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Anonymous

Universal Truth
    #2150795 - 12/01/03 11:57 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

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OfflineGrandmastafunk
Bo Bob
Registered: 12/01/03
Posts: 7
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Universal Truth [Re: ]
    #2150830 - 12/02/03 12:07 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I think this is all true.

"Since the acquired desire for knowledge is a right desire, because it consists in wanting what everyone needs, the prescription "You ought to want to seek knowledge" is universally and objectively true-true for all human beings-because it conforms to a right desire that is rooted in a natural need."

But i also think that this belife is the root of all negative acts against one another be it human or non.




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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Universal Truth [Re: ]
    #2150841 - 12/02/03 12:10 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

In certain drug-induced states, I know nothing.

And I like it!


Seriously, we are always perceiving. Through sensations we are always,on some level, acquiring knowledge.Knowledge through awareness. That is how perceptions are formed.


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Edited by sirreal (12/02/03 12:36 AM)


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OfflineGrandmastafunk
Bo Bob
Registered: 12/01/03
Posts: 7
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Universal Truth [Re: sirreal]
    #2150875 - 12/02/03 12:20 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Thats because the mind never can stop. If it did it would go away and you would die. But if you could block out the body and all sensations you could be one with the universe, because your mind can never be static because it is energy and engery can never go away: if the mind was static then it would not be a mind. This can only be done at death because the body can no longer stimulate the mind so the mind leaves and moves on.

"When a mind becomes static it is no longer a mind"


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
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Re: Universal Truth [Re: Grandmastafunk]
    #2150930 - 12/02/03 12:34 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Grandmastafunk said:
This can only be done at death because the body can no longer stimulate the mind so the mind leaves and moves on.





I don't quite understand this. How can the mind "move on" if it becomes static?

Are you saying that the energy dissipates and loses organised consciousness?


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Universal Truth [Re: ]
    #2150960 - 12/02/03 12:42 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Just sounds like some funky semantics. It seems like you are just saying that ought = need. And that we need air, food and water. Then you clump knowledge in there, coming out with the statement that we ought to seek knowledge. I would say, no, we don't need to seek knowledge to survive on a primal level as animals. Maybe I'm just missing out on what you're trying to say, because its not very clear. You ought to want to "kill and dominate others because it is right by nature"? You can use the formula for anything instinctual, right?


--------------------
Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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OfflineGrandmastafunk
Bo Bob
Registered: 12/01/03
Posts: 7
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Universal Truth [Re: sirreal]
    #2150963 - 12/02/03 12:42 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

You know how energy never gets destroyed it just changes form or moves on. The same thing applies to the mind. When it becomes static from the lack of stimultaion then it can move on to some other form of energy. Your mind is a result of energy occuping your brain. When the brain or body dies the mind doesnt just stop it moves on..



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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
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Re: Universal Truth [Re: bert]
    #2150973 - 12/02/03 12:45 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

bert said:
Just sounds like some funky semantics. It seems like you are just saying that ought = need. And that we need air, food and water. Then you clump knowledge in there, coming out with the statement that we ought to seek knowledge. I would say, no, we don't need to seek knowledge to survive on a primal level as animals. Maybe I'm just missing out on what you're trying to say, because its not very clear. You ought to want to "kill and dominate others because it is right by nature"? You can use the formula for anything instinctual, right?





As biological life forms that must survive in a hostile world, gathering information is just as important as the air we breathe.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Universal Truth [Re: Grandmastafunk]
    #2150988 - 12/02/03 12:49 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Grandmastafunk said:
You know how energy never gets destroyed it just changes form or moves on. The same thing applies to the mind. When it becomes static from the lack of stimultaion then it can move on to some other form of energy. Your mind is a result of energy occuping your brain. When the brain or body dies the mind doesnt just stop it moves on..







I know.

I was just wondering what you thought it changed into. Does it just dissolve, or retain some of its identity?



--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Universal Truth [Re: sirreal]
    #2150990 - 12/02/03 12:49 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Yes, I guess that is true. Does that mean that 'oughts' can be applied to anything that we, as organisms, do naturally? For instance killing.


--------------------
Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Universal Truth [Re: bert]
    #2150999 - 12/02/03 12:54 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

bert said:
Yes, I guess that is true. Does that mean that 'oughts' can be applied to anything that we, as organisms, do naturally? For instance killing.





Anything that is essential for our survival would be considered an "ought" I suppose. Is killing essential for our survival? Could we survive without killing?

Killing could be considered an "ought not".


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineGrandmastafunk
Bo Bob
Registered: 12/01/03
Posts: 7
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Universal Truth [Re: bert]
    #2151009 - 12/02/03 12:57 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I dont think that the energy retains any memory. The energy could be recycled it may turn into a match or the eletricity used to power your comp just where ever energy is. The water in a bottle is as old as the earth and older if you wanna go there. As many times as it has been changed and moved around it is still remains water.. Think of a Ice scuplture. When it is just made it serves a purpose which is to be visualy pleasing when it melts the ice sculpture is gone but the water remains.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Universal Truth [Re: ]
    #2151035 - 12/02/03 01:01 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

can something that arises out of human instinct accurately be called a "universal truth"? I accept that instinct can be an objective basis for "truth", but I wouldn't call it "universal".

besides that I agree with what you said.



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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Universal Truth [Re: ]
    #2151039 - 12/02/03 01:02 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

There is universal truth, but it is beyond the capacity of human language to describe it. Good and bad are like beauty, in the sense that even though it is hard to define exactly, and people's interpretation of it may vary somewhat, there is a definite, albeit indefinable and mysterious quality which makes something good or bad.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
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Re: Universal Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2151056 - 12/02/03 01:09 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
There is universal truth, but it is beyond the capacity of human language to describe it. Good and bad are like beauty, in the sense that even though it is hard to define exactly, and people's interpretation of it may vary somewhat, there is a definite, albeit indefinable and mysterious quality which makes something good or bad.





What do you mean?

Are you saying that everything has an inherent "goodness" or "badness" to it? Is that the "universal truth" you are referring to?


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Universal Truth [Re: silversoul7]
    #2151057 - 12/02/03 01:09 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
There is universal truth, but it is beyond the capacity of human language to describe it. Good and bad are like beauty, in the sense that even though it is hard to define exactly, and people's interpretation of it may vary somewhat, there is a definite, albeit indefinable and mysterious quality which makes something good or bad.





What do you mean?

Are you saying that everything has an inherent "goodness" or "badness" to it? Is that the "universal truth" you are referring to?


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemedicinebag
Hunting

Registered: 11/15/03
Posts: 344
Loc: The land of The People
Re: Universal Truth [Re: sirreal]
    #2151062 - 12/02/03 01:11 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

How do you plan to survive with out killing?? eat only Non-fertilized eggs and drink milk????


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Universal Truth [Re: medicinebag]
    #2151075 - 12/02/03 01:16 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

medicinebag said:
How do you plan to survive with out killing?? eat only Non-fertilized eggs and drink milk????





I never said that I had no plans to kill! I love meat.

But, yes, I think you could survive without killing. Unless you think a tomatoe is alive. Also, one could survive on eggs and milk.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Universal Truth [Re: sirreal]
    #2151087 - 12/02/03 01:22 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

yeah I think most people would agree that a tomato is a living thing. we have to kill plants or animals in order to survive, just like we need knowledge to survive, so does that become a universal truth as well? that we ought to kill living things? because it applies to all human beings and is rooted in a natural need?


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Anonymous

Re: Universal Truth [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2151598 - 12/02/03 12:44 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

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