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OfflineRenegade8
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Registered: 10/11/03
Posts: 386
Loc: Orange County
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Stephen King's Dark Tower series & 2012 prophecies
    #2086136 - 11/09/03 09:33 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Have any of you guys read these books?

I was enthralled by 'em from the moment I saw the cover of the first one, but I hadn't learned about all the 2012 stuff at the time. The latest volume just came out & I'm blown away by the similarities between those books and what is happening right now.

There's 5 books and they started 15 years ago, so I probably can't remember enough to summarize the whole thing, but it's set in a time in the future when "the world has moved on" and most of humanity is gone. Those who are left are the ones who were disgusted with society before whatever apocalypse happened.

There's all kinds of instances of synchronicity, signs, warps between times and dimensions, etc. Also, there's themes of compassion, rebellion, morality, and evolving toward higher consciousness.

I'm sure I could think of more stuff, but I feel like a damn groupie gushing about some author's books. If anyone's a King fan & hasn't read this series, I definitely recommend it, especially after the Harmonic Concordance/lunar eclipse we just had.


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I'm just see-through faded, super jaded, and out of my mind. - R.I.P. Layne


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Registered: 05/21/02
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Re: Stephen King's Dark Tower series & 2012 prophecies [Re: Renegade8]
    #2086216 - 11/09/03 11:23 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I havent read any of those books, but the Mayans might have hit the nail on the head nonetheless. Various models of oil depletion forecast a catastrophic oil shortage at different dates with a midpoint at the infamous 2012 end date. That date too is a midpoint for a cataclysm and not a definite date.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
Re: Stephen King's Dark Tower series & 2012 prophecies [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2086297 - 11/09/03 12:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

-In short, the end of oil signals the end of civilization, as we know it.-

Why would this equal the end of civilization? Even though there is plenty of oil for long after 2012, let us just say that we do in fact run out soon. Why would this end civilization? We existed without oil for 8900 years since the advent of agriculture, and we managed to survive.

This whole argument is based on too many presumptions, if there is barely any oil left, why would we start setting off nuclear weapons just to live with oil for a little while longer and put off suffering for a decade or two? Sure maybe we might invade the Middle East if we cannot secure relations with them, which it looks like we have already done successfully, but THERE ARE other resources that can power automobiles and air craft. They are not as powerfully or well developed yet, but in wake of a crisis, with our technological advances, and many peoples suspicion that we do in fact already have other energy sources lined up, we would probably make it through without ending all of humanity.

In another post, you said that people would follow any leader that promised them oil. I do no think this is true. Many people, dumb as we are, understand the repercussions of setting off nuclear weapons, so I do not think the masses would ever encourage it overtly, but as I said before, covertly, we are already securing our energy resources in the Middle East with popular support.

I see two chances that this scenario does signal the end.

One is if some rogue nation such as North Korea or Iran is starved for energy resources, and starts a war or threatens a superpower.

Another case could be that the China, which is rapidly developing, starts to consume more fossil fuels, and battles the United States over the Middle Eastern reserves, or takes the side of Middle Eastern countries to secure oil, in which the United States would be forced to do battle with China and the Arab world. This makes sense to me because Bible prophecy does say that the third world war would involve an army of millions, and China is the only country large enough to provide for that scenario. In addition, if we were fighting over oil reserves in the Middle East, we would have to use ground troops, which might force a draft in the United States.

I also wonder how the European Union, which strangely, is trying to build its own large army, would fit into this scenario? I am not so sure they would take our side, and if that were the case, oh gosh, the world would change.

Again, this is all dependent on your theory that geologists and industrialist are blindly lying about oil reserves, and have been for the past 20 years. The government did start going with high estimates in the late seventies instead of the low, but aside from that change, I do not know of any cut and dry facts supporting that both fields are lying.





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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Stephen King's Dark Tower series & 2012 prophecies [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2086339 - 11/09/03 12:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I was always intrested in 2012 and at times even became a skeptic, but after doing so much reading and finding all the connections to that one date it is just too much to be coincidential. I think i mentioned this before but even NASA is trying to get to MARS before 2012, its their specific due date.

http://mars2012.berkeley.edu/

Check it out.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Stephen King's Dark Tower series & 2012 prophecies [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2086441 - 11/09/03 01:53 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

-In short, the end of oil signals the end of civilization, as we know it.-

Why would this equal the end of civilization? Even though there is plenty of oil for long after 2012, let us just say that we do in fact run out soon. Why would this end civilization? We existed without oil for 8900 years since the advent of agriculture, and we managed to survive.




There are 2 problems with this counter-argument: A) We lived 17000 years without agriculture up until that point, but can we live without agriculture now?? Its the same thing with oil. B) It is true that all the oil thats left in the ground will last much longer than 2012 -- if we could extract it at the present net energy gain. However, the net energy gain per barrel declines as that reserve drains. A "catastrophic energy crisis" occurrs when the energy equivalent of one barrel of oil is required to extract one barrel of oil; and we are very near that point. Even if that were not the case, we would still run into the same wall anyway, albeit further down the road.

Quote:

This whole argument is based on too many presumptions, if there is barely any oil left, why would we start setting off nuclear weapons just to live with oil for a little while longer and put off suffering for a decade or two? Sure maybe we might invade the Middle East if we cannot secure relations with them, which it looks like we have already done successfully, but THERE ARE other resources that can power automobiles and air craft. They are not as powerfully or well developed yet, but in wake of a crisis, with our technological advances, and many peoples suspicion that we do in fact already have other energy sources lined up, we would probably make it through without ending all of humanity.

In another post, you said that people would follow any leader that promised them oil. I do no think this is true. Many people, dumb as we are, understand the repercussions of setting off nuclear weapons, so I do not think the masses would ever encourage it overtly, but as I said before, covertly, we are already securing our energy resources in the Middle East with popular support.




Your not taking into account the human elements involved, nor the impossible logistics of binning so many vehicles and recycling them into new ones that run on other fuels (and that would prolly require more oil ("startup capital") than is availible too). I think i also said in the earlier post that it would be like trying to stop an express train on a dime.

While most ppl do understand the consequences of firing nukes, that will not necessarily prevent them from doing so -- especially if they are starving and dying. There has been no opposition to Bush's first-use policy; and most Americans tacitly support his invasion of Iraq with the understanding that this is all about oil. And there is nothing covert about it. The junta cant come out and say that thats why their doing it because that would incur defensive action from the Russians, Chinese, and EU.

Quote:

Another case could be that the China, which is rapidly developing, starts to consume more fossil fuels, and battles the United States over the Middle Eastern reserves, or takes the side of Middle Eastern countries to secure oil, in which the United States would be forced to do battle with China and the Arab world. This makes sense to me because Bible prophecy does say that the third world war would involve an army of millions, and China is the only country large enough to provide for that scenario. In addition, if we were fighting over oil reserves in the Middle East, we would have to use ground troops, which might force a draft in the United States.




There will definitely be a spike in demand as countries such as China develop more rapidly. I believe that this has been factored in to the projections. Personally i dont think there will be compulsory military service, but that an employment crunch adjutant to an oil crisis will force ppl into volunteer in the military as a source of income.

Quote:

I also wonder how the European Union, which strangely, is trying to build its own large army, would fit into this scenario? I am not so sure they would take our side, and if that were the case, oh gosh, the world would change.




Thats why the EU trying to re-arm..My own theory is that the EU will form an alliance with Russia and Eastern Europe gets fucked again. Dont forget how the junta dismissed the EU before the war started...We have already made an enemy.

Quote:

Again, this is all dependent on your theory that geologists and industrialist are blindly lying about oil reserves, and have been for the past 20 years. The government did start going with high estimates in the late seventies instead of the low, but aside from that change, I do not know of any cut and dry facts supporting that both fields are lying.




I never said that. Please stop putting words into my mouth. I might be mistaken, but my impression was that the geologists were forecasting a catastrophe while the industrialists were telling us otherwise. Please clarify.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleTrueBrode
Stranger

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
Re: Stephen King's Dark Tower series & 2012 prophecies [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2086972 - 11/09/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Unlike agriculture, which is adapted to our mass, sedentary society, oil is not essential to our livelihood, whereas farming has become the basis of our sustenance. I could live without oil, I cannot live without the food we cultivate, and I could even cultivate my own food anyway.

I never said that it would be an easy transition, in my first post to you in an earlier thread I said there would be a depression and hard times, but I think that the government would declare martial law to quell the situation and then work from there. Until it actually happens it is hard to predict exactly how it will go down, but the absence of oil does not mean that we will turn into savages hell bent on getting whatever oil is left while ignoring the opportunities to change the course of energy usage.

The AVERAGE PERSON that supports the war does not support it knowing that it is partly to secure energy resources. In their blindness from 911 propaganda, they really believe that it was mostly all due to WMDs, and to save the Iraqi people. And you should be aware that we did not only go into Iraq to secure oil resources, but also to expand our market through the distribution of mass produced goods and franchise markets, to gain another strategic military position, and to knock out another piece of the Muslim world on the road toward a socialist/NWO one world government.

It does not matter if it even comes to a point where people are starving and dying, rallying sentiments to support an attack (in this case nuclear) will always work off the same principle- it depends on how good a lie (case) a leader can sell his/her people. The powerful have to fool the people into supporting them, so I will not rule out that possibility that the masses will concur with a nuclear attack, because I have to wait and see what lies the government tries to sell. I am thinking hopefully, by this point, the masses will realize the bullshit fed to them on a daily basis and start to awaken, and say we have had enough we just want to live peaceful and simple. Maybe that is too optimistic. Again, until the situation unfolds we can only speculate, the masses are fickle when they are not happy.

The EU, China, and Russia cannot afford, nor have any ambitions to forcefully question our actions in Iraq at this point. A) the system is still running fairly smooth to change world politics at this point and B) they are not well organized amongst themselves and their people yet to stage a cold war against the United States, and if they did, they would have millions of bloodthirsty Americans saying nuke them. The world structure is still running smoothly enough to let things ride a little longer. I am sure they are building alliances as we speak though.

Yeah, I could see military service becoming a main option of employment, but in the case that it does not, there will be a draft. You cannot take the Middle East simply by bombing it if it came down to superpowers jockeying for oil resources.

It is pretty much common knowledge that the EU is trying to build an army and source power in order to have the option of challenging the Unites States in future conflicts of interest. How successful they will be remains to be seen. Here is one (completely off the wall) scenario I was thinking could take place. We let China claim Taiwan, whereas they help us outmuscle North Korea, leading to an alliance between the United States, China, and Japan. North Korea would be buried in rebuilding, but since there will be so many other focuses and drains on revenue it would lead to hell for the people there. Then Possibly Russia gets into energy wars with China and the United States and joins with a newly united Arab world. The Arab world and Russia move into Europe, leaving Europe, which tried to stay neutral, with no choice other than to join with the United States. The Arab world, through means to existence also allies with Pakistan, whereas India allies with the US/China/Russia. A great war takes place in which nuclear devices are detonated on United States soil. The end is either the apocalypse, or the final realization of a one-world government. I know it is crazy, I am just throwing something out there.

I assumed that since you are claiming we are dangerously low on oil, then naturally you are saying the geologists and industrialists estimates are either very far off, or they are manipulated. Production wise, I do not think we will have a problem getting oil out.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Stephen King's Dark Tower series & 2012 prophecies [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2087039 - 11/09/03 08:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Unlike agriculture, which is adapted to our mass, sedentary society, oil is not essential to our livelihood, whereas farming has become the basis of our sustenance. I could live without oil, I cannot live without the food we cultivate, and I could even cultivate my own food anyway.




But can we even have modern agriculture without oil??

Quote:

I never said that it would be an easy transition, in my first post to you in an earlier thread I said there would be a depression and hard times, but I think that the government would declare martial law to quell the situation and then work from there. Until it actually happens it is hard to predict exactly how it will go down, but the absence of oil does not mean that we will turn into savages hell bent on getting whatever oil is left while ignoring the opportunities to change the course of energy usage.




The nuclear war would actually be the lesser of the two evils, since the alternative is a globalized version of Nazi Germany.







--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Stephen King's Dark Tower series & 2012 prophecies [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2087044 - 11/09/03 08:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Haha.. the world will not run out of oil in 2012. Enormous reservoirs have been discovered the last twenty years.

Numbers like 2012 is based on forecasts from the fifties and sixties, based on the belief that most oil-wells were already found. Things like deep sea drilling rigs (the worlds tallest structure is an oil platform) have vastly increased the known amount of oil in reservoirs since then.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Registered: 07/14/03
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Re: Stephen King's Dark Tower series & 2012 prophecies [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2087048 - 11/09/03 08:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

what I love is that people actually think we can take out most of the oil in the earth in the first place!!! no one even thinks to question that. do you know what would happen if the majority of oil was lost??? well just think about what we use oil for, to lubricate. now think of that on a mass scale. everything in nature has it's purpose and how foolish are we to think that we can take it away without consequences.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Stephen King's Dark Tower series & 2012 prophecies [Re: muhurgle]
    #2087062 - 11/09/03 08:35 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

muhurgle said:
Haha.. the world will not run out of oil in 2012. Enormous reservoirs have been discovered the last twenty years.

Numbers like 2012 is based on forecasts from the fifties and sixties, based on the belief that most oil-wells were already found. Things like deep sea drilling rigs (the worlds tallest structure is an oil platform) have vastly increased the known amount of oil in reservoirs since then.




Actually, 2012 was the end of the Mayan Calendar. That end date was there long before the oil age began. And now it looks like there might be something to this.


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Stephen King's Dark Tower series & 2012 prophecies [Re: kaiowas]
    #2087075 - 11/09/03 08:41 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You could use synthetic lubricants?

> everything in nature has it's purpose and how foolish are we to think that we can take it away without consequences

If oil really has a purpose, then we should use some of it? If we use some of it, we will eventually deplete the sources, no matter how fast we're using it. Or maybe you were just talking about our lifetime?


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Stephen King's Dark Tower series & 2012 prophecies [Re: muhurgle]
    #2087096 - 11/09/03 08:48 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I assumed that since you are claiming we are dangerously low on oil, then naturally you are saying the geologists and industrialists estimates are either very far off, or they are manipulated. Production wise, I do not think we will have a problem getting oil out.




The behaviour of the Bush junta is perfectly consistent with a govt trying to manage a severe shortage of a critical resource; ie seize more by force abroad and at the same time eliminate "undesireables" at home to conserve it.


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Stephen King's Dark Tower series & 2012 prophecies [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2087101 - 11/09/03 08:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I have no idea about the mayan calendar. I was just talking about oil reservoirs.

As I said, a long time ago, it was predicted that the oil would run out somewhere between 2010 and 2020 (like for example 2012). We have found very large reservoirs after those predictions, most of them at sea. Extracting oil from under the sea was unthinkable when these predictions were made.

So I don't think you can use this to support your theory about the end of the world in conjunction with the mayan calender, or whatever.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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