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InvisibleMikeBearPig
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21860125 - 06/26/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
And what leads to the idea that misogyny no longer exists, or never existed in the first place?




You can't misrepresent my opinion because it does not rely on gender.

If you are a women and you out preform a man in a task , you deserve more and vice versa.  It is not a gender issue, get over it.

As much as you want it to be, its not.. It's only an issue for people who don't want to work hard.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21860139 - 06/26/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
How does equal pay good for a company?

It does nothing to serve the purpose of the company.  All it does it make people feel comfortable, which is bad for a company in every way.  People need something to work for, and it drives innovation.

Ohhhh, sooo sorry you can't feel comfortable everywhere you go.  They have work for you that is equal pay with no goals, one of our fine fast food franchises is perfect for you.

Leave the hard work and real pay to people who want to work for it.




Something to work for: You advancement in the company, increasing your skill, be happy

Driving innovation: If your employees are happy, they will be passionate

People feeling comfortable: There is no such thing in the private sector. You can get fired tomorrow morning

No goals: That's their problem. They will be unhappy and unfulfilled with their lives.

If management is good, these people will get fired. If these people worked for me, I would fire them. If they are not driven, that means they don't like their jobs. I'm looking for passionate people that have an interest in my business. That's what every corporations should do.

Slackers end up on unemployment.

Plus equal pay means less bullshit. If a guy sees another guy in the same position and hire at the same time make more than they do, trust me, they will whine and bitch and claim they work just as much (even if its not true), then they'll start there "shit is unfair" rant. Then they'll resent the other guy, they'll hate management. All that shit. He might be a good employee himself, which is why he'll be bitching. Sure the other might be better, but equal pay is more advantagous to the company then all the bullshit. If you want direct pay for drect effort, get a sales job with commision


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InvisibleMikeBearPig
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Patlal]
    #21860150 - 06/26/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
How does equal pay good for a company?

It does nothing to serve the purpose of the company.  All it does it make people feel comfortable, which is bad for a company in every way.  People need something to work for, and it drives innovation.

Ohhhh, sooo sorry you can't feel comfortable everywhere you go.  They have work for you that is equal pay with no goals, one of our fine fast food franchises is perfect for you.

Leave the hard work and real pay to people who want to work for it.




Something to work for: You advancement in the company, increasing your skill, be happy

Driving innovation: If your employees are happy, they will be passionate

People feeling comfortable: There is no such thing in the private sector. You can get fired tomorrow morning

No goals: That's their problem. They will be unhappy and unfulfilled with their lives.

If management is good, these people will get fired. If these people worked for me, I would fire them. If they are not driven, that means they don't like their jobs. I'm looking for passionate people that have an interest in my business. That's what every corporations should do.

Slackers end up on unemployment.

Plus equal pay means less bullshit. If a guy sees another guy in the same position and hire at the same time make more than they do, trust me, they will whine and bitch and claim they work just as much (even if its not true), then they'll start there "shit is unfair" rant. Then they'll resent the other guy, they'll hate management. All that shit. He might be a good employee himself, which is why he'll be bitching. Sure the other might be better, but equal pay is more advantagous to the company then all the bullshit. If you want direct pay for drect effort, get a sales job with commision




I find giving them equal pay to end their bullshit just submitting to the problem.


Something to work for: You advancement in the company, increasing your skill, be happy
Not going to happen with out a intensive, fantasy land

Driving innovation: If your employees are happy, they will be passionate

People feeling comfortable: There is no such thing in the private sector. You can get fired tomorrow morning

That is what equal pay is. And no, you cant get fired for the reason you need to be fired.  Like not being able to do a psychical demanding job.

No goals: That's their problem. They will be unhappy and unfulfilled with their lives.
Thats great, again, no benefit to the company, a waste of time and money.  Keep your goals out of my business, you don't deserved to get hired by anybody let alone equal pay


Edited by MikeBearPig (06/26/15 01:53 PM)


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21860248 - 06/26/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Listen. I work part time for a book store for minimum salary. I don't need this job at all. I work there because I have too much free time on my hand. Some weeks I get 30 hours, some week I get 16.

Incentive: Technically speaking, fuck all.

And yet I'm here sitting at home writing notes on my own time on how to improve the process. Just today I went into work a few hours after my shift ended this morning just to take measurements of the backroom  so I could fuck around and see if I can make more out of the space we have since we are walking on each other's feet.

Nobody asked me to do this.

I'm doing this for free, on my own time because I love books and I want to make sure more people read. I'm passionate.

Sure I might be the only one. But people like me exist. People create their own incentives.

I'm not alone in the world doing this. Granted I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit and I should be starting my own business instead of wasting my time at minimum salary. But I kinda like the job.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Patlal]
    #21860300 - 06/26/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I wish I could do that but over here we have a hard time getting through each week buying food and paying bills so we work and we do overhours and we work hard so we earn more.

:shrug:


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Invisibleladycakes
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21860359 - 06/26/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

In reference to that poorly written article: the desire to not be harassed is not a product of feminism.  Just because you're not a witness to it, does not mean its not happening. I think Blindsophist gives a pretty accurate view of this from both sides of the argument.

I would by no means, label myself a feminist, but there are multiple instances in which I have been harassed on the street by some asshole that thinks its appropriate to say vile sexual things to me while I'm just going about my day.  It can be truly menacing, and I have had instances in which I have feared for my safety. 

I've got no problem with a guy coming up to me and asking me if I'm single, or saying that I look beautiful.  I am fully aware that for most guys, its a numbers game, and the more women you hit on, the more likely it is that someone will say yes.  In truth, its flattering, regardless of whom the compliment comes from.  There's a big difference between that, and aggressive harassment that leaves me feeling physically unsafe in my own neighborhood.

And you're right, words can only harm us if we allow them to. There are some women that are far more sensitive than others, and they need to grow some thicker skin.  But it boils down to the fact that in general, we are smaller and physically not as strong as our male counterparts.  We grow up with the understanding that if a male really wanted to overpower us, they probably could.  Its a terrifying reality.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21860379 - 06/26/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Men get harassed too but it simply does not occur on the same sort of pervasive, widespread basis. Women can expect to be harassed whenever they go out in public unless they are wearing some equivalent of a burqa. I'm telling you that I've lived daily, public life both as a male and as a female and I was never once harassed, never even SAW harassment when I was a male, but now that I am female it is a routine occurrence.

Again, nobody wants you to feel bad about being a male. Feminists just want you to help us by spending some of your strength and energy on rooting out and ending this type of behavior, or at the very least by setting a strong positive example. Blaming women for their own victimization and characterizing them as oversensitive, lying, manipulative and misandrist for honestly reporting their experiences is not respectful and it is not helpful. It sends harassers the message that you will be looking the other way and it tends to breed the extremist streak feminists sometimes display. Many women have been harassed and then ignored so many times that they have given up on men and learned to see them as the great oppressor. They speak of misogyny in grand, conspiratorial terms because that is in fact the reality they live with. I avoid that type of feminism because I've seen both sides of the coin and I know that most men are well-meaning but imperfect people who wish no wrong by women. They mostly just lack the level of trust necessary to sincerely engage with the issues raised by feminism, and this in turn fuels the radicalization of feminism. Feminism pursues equality, not superiority. It works better when men are helping, not hindering.



Young men get challenged to fight all the time.  It is something they deal with far more than women. 


On my crew if you catcall or disrespect anyone in any way you get one warning.  One.  Saying hi is not cat calling and smiling at a woman is not catcalling but I'm not a big fan of anybody commenting on anybody else's appearance even in a positive way.  I'll do the talking.  You do the work and shut the fuck up


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21860467 - 06/26/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I never got challenged to fights when I was presenting as a male, and I used to go out and get drunk at bars and parties, some in pretty rough neighborhoods, all the time. But then again, I was never exactly the hurly-burly type in the first place so I probably didn't make a very attractive target. I once got my scrawny drunken ass handed to me by a big guy after I tried to woo his big recently-ex girlfriend. That sucked, but the case could be made that I had it coming, and I didn't sustain any serious injuries. That was about it. :shrug:

I guess catcalling (i.e. whistling, etc.) is kind of a gray area. It's certainly not respectful, but it's not on the same level as harassment. Honestly, when a stranger in public has a smoking hot body and you feel the need to express your fleeting attraction, the classy thing to do is to compliment their clothing, i.e. "I love your pants" stands in for "nice ass", you say "cool necklace" when what you really mean is "I want nothing in the world more than to motorboat you this instant", etc. I don't know why this is lost on so many people.


Edited by Sophistic Radiance (06/26/15 02:58 PM)


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #21860488 - 06/26/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)


.


Edited by Beanhead (01/19/16 09:57 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21860494 - 06/26/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I wasn't pretending to be a tough guy either but I got a fair share of challenges.  :shrug:  There is no shortage of assholes who just like to fight.



Like I said, my crew doesn't do that.  And that goes for clothing as well.  If you wouldn't say it to a man you don't say it to a woman.  Period.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21860517 - 06/26/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

sir, if someone looks/took the time to look classy/fashionable you get compliments:snub:

:heart:

But work ethic is work ethic :thumbup:


Edited by Beanhead (06/26/15 03:04 PM)


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InvisibleSheekle
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21860519 - 06/26/15 03:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i compliment guys shirts all the time and same with chicks, with no hidden agenda


--------------------
"Ur cat died because he hated u" - Koods
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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sheekle]
    #21860524 - 06/26/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sheekle said:
i compliment guys shirts all the time and same with chicks, with no hidden agenda




Right, it's just normal. But I guess you have to be careful with a construction crew since that profession is so notorious for catcalling and harassment.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: moonrockmushy] * 1
    #21860589 - 06/26/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
So when feminists attack someone it is because they're feminists and not because they are people who may make mistakes or take things to far.  I see what you're saying there but of course I disagree.

You also seem to outright deny that it is possible that an opposing viewpoint to feminism exists in the modern world that would state women are not equal to men and they do not have a right to speak up when they feel they are being mistreated by men.  I also disagree with this and think we only have feminism to thank for the fact that women in today's world can speak up, and in many ways are less oppressed than they were historically in the western world. 

I'm not entirely clear exactly when you think oppression of women stopped being a problem entirely, but again I don't think that ever happened I think it is still too often a problem.





Right. So... first of all can you please show me this thing about women not being equal to men in the first world? Because you would be right.
Women are given preferential treatment OVER men in MANY situations. Can you give examples of these rights men have that women don't? How about these:

Parental rights:

In California and Montana, A woman can name any man she likes as the father, he gets a letter in the mail, if he does not prove he isn’t the father within 30 days—(suppose the letter gets lost by the USPS?)—he is now the father and must pay. He cannot contest it.

An underage boy who is the victim of statutory rape must pay child support to his rapist when he becomes an adult.

A man who fathers a child and wishes to take custody may have his child adopted out against his will and essentially kidnapped

Right of due process and Trial by a Jury of One’s Peers:

Men who are accused of rape on a University campus can have their right of due process and trial by a jury of their peers stripped from them. In place of it, they can then be “convicted” by the university if the investigating body believes there is a 50.0001% chance that the man committed the rape.

In addition, the accused is not allowed to seek any outside legal counsel, also taking away his right to an attorney.

men are also demonized as rapists due to unequal rape laws that favor women. when you analyze the situation you’ll find that women rape almost as often as men (about 40% of rapists are women) and men are raped just as often if not more than women.

In 2008, a law was passed in England and Wales that allowed long-term domestic violence victims who killed their abuser to be charged with the lesser charge of manslaughter, but this only applies to women.

Women who falsely accuse a man of rape, who would be sent to prison for 10+ years if convicted, usually only gets fined or a slap on the wrist.

Men who are falsely accused of rape can have their names published and their lives ruined even if they are not convicted or charged - their accuser is protected and is likely to face no punishment, or a light one.

Secondly, I don't see so-called "men's rights activists".. actively fighting against and campaigning AGAINST women's rights.
Feminism has been allowed to have all their speeches and campaigns and meetings, there isn't radical men's rights activist busting in and trying to silence and censor them
But I see "Feminism" doing it ALL THE TIME against men... IN THE NAME OF FEMINISM. We aren't talking about a few individuals making mistakes or taking things too far.
Here are just a few examples. I've posted some of these before.

Feminists protest and prevent a meeting addressing helping to prevent male suicide
Angry feminists disrupt and shut down a forum for battered husbands
Feminists don't want the government to help unemployed men
Feminists against equal custody laws

Feminists want to create rape laws that exclude women from being charged with rape
Feminists want to shut down female prisons
Feminist want to make it impossible to charge women with rape
Female felons should serve jail sentences at home
Feminists launch campaigns to help girls ONLY in school, while boys are doing worse in EVERY facet of education.
Feminists make sure the gov doesn’t spend money on male shelters or male research.
Founder of Canada's only male shelter for abuse forced to close due to lack of funding before committing suicide.
Feminists send death threats to Erin Pizzey for saying men need abuse shelters too
Feminist changes her mind about "rape culture", when her son is falsely accused of rape.
Feminist attacks a male cartoonist and is hailed a hero of feminism

Extremist feminists stage a mock murder of man and then celebrate
Feminists vandalize and attack a church
Feminists say men cannot be raped
Feminists against Father's day

Study shows that in domestic violence cases, the violence is reciprocal in almost 50% of cases, and in nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases.
But all we ever hear about is male violence against females.
Feminists say men aren't allowed to talk about domestic abuse
Feminists blame males for their abuse.
Feminists cover up female domestic violence
The primary aggressor clause where only men get charged with abuse.
Feminist makes up fake assault stories
Jezebel encourages and mocks men who are abused

Virtually ALL of these things are done IN THE NAME OF FEMINISM, by self-proclaimed feminists and feminist groups. Are you trying to tell me, that all of these things is just a few isolated incidents of crazy people 'taking things too far and making mistakes'? These are not outliers or just a few extremists. This is the FACE of modern feminism. This is the STANDARD which modern feminism operates on. Just because there are a few sensible and moderate "true" feminists out there, does not discount all this fucking insanity that has made its way into, and is completely accepted by mainstream society.

If "men's rights activists" protested, disrupted and ultimately shut down a forum about Female abuse survivors, or discussing how to help prevent female suicide... you can bet your ass there would be OUTRAGE, likely national media attention and feminists going fucking insane and trying to get them shut down or charged with a crime.


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OfflineShortknight
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21860597 - 06/26/15 03:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

In Canada men and women firefighters have different stardards to become a fireman and fight unbiased fires.:peace::tongue2:


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InvisibleMikeBearPig
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shortknight]
    #21860614 - 06/26/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shortknight said:
In Canada men and women firefighters have different stardards to become a fireman and fight unbiased fires.:peace::tongue2:





This is a perfect example of an area where if you do not lay the line down, it could cost somebody their life.  Very strict hiring policies and if somebody cant make the cut, they get cut.  End of story.  You can't do the job, you get fired or it will cost a person(s) their life.

We must accept that we are a sexually dimorphic species and some jobs just suit men better than women, end of story.

If you are looking for a job and you are a 105lbs woman and you see that the job requirement says, "Must be able to lift 50lbs bags for 6 hours"..

This is a sign to you that you are not welcome.  It's not because you are a woman, it's because you simply cannot do the job correctly and to the standards that we need.

Some people view these as a challenge, take the companies to court.. blah blah, we know the deal.  If you get the idea that the job is trying to tell you to fuck off before you are getting hired, find work elsewhere. 

EVEN IF YOU ARE MALE, you can still fucking suck at your job and not do it right.  Which seemed to be demonstrated every day by our youth in every aspect of our job.  I experienced this every day first hand, men don't deserve equal pay either. 



Edited by MikeBearPig (06/26/15 03:41 PM)


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OfflineGorlax
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shortknight]
    #21860618 - 06/26/15 03:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

If you are even a women here and pass the academy you will be hired FAST... My friend is in peak physical condition and pretty sure he's been trying to get on for 2 years now.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21860634 - 06/26/15 03:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Shroomism, do you think it would be possible to address the points I made on the last two pages? I thought I made some pretty good points, but you seemed to ignore them in your reply to my first post in the thread, so I'll reiterate them again for you.

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Now I'm not saying it's not an issue at all.. but I haven't really ever personally witnessed men harassing women to this extreme that is always talked about. Maybe I'm wrong.. but it doesn't seem to me to be this widespread, out of control issue, if we are talking about a few outliers.




This is the crux of the issue. You haven't witnessed it personally, so you don't believe it exists. But it does exist. You don't see it because the harassers are hiding it from you. They are cowards and they know that you will kick their asses if you see it and they don't want to get into trouble so they just don't do it when you are around.

We are not talking about outliers here. We are talking about something that happens to many women every day of their lives in public. Nor are we talking about mere catcalling. We are talking about aggressive bullying, verbal abuse and intimidation. Harassment. Read my first post in the thread for an example. Again, you don't see it, but it happens all the time and ignoring it won't make it go away.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Offlinekakashi68
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: Shortknight] * 2
    #21860637 - 06/26/15 03:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Men are harassed as much as women. just in different ways. Men are direct and throw direct insults. Women are silly and get upset over little things. There was an experiment done where women did this to men such as saying "id love to wreck your dick" every man enjoyed it because there not weak emotionally unstable uptight females.

Women however are indirect and hurt people in a much more horrible way. Every woman ever will talk shit about people when your not in the room. They will also spread rumors and hate about you if they want to. They to chicken shit to do it to your face so they have to be cowards.

Its hard to get on board with feminism when its about making women superior rather than equals. Or even respecting that fact that men and women are different and should be treated as equals but rather proportionately at the right time.


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You know, just sometimes in between the first cigarette with coffee in the morning to that 400th glass of cornershop piss at 3am--you do sometimes look at yourself and think--this is fantastic. I'm in heaven.
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InvisibleMikeBearPig
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Re: Feminism, why?????? [Re: kakashi68]
    #21860667 - 06/26/15 03:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kakashi68 said:
Men are harassed as much as women. just in different ways. Men are direct and throw direct insults. Women are silly and get upset over little things. There was an experiment done where women did this to men such as saying "id love to wreck your dick" every man enjoyed it because there not weak emotionally unstable uptight females.

Women however are indirect and hurt people in a much more horrible way. Every woman ever will talk shit about people when your not in the room. They will also spread rumors and hate about you if they want to. They to chicken shit to do it to your face so they have to be cowards.

Its hard to get on board with feminism when its about making women superior rather than equals. Or even respecting that fact that men and women are different and should be treated as equals but rather proportionately at the right time.





I saw the video..

It looks like you have some sort of biased view towards females..

Men do the same thing as women.. Assuming only a women will spread a rumor is not right, neither is calling all of them chickenshits afraid to say something to your face. 

It's been the exact opposite for me, most of my female friends won't bat an eye over a comment about their ass.. But say something they actually find offensive and wrong.. They will be sure to tell you everything to your face.

You are again thinking of our view on women as being women, when reality is that it is societies impact on their behavior.  Some are led astray, and this is true for both genders.  Neither is a good example of what a man or women is supposed to be.

Women are not born evil conspiring whispering devils that only want to ruin your life.. They are made.


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