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OverSoul
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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: Hitman203]
#5547215 - 04/23/06 12:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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America always gets involved in issues unrelated to ourselves. We are expected to help when a nation is being "bullied". We are the strongest nation on Earth.
Besides, Iran has oil..right?
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blaze2
The Witness


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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: OverSoul]
#5554609 - 04/25/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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You guys sure seem to think you have it all figured out. THat must be nice. Heres what I see.
Isreal is only buying time to try for international agreement on teh issue, but Isreal will not hesitate to stop Iran from having a bomb even if they must do it alone(we will help them though). Iran WILL get a bomb. SO teh answer to the question isnt "why doesnt Isreal have a war with Iran" its "how long till ISreal has a war with Iran."
You people are far to confident in our beating Iran's ass. First off its the size of texas with shit hid all over the desert. THey dont know where it all is so bomb as much as they want and you can bet they will miss stuff. Secondly they are not going to be able to bomb the soldiers, because we have the whole idea that we can wage "humane" wars and just topple governments(look how that worked out in Iraq) Thirdly they cannot bomb or even know where the terrorist groups funded by Iran(they are still there waiting They havent carried out an attack in quite some time but Iran like to threaten with them, I'm inclined to believe they are just waiting for a command). These groups will launch attacks against all the western world. Our missle defense systems are pretty much worthless, and Iran has missles that will reach isreal and even parts of Europe.
But even more troubling and something you people here seem hell bent on ignoring is that Russia, and China will side with Iran push come to shove. Putin wants communism back(perfect opportunity to break ties with the west once and for all), china needs Irans oil more than anyone else in teh world. and ARab countries have finally realized they dont need to trade with the west at all. China is the fastest growing market in teh world. China dislikes the west just as much as arabs they are just more prudent about it. I think we are lookign at the build up to WWIII. now go ahead and naysay, pretend everything is peachy and fine. You only got a few more years of that mentality might as well enjoy it while you can.
"when the sleeping dragon wakes the world will quake" Napolean.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: blaze2]
#5555400 - 04/25/06 04:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Man, I'm Russian, but I fucking hate Putin and the rest of the government. Commie fucks. Same with Chinese. Commies
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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twiggedoubt
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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: downforpot]
#5555620 - 04/25/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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It would be nice to end the violence in Israel by nuking both the Palestinians and the Isralies, they would both be thrilled to not have to see each other ever again and would do anything to wipe each other out. They might not be happy with dying, but everyone needs to make sacrifices.
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RandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: twiggedoubt]
#5555649 - 04/25/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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On the one hand, I know there are innocents on both sides who should not suffer. On the other hand, the world would be better off if the Israelis and the Palestinians just disappeared.
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gluke bastid
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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: downforpot]
#5555664 - 04/25/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
downforpot said:
The Iranian Army will be wiped out even before we send in our ground troops... Our airpower will cripple the shit out of them and then massive numbers of ground troops (that we don't have) will clean up.
Damn that sounds familiar. I can't believe you're ready to swallow that crap a second time around. It was the same story with Iraq...They told us we would bomb, sweep quickly over the land, and as soon as we took Bagdhad and Saddam's army was officially conquered it would all be over. In my opinion, the true nature of the current war didn't start until there was an insurgency, and won't end until there isn't one, which may be never.
But yeah back to the question of why we should attack Iran, it seems like you're saying we should invade Iran on Israel's behalf just because we can. What do you think?
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: gluke bastid]
#5555979 - 04/25/06 07:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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We will not feel any compulsion to rebuild Iran. Leaving a smoking hole will be the end of the mission. And we can definitely, easily do that. Without nukes.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: zappaisgod]
#5556005 - 04/25/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: We will not feel any compulsion to rebuild Iran. Leaving a smoking hole will be the end of the mission. And we can definitely, easily do that. Without nukes.
Total destruction of Iran?
Nations don't fight wars like that anymore.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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psilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: blaze2]
#5557528 - 04/26/06 03:29 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Indeed, it would be a total mess.
If Iran's government thought it was facing annihilation it would probably use its medium range missiles to take out Saudi oil facilities (in particular Raz Tanura which terminates the east-west pipeline) then Persian gulf terminals and mine the Straits of Hormuz (the choke point between the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean.
This would cut of Saudi oil supplies for some considerable time, with Hezbollah disrupting repair efforts.
The result of this would be to leave Russia as world's largest exporter by far. It would have to choose where its oil and gas went, to the US, Europe or China, effectively giving Putin control of the world energy market. Something that in the past he has shown he will uses to extend state power.
Hitting Iran from the air will only delay its nuclear program, and a ground invasion would be madness. It would make Iraq look like a 'cakewalk'. This is a country to send hundreds of thousands of people including children in human-wave attacks against Iraq until its positions were overrun.
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BatCountry
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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: psilomonkey]
#5558174 - 04/26/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Personally i dont see Iran being much of a threat if they were really trying to make nuclear weapons i doubt they would announce it thus drawing attention to themselves, thus getting our president all excited about the possiblility of the chance to spill more blood. I think the iranian government just wants to act hard, however i am confident that we will most likely be invading iran, losing more young americans to an undeclared war, increasng the national defecit, and giving our president another chance to huddle behind his desk drinking the blood of freshly slaughtered iranian infants, But hey I suppose its better than him doing coke right??
-------------------- Why Should I take Your Bad Trip? -Ken Kesey
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blaze2
The Witness


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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: BatCountry]
#5558778 - 04/26/06 01:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The Iranian leader wants the bomb. Not for his own security. Not as a bargaining chip. But to use it. He is convinced that he is leading his country into the end times.
Just as bush has said he thinks revelations is happening, this muslim guy believes the korans prophecies are coming true. And thats why he doesnt give a shit if we know he wants the bomb. He has said at rallies that in 2 to 3 years there will be no human history. He doesnt think like you and it is a mistake to assume he cares about anything you think of as "essential" like his own life for instance. Or the life of ALL his people.
You know what else. Weather or not they are right is irrelevent if they really believe in it then it becomes the truth. Thats a scary truth.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: blaze2]
#5559075 - 04/26/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
blaze2 said:
Just as bush has said he thinks revelations is happening,
I eagerly await your link explaining this.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: psilomonkey]
#5559211 - 04/26/06 03:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilomonkey said: Indeed, it would be a total mess.
If Iran's government thought it was facing annihilation it would probably use its medium range missiles to take out Saudi oil facilities (in particular Raz Tanura which terminates the east-west pipeline) then Persian gulf terminals and mine the Straits of Hormuz (the choke point between the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean.
This would cut of Saudi oil supplies for some considerable time, with Hezbollah disrupting repair efforts.
The result of this would be to leave Russia as world's largest exporter by far. It would have to choose where its oil and gas went, to the US, Europe or China, effectively giving Putin control of the world energy market. Something that in the past he has shown he will uses to extend state power.
Hitting Iran from the air will only delay its nuclear program, and a ground invasion would be madness. It would make Iraq look like a 'cakewalk'. This is a country to send hundreds of thousands of people including children in human-wave attacks against Iraq until its positions were overrun.
You are vastly over-rating Iranian capabilities and assuming that if we blow them up they will blow up the Saudis. As if they will be able to do anything except kill each other. We're still in Iraq because we don't want them to kill each other. Iran will have no capability to attack anything outside of it's borders in rather short order. Any mining of the Hormuz straight will be alleviated in short order. Further, Hezbollah seems to be largely a Lebanese creature. Why you think it can stymie any imaginary repair efforts in Saudi Arabia is a mystery to me. Russia will still not command enough market share to dictate prices or control consumers. The market share just isn't there. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922041.html As far as your assessment of Iranian military capabilities it is perfectly in line with the predictions re Afghanistan (they never lose) and Iraq (elite republican guards). The only armies that can stand against ours for even a few minutes are the Chinese and the Russians. And I'm not so sure of them. They will have no air force or navy in less than a week. Human waves of children can't march against planes and missiles.
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twiggedoubt
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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: zappaisgod]
#5561372 - 04/27/06 01:01 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
twiggedoubt said: We can only hope that Iran can finish what the germans started.
This should be preserved forever. As evidence. Of what vile, ignorant scum still walks the earth. Never forget.
lol, looks like your scum too.
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psilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: zappaisgod]
#5561628 - 04/27/06 03:22 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Iran could seriously disrupt traffic through Hormuz, however it has been considered unlikely has Iran would be the first victim, it it would also be unable to ship oil. Hence why Iran's pipeline deals are always opposed by the US.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/arabian-gauntlet.htm
Iran has developed super-cavitation torpedoes based on Russian technology, that could be used to attack shipping.
As for Ras Tanura, the Saudi's main refining and oil pipeline facility, this is not a heavily armoured military position.
Shah-ab-3 ballistic missiles loaded with incendiary warheads would pose a serious threat to the facility, lets just hope that the Patriot interceptors have had got a lot better.
Human wave attacks may not be affective against air power, but they would have a devastating affect on the electorate back home.
You would also be probably be facing a Shia uprising in Iraq, just to add to the joys of the day.
As for overestimating their capabilities, I may be, I have no doubt that Iran could not win against the US, but it could cause a lot of trouble.
What gives Russia the power is as a replacement swing producer if Saudi is taken out of supply,
Assuming Iran is not supplying oil. The gulf was blocked and Ras Tunara seriously damaged, you are talking a very serious reduction in world oil supply, which even if rectified quickly, could trigger a global recession. Having said all that, the thought of Iran getting nukes is truly horrifying. My stock picks for the 21st century are canned food and shotguns.
Just so we are clear, what would be the military objective?
Edited by psilomonkey (04/27/06 03:55 AM)
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psilomonkey
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Registered: 08/08/03
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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: Hitman203]
#5561635 - 04/27/06 03:26 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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As can be seen from this thread, if Israel were to have a war with Iran, it would inevitably mean the US getting involved. So, as to why not, they would need permission.
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RandalFlagg
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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: psilomonkey]
#5561759 - 04/27/06 04:59 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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God, what a fucking mess. If only we could take all of the money we have dumped into the Middle East over the past 50 years (military aid, financial aid, military actions, etc..) and have used it to develop alternative energy sources so we didn't need Middle Eastern oil.
Then we could sit back and watch that part of the world languish in the cesspool that is its reality and it wouldn't matter.
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psilomonkey
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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5561765 - 04/27/06 05:09 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Also I do wonder, if it were not for all these nasty paranoid regimes propped up by vast sums of oil money, while the rest of the economy and social development is left to rot. Would the area be the mess it is today.
I think sometime valuable natural resources can be a curse on a people, empowering vicious, greedy scum that keep their people down.
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BatCountry
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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: psilomonkey]
#5561953 - 04/27/06 08:28 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well one would have to take into account that the countries in the middle east has been fighting amongst each other since before the fucking crusades, all over religion as far as I can tell. So one could hardly blame it all on the oil.
-------------------- Why Should I take Your Bad Trip? -Ken Kesey
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psilomonkey
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Re: Why doesnt Isreal have a war vs Iran... [Re: BatCountry]
#5562329 - 04/27/06 10:31 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Wars are nearly always over resources or political reasons, religion is just the way of getting the masses on side, of course you use religion too much and you can start to believe you own bullshit.
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