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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
The Problem with Religion
    #2276022 - 01/26/04 11:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

is that we have hundreds of millions of people on one side who are absolutely convinced they they have the Truth and we have another group of hundreds of millions of people who are also absolutely convinced that they have the Truth, and another group and another group... and they're ALL ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED THAT THEY AND THEY ALONE HAVE THE TRUTH.

could it be that they're all wrong?

what is the one true faith?


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Offlinedistortion
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2276047 - 01/26/04 11:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you find the answer to that, let me know :thumbup: lol


--------------------
Think for Yourself. Question Authority.

-Timothy Leary


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Anonymous

Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2276053 - 01/26/04 11:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

is that we have hundreds of millions of people on one side who are absolutely convinced they they have the Truth and we have another group of hundreds of millions of people who are also absolutely convinced that they have the Truth, and another group and another group... and they're ALL ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED THAT THEY AND THEY ALONE HAVE THE TRUTH.

most people have that mindset whether they are religious or not.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: ]
    #2276059 - 01/27/04 12:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

true, but religion actually encourages such a mindset


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Anonymous

Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2276071 - 01/27/04 12:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

not all of them do though... if you meet the buddha, kill him!


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2276085 - 01/27/04 12:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

infidelGOD said:
could it be that they're all wrong?



Maybe they are all partially right. Maybe a good starting point would be to find universal points of agreement, throw out everything else (at least temporarily) and try to make some sense of it.

Quote:

what is the one true faith?



Is there one true faith?

We all have our own personal windows on the universe, we see different things and we look from different perspectives, some windows are filthy, others are a stained glass with embedded bubbles that can never be made clear. What is seen by one, may not be visible to another. Does this mean that since the views don't agree that one of them is wrong?

Do you see what I'm saying?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: ]
    #2276121 - 01/27/04 12:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

good point, but I don't really consider Buddhism to be a "religion".
if it was, there wouldn't be any Buddhist Christians!

not all religions are as intolerant as Chrisitanity.. or Islam, but they all insist that they alone have the Truth and all other faiths are mistaken, or worse, works of the devil.

I think if religion is to have any relavence in the modern world, they have to let go of such insular, xenophobic tendencies, and embrace a more expansive view.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2276129 - 01/27/04 12:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Why can't they just co-exist, peacefully?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: Evolving]
    #2276170 - 01/27/04 12:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yeah I see what you're saying. I'm not saying that one view is wrong, or that they're all wrong. I think every view of God is a part of the puzzle, but not one view is flexible enough to emcompass the totality of creation. I'm just disappointed that in this day and age, religious leaders still insist that they alone are the one true faith...

because of this, for a spiritual man who seeks a more expansive view, mainstream religion is just not an option. we must look elsewhere, to the God of Spinoza, the God of Einstein, the Logos, the tao.. IT goes by many names, but mainstream religion is more interested in a personal, intervening god... to answer prayers, to tell them how to live their lives, to smite their enemies

it's the Golden Calf all over again...


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: Frog]
    #2276187 - 01/27/04 12:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know. I'm calling for change so that there can be peaceful co-existence.
I've always taken a progressive view when it comes to religion but I feel it's hopeless. how can there ever be peace when some Christians think of Muslims as the devil incarnate, and some Muslims think of us as the "Great Satan"? as long as religion exists in it's current state, there can be no lasting world peace.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2276307 - 01/27/04 01:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But that's what I mean!

There can't be peace as long as any religion views another with hostility.

I think evolving got it right: Let's throw everything out, and figure out, first, where we all agree. Then, let's slowly build on that. Keep the parts that match, throw out the parts that don't.

There's just too many differences.

See, I don't mind that there are people that don't believe the way I do, that you have to accept Jesus as your saviour to go to heaven. For instance, I accept that the Jews think that Jesus was just a prophet. But I will be laughed at or scoffed at for believing the way I do.

As long as there are people with egos, there will be scoffers. If people didn't let their egos get in the way, everyone could accept each other's different beliefs without feeling threatened.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinelateralus
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: Frog]
    #2276439 - 01/27/04 03:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
I think evolving got it right: Let's throw everything out, and figure out, first, where we all agree. Then, let's slowly build on that. Keep the parts that match, throw out the parts that don't.




A new religion is born and eventually politicians or power-hungry people would get ahold of it and a new ideology rife with dogmas would be born...


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: lateralus]
    #2276456 - 01/27/04 03:09 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well, yes, that would be true. Of course.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Edited by Frog (01/27/04 03:19 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2276926 - 01/27/04 09:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: ]
    #2277317 - 01/27/04 12:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

However, if that section of the canon, or text, is merely allegorical, it escapes empirical investigation on that count.

And how does one separate the allegorical from the factual? Jesus taught in parables which were clearly allegorical, but the stories / myths about him and much of his alleged words are not spoken in parable yet certainly seem allegorical to this reader.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblebuttonion
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Registered: 04/04/02
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2277504 - 01/27/04 01:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I agree. Further, ultimately the problem with religion and any other belief system (political, scientific) that proclaims to be THE WAY is the underlying belief that THE WAY exists. The belief that there is some objectively real way. The belief that there is something really out there, some kind of substantive, ultimate way/thing with which we must align our beliefs. Its not just the belief that we can actually understand it that?s flawed- its the belief that it is there! It?s a delusion-

?and good god, holy crap this idea is hard to convey using dualistic language!!!


--------------------
Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2277683 - 01/27/04 03:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

All roads lead to Rome.....

But are you walking towards Rome or away from it?
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2277757 - 01/27/04 03:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think the best "religion" would be one where we admit we have no fucking clue what's going on, but that the insense sure smells nice.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: Strumpling]
    #2278107 - 01/27/04 05:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You left out the virgin maidens in gossamer dresses with flowers in their hair...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: The Problem with Religion [Re: Swami]
    #2278114 - 01/27/04 05:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You got me thinkin'... Can I be the leader of this cult?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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