modern culture, and that is how I feel about anti-feminism.
I think we're getting eachother.
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moonrockmushy
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Quote:
luvdemboomers said: for the record are you fat and or ugly?
sorry couldn't help myself
Judge fer yerself
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bm0322
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...? Women have all the rights and opportunities that men have in developed countries.
Women are more likely to be victims of sexual violence like you mentioned, but men are far more likely to be victims of violence in general (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime). Men are given longer prison sentences in general, and men make up virtually all casualties in war.
Pointing to one statistic that says women are the victims of sexual trafficking does not show that there is gender inequality, only gender differences.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Feminists [Re: bm0322] 1
#22030639 - 08/01/15 09:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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lets make things even and just slay a bunch of women for their lack of casualties in war. only fair.
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moonrockmushy
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Re: Feminists [Re: bm0322]
#22030737 - 08/01/15 09:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think that makes the point that feminism cannot achieve it's goals without men agreeing that humans are made inherently equal, not only in our words, but in our actions. The fact that some progress has been made does not change the fact that women are still oppressed, as are men. The idea that men are superior to women is not only something that people say, it is something that people try to prove by degrading and abusing women in both subversive and overt ways.
Sometimes it is men who allow this to happen, sometimes it is women, that is aside from the point. It happens. If all this is over your head and you don't feel capable of making a change, fine, don't be a feminist. I for one refuse the whole notion that men can't help the way women are treated, and women can't stop it. Woman can stand up for themselves, they have, and they will continue. If you think they're going about it all the wrong way I have to think that you disagree with the fundamental notion of human equality, or are operating on a level where you refuse to consider anything that makes you feel like less of a man.
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scruffymafia
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.
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Edited by scruffymafia (06/20/20 11:58 PM)
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luvdemboomers
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Quote:
scruffymafia said: I'm a guy who's gone from being anti-feminist to being staunchly feminist. I'll admit, some feminists give me the absolute shits and/or totally fuck me off, but don't let the radicals write-off a whole group. Judging all feminists for the actions of a few is exactly the same as judging a whole race on the actions of a few.
Most females these days are feminists, they may not tell you because many modern men have stupid biases and preconceptions about feminism, but if you show them some respect, they'll open up and tell what they believe and why. And you should listen. Listening to the stories of my ordinary everyday female friends was what converted me.
Why do we need feminism? Because gender discrimination is pervasive throughout our society. It's fucking everywhere. I feel so fucking privileged being able to walk home in the middle of the night and not have creeps follow me home, to not have to fear for my safety whenever I'm alone in public, to not have to be constantly prepared to defend myself at night, to be able to get completely drunk and know I'll be safe, to not have to take stranger danger / self-defense classes in school (why is there no how to not be a creepy/rapey male class in school?), to not have to question the intentions of all males I meet, to not have to be treated like a mindless piece of meat by strangers, to have my opinion seriously considered by others, to be valued on my intellectual abilities and not my looks, to be free from the plethora of societal expectations that are put on females...I could go on.
Granted, things are getting better, but pretty much all girls will say shit still sucks. Most females have just gotten jaded and used to it...they may seem happy enough, but deep down they resent it.
And why should you want feminism? How could you not want the females in your life to be treated fairly? To be safe and respected?
If y'all could walk in the shoes of a female for a day I'm sure you'd instantly change your minds.
I think the real question here is were they asking for it.
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