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OfflineSpecialEd
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Logic prevailing over religion
    #2201474 - 12/26/03 01:42 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not familiar with any of these religions, so please tell me if my premises' are faulty...


:syringe:premise 1.  Judaeists, Christians, and Muslims all practice a religion that is monotheist.

:syringe:premise 2.  The followers of the three religions do not worship the same God. 

:syringe:premise 3.  Each religon has teachings similar to the Christian "Thou shalt have no Gods before me," meaning their religion is the true one, and any other religon is an abomination.

:pill2:conclusion.  One can conclude then that one of the above religions is possibly correct while the remaining two are farces.  One cannot deduce which is the true religion and since two of the above religions have proven to be false, it is reasonable to conclude that all three are suspect to being fabricated and therefore hold no truth.

According to Special Ed, all three religions have been debunked.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2201562 - 12/26/03 02:56 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Eh... been here before... just wait for the logic-haters... they'll be posting soon enough...

BTW, I admit that logic isn't everything... but it's a great tool.

----------Sclorch Out-----------


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineShizpow
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Registered: 03/06/03
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Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2201689 - 12/26/03 05:44 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

besides...the Jews, Christians and Muslims do all worship the same god.


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If you cut a face lengthwise, urinate on it, and trample on it with straw sandles, it is said that the skin will come off. This was heard by the priest Gyojaku when he was in Kyoto. It is information to be treasured.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2201706 - 12/26/03 06:19 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

"According to Special Ed, all three religions have been debunked."

Excellent - you're a bit more free now


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Anonymous

Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2201758 - 12/26/03 08:19 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Interesting. There are major philosophers that have had the same idea as your premises.

But your conclusion confuses me.

One cannot deduce which is the true religion

Why not? How does that follow?

and since two of the above religions have proven to be false,

This is contingent upon one being true. Couldn't it be that none are true?

it is reasonable to conclude that all three are suspect to being fabricated and therefore hold no truth.

Please elaborate.

According to Special Ed, all three religions have been debunked.

Please elaborate.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: ]
    #2202005 - 12/26/03 12:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Is it possible that all three religions actually worship the same God, no matter what they call Him? This is something I've been thinking about.

Supposedly Jesus disappeared for a number of years. Maybe he was preaching in different countries. Maybe they called Him different things than what the Christians call Him. It IS interesting that the teachings of all the religions are the same.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2202123 - 12/26/03 02:01 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

yes it is deifinately reasonable.  heh go further...say that nobody can say 100% for sure what IS and what ISN'T.  nobody KNOWS about the answers regarding the afterlife and god.

now I'm pretty sure that muslims don't think christians will go hell to at all actually. they believed that jesus did exists and that he was a prophet. like that the heart is in the "right place" is all that matters.  don't quote me on that, but my brother is one, and he talks about is constantly too btw :lol:.  so in that respect, to the muslims it isn't even about who's right or who's wrong.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


Edited by kaiowas (12/26/03 02:04 PM)


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: ]
    #2202211 - 12/26/03 03:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Interesting. There are major philosophers that have had the same idea as your premises.




I am not well versed in philosophy, but I am currently educating myself (okay, so I'm reading philosophy for dummies to get an overview on a wide variety of topics). Could you provide links for philosophers with similar ideas?

Quote:

One cannot deduce which is the true religion

Why not? How does that follow?




My contention is that at face value, all three are equally implausible. You could specialize in one religion, and make it your life's work demonstrating its superiority and validity over the other two, but it would not bring about consensus, because you are expressing personal beliefs that have not been properly justified.

Quote:

and since two of the above religions have proven to be false,

This is contingent upon one being true. Couldn't it be that none are true?




That is very well possible. I was expresssing the maximum truth, which is optimistically saying that one could be true.

Quote:

it is reasonable to conclude that all three are suspect to being fabricated and therefore hold no truth.

Please elaborate.





If you put the three religions in a truth table, your conclusions are that one is true and two are false, or that all three are false. Growing up as a child, I believed in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy. If, one day my parents tell me that Santa and the Tooth Fairy are not real and they lied to me, this does not demonstrate that the Easter Bunny is not real. However, I realize that I have been decieved twice, and if I accept that all three superstitions are equally implausible, I can conclude that the Easter Bunny is ficticious as well.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: Sclorch]
    #2202215 - 12/26/03 03:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Eh... been here before




It's never too late to reinvent the bicycle-System of a Down


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: Shizpow]
    #2202219 - 12/26/03 03:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

besides...the Jews, Christians and Muslims do all worship the same god.




The world would be a better place if everyone believed this.


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  /l_l\/
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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
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Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2202222 - 12/26/03 03:24 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

"The world would be a better place if everyone believed this."

that's not a belief that's a fact. they do all worship the same god. just different sides of god that's all.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,851
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 24 days, 1 hour
Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: kaiowas]
    #2202341 - 12/26/03 04:57 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
that's not a belief that's a fact. they do all worship the same god. just different sides of god that's all.




But what he means is that people don't realize this... they aren't realizing that they are believing in an idea, not some sort of actual entity somewhere, even if he is there. They are believing only in an idea, an idea that has been carried through so many heads for so long with so many different intentions.

I mean, it is an idea that has resulted from people just "knowing" it is true. How can you just come to know something as true like that? It seems to be an attempt to patch over an unknown to me.

I mean, there has come a lot of good from the belief in such an idea, and a lot of bad as well... I mean, fellowship, compassion, and a sense of peace and love can come from going to church every week. Now, is it really the belief in a God that is bringing this out in these people? Or is it the fact that these people are sharing a common theme and are interacting with each other in such a way? Is it because the assumption they are making about this unknown is true, or is because of how they are acting and the thoughts that come with produce these results?

Why can't it just be the blessing of life itself that is being worshipped? Why do some have to be so sure of themselves that what they have is the correct thing and that anyone who doesn't have their name signed right next to theirs is wrong and that they should be condemned?
Peace.


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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Anonymous

Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2202358 - 12/26/03 05:04 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I am not well versed in philosophy, but I am currently educating myself (okay, so I'm reading philosophy for dummies to get an overview on a wide variety of topics). Could you provide links for philosophers with similar ideas?

No, sorry.  I let people find that stuff on their own.  But, Philosophy for Dummies is a GREAT book!  Also, Idiot's guide to Philosophy is a GREAT one!  These easy overviews help people get a handle on philosophy in a way that few texts can.

My contention is that at face value, all three are equally implausible. You could specialize in one religion, and make it your life's work demonstrating its superiority and validity over the other two, but it would not bring about consensus, because you are expressing personal beliefs that have not been properly justified.

Your last sentence is completely correct.  But actually, of the world's religions, all three are probably the most plausible. :smile:

That is very well possible. I was expresssing the maximum truth, which is optimistically saying that one could be true.

Ahh very well then.

If you put the three religions in a truth table, your conclusions are that one is true and two are false, or that all three are false. Growing up as a child, I believed in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy. If, one day my parents tell me that Santa and the Tooth Fairy are not real and they lied to me, this does not demonstrate that the Easter Bunny is not real. However, I realize that I have been decieved twice, and if I accept that all three superstitions are equally implausible, I can conclude that the Easter Bunny is ficticious as well.

What do you mean Santa Claus isn't real?  :confused:


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: ]
    #2202407 - 12/26/03 05:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

No, sorry. I let people find that stuff on their own. But, Philosophy for Dummies is a GREAT book! Also, Idiot's guide to Philosophy is a GREAT one!

What I am looking for is an "Idiot's Guide to Finding Great Books on Philosophy"...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Logic prevailing over religion [Re: Swami]
    #2202412 - 12/26/03 05:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Why didn't you say so?

[url=Idiot's guide to finding great books on Philosophy]Idiot's guide to finding great books on Philosophy.[/url]

Let's see how gullible you really are.

And for SpecialEd and others I did post some great links in the sticky at the top of the forum. :wink:

Cheers,

MM


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