Phred said:

Stonehenge said:

Your argument that suspecting someone of planning to do something bad being a good enough excuse to rob and kill them, also steal their land, would mean every deranged killer was justified.

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Hardly.

The entire world knew there was no "suspecting" in 1967. It was blindingly obvious what was about to go down. The Arabs were definitely going to attack, so Israel beat them to the punch. Too bad for the Arabs.

If someone points a loaded gun at your face, clicks off the safety, puts her finger inside the trigger guard and you see her finger whitening on the trigger, you are allowed to shoot her before the bullet leaves the barrel of her pistol, honest. This concept has been repeatedly affirmed in courts of law all over the world for centuries.

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WAN said:

In fact, there are no internationally accepted rule/s for determining whether one country is about to attack another.

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WAN said:

zappaisgod said:

Stonehenge said:

>Why do neither Jordan nor Egypt, the actual entities whose land was conquered, want it back?
>They, the previous rulers of the lands in question, have ceded their claim to Israel

Facts not in evidence

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Yes they are quite in evidence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank
On July 31, 1988, Jordan ceded its claims to the West Bank
Israel has left the Gaza Strip to the monkeys.  Egypt is blockading them. 

Quote:

(phred)
>The entire world knew there was no "suspecting" in 1967. It was blindingly obvious what was about to go down

Got anything to back up that biased opinion?

>Massing divisions of military equipment and personnel right at the border pointing towards Jerusalem qualifies as a lot more than a "dirty look", as you would freely admit if this involved anyone other than those tricksy Joooooooooooooooos.

Oh, so there is an internationally accepted law that you can't move troops within your own country? They were supposed to ask the jews permission first? Might I remind you the jews had already committed many atrocities and stolen much land. The arabs were not only within their rights to try prepare to defend themselves against what was likely another land grab but would have been stupid not to do so. And as we saw, the land grab did indeed happen. With the aid of usa they succeeded and as a way of saying thank you, they attacked us too. Were we about to invade isreal? I'm waiting for the justification for that one. All zap can come up with is "lets move on" Our so called ally murdered usa servicemen and tried to sink our ship.

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Then there is the incessant bleat about the Liberty.

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you should try to address stonehenge's (very good) point of Israel attacking a US ship.

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Stonehenge said:

>It has been addressed several times over the several decades since it occurred.  It was a fuck up

Charles manson tried the "it was a fuck up" excuse too but it didn't fly. It does not fly for your favorite murderers either. A deliberate, sustained attack on a clearly identified ally is not a mistake, its a crime. Our spineless gutless politicians did not have the will to pursue it and the sheep listened to the lies spouted by your friends in the media.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

Quote:

The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats, on 8 June 1967, during the Six-Day War.[3] The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 171 crew members, and severely damaged the ship.[4] At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.[1][5]

Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[6] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity,[2] though others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[7]

In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 (US$22.5 million in 2014) as full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 in compensation to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the final U.S. bill of $17,132,709 for material damage to the Liberty herself plus 13 years' interest.[8]

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Stonehenge said:

They "paid" us a few million dollars out of the billions we give them. How nice. Here is what dean rusk had to say about it. He was secretary of state at the time

•"Accidents don't occur through repeated attacks by surface vessels and aircraft. It obviously was a decision made pretty high up on the Israeli side, because it involved combined forces. The ship was flying an American flag. My judgment was that somewhere along the line some fairly senior official gave the go ahead. I personally did not accept the Israeli explanation."
      -- US Secretary of State Dean Rusk, Recorded interview, www.ussliberty.org

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Quote:

The official position of the United States of America concerning these events, as contained in a diplomatic note[35] by Secretary of State Rusk addressed to the Israeli Ambassador is set forth, in relevant part, below:

"Washington, June 10, 1967.

The Secretary of State presents his compliments to His Excellency the Ambassador of Israel and has the honor to refer to the Ambassador's Note of June 10, 1967 concerning the attack by Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats on the United States naval vessel U.S.S. Liberty,

.  .  .

In these circumstances, the later military attack by Israeli aircraft on the U.S.S. Liberty is quite literally incomprehensible. As a minimum, the attack must be condemned as an act of military recklessness reflecting wanton disregard for human life.

The subsequent attack by Israeli torpedo boats, substantially after the vessel was or should have been identified by Israeli military forces, manifests the same reckless disregard for human life. .  .  . The U.S.S. Liberty was peacefully engaged, posed no threat whatsoever to the torpedo boats, and obviously carried no armament affording it a combat capability. It could and should have been scrutinized visually at close range before torpedoes were fired.

.  .  .  the Secretary of State wishes to make clear that the United States Government expects the Government of Israel also to take the disciplinary measures which international law requires in the event of wrongful conduct by the military personnel of a State."

There has been no statement in the last thirty-eight years by the United States government reversing or amending this formal position.

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zappaisgod said:

Please explain what you think their motivation for deliberately attacking a US Naval vessel was.  Thanks in advance

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Stonehenge said:

zappaisgod said:

Please explain what you think their motivation for deliberately attacking a US Naval vessel was.  Thanks in advance

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Tthey wanted to eliminate witnesses. They were planning to say the arabs attacked first but the liberty was a witness to the fact that was another lie. Many people to this day think the arabs did attack first. If they could have killed all on board, then they could shout "OOOPS!" and there would be no one to blow the whistle. They now have to settle for the claim that they knew what the arabs were going to do.

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You think that ship was the only witness?  Did you know that we had satellite photos then?

You are really clutching at straws

zappaisgod said:

I would guess none

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Morphtron said:

How many usa israeli duel citizens are in your government?
May have something to do with it

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Morphtron said:

zappaisgod said:

I would guess none

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A quick google says your guess is wrong

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zappaisgod said:

Morphtron said:

zappaisgod said:

I would guess none

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A quick google says your guess is wrong

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Link?

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