Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale, Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: Icelander]
    #3969203 - 03/25/05 02:44 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

We have invented morality for a purpuse. So why should we not follow it?

It's like saying that you don't have to follow street signs because they are relative and invented in human head. they are practival, and so is morality.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Morality is not a street sign. With that logic you could say drugs are illeagal, therefore you should not ever use them.

Morality is usually based on fear, and it's a tool to control people. You should know that.




Drugs are not immoral in every morality


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: fearfect]
    #3969207 - 03/25/05 02:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Thigs are good or bad if we say they are good or bad. A certain wavelenght of light is red if we say it is red, and it is a warm color if we feel warmer by looking at it.
It is pointless to go around saying: hey people, you have been programed, red is not red, it is just a certain wavelenght of light.
A lot of people are aware of the relativity of things outside human minds, but we are not living outside our minds, but in our minds.

We have invented morality for a purpuse. So why should we not follow it?

It's like saying that you don't have to follow street signs because they are relative and invented in human head. they are practival, and so is morality.

No matter how fabricated and fake morality is, the society still has the right to defend itself from those who hurt it. We can put people in jail to protect ourselfs.
Nobody is willing to stand there and be killed just because killing is not right or wrong.




i don't think that analogy works. we label the color red and assign it to a certain wavelength of light. That wavelength of light is very real and can be determined to be in the "red" category. My argument is that the thing which we label as good or bad, is not real. 'good' and 'bad' are just words; labels, that we are assigning to some concept. my argument is that the concept which we are assigning them to is fabricated.




Red is real, yes, and so is the emotional and mental stimulation we feel when someone gets killed. Morality is based on avoiding unpleasant feelings.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3969219 - 03/25/05 02:51 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

then why is it immoral to shoot up heroin

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: fearfect]
    #3969304 - 03/25/05 03:17 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

It is unhealthy, not immoral


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3969835 - 03/25/05 05:55 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:

We have invented morality for a purpose. So why should we not follow it?

It's like saying that you don't have to follow street signs because they are relative and invented in human head. they are practical, and so is morality.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Morality is not a street sign. With that logic you could say drugs are illegal, therefore you should not ever use them.

Morality is usually based on fear, and it's a tool to control people. You should know that.




Drugs are not immoral in every morality




That's right! and you're idea of morality is not my idea of morality.
In fact some of what you think is morality I perceive as immoral. It's pretty subjective. Somebody decided something was immoral for everybody and then the war started.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: Icelander]
    #3969949 - 03/25/05 06:31 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, but if you clearly define morality, it imposes its "own" rules.
Those rules depend on the definition.
If we define that moral means that which does not damage other human beings, then we can all sit around a table and discuss what is and what is not moral.

I like to think of "true" morality as a way of life set by a single concept, rather than morality that is set by a number or rules.

If your morality is for example "do not do to others what you don't want to be done to you", then you don't need rules anymore, just you have to compute every situation judging by a single concept.

If morality is a set of rules, then it is very relative and changable, if it is a single concept, it can become general


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Edited by OldWoodSpecter (03/25/05 06:33 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3969981 - 03/25/05 06:47 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

OK I'll agree to that. Let's get clear about do unto others though. That may not work for some people who are unhealthy in there desires.

Do no harm to others is a better morality. Yet we need to define that also. Someone might say that you not believing in Jesus hurts me, or thinking it's ok to do illegal drugs. To have a moral code that benefits one and all you must have an aware, evolved,spiritual life IMO.

Doing no harm in my code is not harming someone physically or emotionally. Now I say emotionally only in respect to children who's intellectual emotional awareness is not developed. An adult should know no one can hurt you with words.

I'm cautious about people defining moral for others. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3970000 - 03/25/05 06:54 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

fearfect said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Thigs are good or bad if we say they are good or bad. A certain wavelenght of light is red if we say it is red, and it is a warm color if we feel warmer by looking at it.
It is pointless to go around saying: hey people, you have been programed, red is not red, it is just a certain wavelenght of light.
A lot of people are aware of the relativity of things outside human minds, but we are not living outside our minds, but in our minds.

We have invented morality for a purpuse. So why should we not follow it?

It's like saying that you don't have to follow street signs because they are relative and invented in human head. they are practival, and so is morality.

No matter how fabricated and fake morality is, the society still has the right to defend itself from those who hurt it. We can put people in jail to protect ourselfs.
Nobody is willing to stand there and be killed just because killing is not right or wrong.




i don't think that analogy works. we label the color red and assign it to a certain wavelength of light. That wavelength of light is very real and can be determined to be in the "red" category. My argument is that the thing which we label as good or bad, is not real. 'good' and 'bad' are just words; labels, that we are assigning to some concept. my argument is that the concept which we are assigning them to is fabricated.




Red is real, yes, and so is the emotional and mental stimulation we feel when someone gets killed. Morality is based on avoiding unpleasant feelings.




i am arguing that this so called emotional and mental stimulation that people supposedly feel when someone dies is relative to the individual, and that you can't label it and set it as a rule for everyone. The color red is not relative to the individual, it is determined by the wavelength of the particular electromagnetic wave and you can deterministically define a certain wavelength as red. Morality, and good and bad are completely relative to the individual and there does not exist a universal moral code. Therefore if i realize this, I can undo the barriers that other people's moral codes have put on me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: Icelander]
    #3970010 - 03/25/05 06:57 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Well that is the main reason why I think morality must be based on only one concept and not on rules.

A rule would tell you "dont do drugs!!! final" ,
but a concept would tell you "do not harm" and everything is open to debate, you can debade what is harming and what is not. That way you don't have fixed rules that prevent progress. Instead you rethink everything and judge by your original concept. That way everything is "case sensitive" and can weighted and decided on the go.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: fearfect]
    #3970026 - 03/25/05 07:03 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
i am arguing that this so called emotional and mental stimulation that people supposedly feel when someone dies is relative to the individual, and that you can't label it and set it as a rule for everyone. The color red is not relative to the individual, it is determined by the wavelength of the particular electromagnetic wave and you can deterministically define a certain wavelength as red. Morality, and good and bad are completely relative to the individual and there does not exist a universal moral code. Therefore if i realize this, I can undo the barriers that other people's moral codes have put on me.




If an individual does not have anything against its own death, than it isn't immoral to kill him. Like I said in the previous post, everything is case sensitive. Morality must be flexible and must depend on variables. That's why I can't be set by rules but by ideas.
Ideas are the film negatives, out of these negatives you can make darker or lighter prints, yellow prints or blue prints, as long as they show the image that is on the negative.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3970037 - 03/25/05 07:08 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

~Satanism: Bullshit doctrine founded by rebels to support their own morality or the lack their of... Just another typical counter culture with no intended purpose beyond defiance.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3970047 - 03/25/05 07:13 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I do not wish to generalize, but there are some really crazy people among sotonists. The local police has had problems with a local group of sotonists that were trying to open graves, and steal "stuff" and sick things like that.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3970050 - 03/25/05 07:15 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

But why do you need to have morals? From your explanation it seems as though you agree that we are the ones that create the moral code. Why do you choose "Do not harm" as a basis for a moral code? Why not "Kill anything that gets in your way." or "Do whatever you want". I'm just trying to say that whatever you decide as a moral system is not going to synch up with someone else's views, and that morality is just a way to try to maintain some order.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: fearfect]
    #3970070 - 03/25/05 07:25 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Things like "do not harm" come from development as a sentient entity.
It is just a result of higher psychological awareness. It's evolution.

"kill everything in your way" kind of thinking is flawed, it is partial, illogical, blind. It only sees one side of things. It throws away variables from the equation. It considers only self. It is a form of atavism, like hair on your face.
Taking other perspectives than your own is one thing that huamns have that animals don't. It is a product of evolution.

Just like computers get more and more interconnected with internet, the evolution of nervous system connects brains more and more.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3970176 - 03/25/05 08:08 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
I do not wish to generalize, but there are some really crazy people among sotonists. The local police has had problems with a local group of sotonists that were trying to open graves, and steal "stuff" and sick things like that.




The problem is anyone can call themselves a Satanist, just like anyone can call themselves a Christian. By their deeds you shall know them.

I know some pretty decent Satanists. They have a good moral philosophy. Many people equate Satan with the idea of the devil. The Satanists I know do not.

I prefer Chaos Magick myself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Christ on a Stick *DELETED* [Re: insectvhore]
    #3971023 - 03/25/05 11:38 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by MarkostheGnostic<p>Reason for deletion: Prefer not to respond to the poster in the manner of this post.

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (04/20/05 04:57 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3971191 - 03/26/05 12:36 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Taking other perspectives than your own is one thing that humans have that animals don't.




i think this quote is really interesting. do you think that humans are not animals?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCrestfallen
some kindasomethin'

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 324
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: fearfect]
    #3971331 - 03/26/05 01:25 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

MarktheGnostic- nice post. That windowpane was wonderful stuff eh?

On satanism, I have always thought that people should be allowed to do their own thing, believe what they want, as long as their intentions aren't malicious, wtf do I care? But I also think from personal experience with people who were self-proclaimed "satanists" that they were just people looking to be different and deep in some mysterious way, and most of the time it was accompanied by excessive teenage angst. But this is nothing that some serious soul-searching wouldn't stamp out.


--------------------
The above statement is completely fictional and composed solely for the purpose of entertainment.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDelusion_of_Self
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 230
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: fearfect]
    #3971532 - 03/26/05 04:58 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
But why do you need to have morals? From your explanation it seems as though you agree that we are the ones that create the moral code. Why do you choose "Do not harm" as a basis for a moral code? Why not "Kill anything that gets in your way." or "Do whatever you want". I'm just trying to say that whatever you decide as a moral system is not going to synch up with someone else's views, and that morality is just a way to try to maintain some order.




It doesn't matter what beliefs you live by, it does not matter if you care to believe or if you don't...ignoring that we are all part of one and the same and it's implications will eventually lead to being a victim of your own recklessness.

Just as you believe to be the victim of others, others are a victim of you. Nothing is casual, everything is causal. We are one and the same.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Christ Sticks to the TRUTH..... [Re: fearfect]
    #3972069 - 03/26/05 10:47 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Taking other perspectives than your own is one thing that humans have that animals don't.




i think this quote is really interesting. do you think that humans are not animals?




Well we are made out of animal cells, not fungus nor plant cells, but animal cells, so we are animals, but animals V2.0
Animals v1.0 don't have a lot of things we do, they can not think about anything but their own biological needs. They can't ignore them, or rethink them, they can't change perspectives, they can't think from "outside" because they don't recognize their own consciousness.
Our bilogy is animalistic, but we like to separate outselfs because of our consciousness.
When we say "human" we usually think about our sentient mind, not our body, it seems our consciousness is somehow a lifeform on its own even if it is a product of our biological brain.

Life on earth is a big theater scene and all the lifeforms do their parts. But only humans can stop and think about their role outside the role. Only humans can be aware that they are actors.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale, Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* What is the truth behind Disney? tekramrepus 2,381 18 06/20/03 06:58 AM
by champ
* The Truth About Christmas
( 1 2 all )
chodamunky 5,665 24 12/26/19 07:19 AM
by Metaphysician
* Dass, LSD, Omniscience, Truth, Experience
( 1 2 all )
World Spirit 4,356 34 07/18/03 08:26 AM
by MarkostheGnostic
* The Second Coming of Christ!!
( 1 2 3 all )
johnnyfive 5,148 40 01/29/03 09:14 AM
by johnnyfive
* The true followers of Jesus Christ were not Christian.
( 1 2 3 4 all )
tekramrepus 6,439 70 11/10/03 02:46 PM
by Funguy
* Christ died for our sins?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 11 12 all )
silversoul7 15,610 231 10/06/03 07:25 AM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Jesus - Christ by Pre-Existence or by Adoption?
( 1 2 all )
MarkostheGnostic 2,359 24 07/27/04 07:26 PM
by shroomydan
* Christ will be returning soon. tekramrepus 1,732 12 01/09/04 11:42 AM
by tekramrepus

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
7,020 topic views. 2 members, 11 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 15 queries.