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Offlinewhole9
LOVE ME BITCH

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 3,265
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
In the end?...?? do we even need to question?
    #2052302 - 10/29/03 01:09 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If the republicans (mostly conservatives) get their way we would be eventually become slaves to the rich. Basically the rich want to make everything equal at the start assuming a man is born into the world equal, but thats not the case and thats what they (most conservatives) dont understand (the evil understand). Is the rich boy will always have the advantage becuase he has the resources to exceede and accel in what he created. A perfect system for the rich to controll the poor. Poverty will become middle class, and vise versa till only the rich are left as a different class and to assend to that class be basically impossible. Obviously it will never happen becuase people like me wont ever let it happen. The people who realize they need to save the people of this planet earth from being born into a slavery, whether its an obvious or ellusive form, it will be there if we dont fight. So the question is do we penetrate from the inside? Meaning go into the world without exposing things that would flip the script untill its time to flip them all at once rallying the people from the slave society they are creating for themselves. Or do we fight for an equality among beliefes (the current situation), but as far as I can tell its not working. Well its working but eventually it will fail and we will be back at the same spot we are now if we continue on like we do now. If you dont know what im trying to really say please dont respond becuase it will be obvious...  u will just get -->>> :confused:


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
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Re: In the end?...?? do we even need to question? [Re: whole9]
    #2052338 - 10/29/03 01:23 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

After school specials would have us believe that one person CAN make a difference. It's a lie.

The situation I understand you are trying to flesh out is the theme of a pretty cool book. Do you read? T.H White's The Once and Future King is an excellent book, one you wouldn't have trouble finding for cheap at a used book store. It's a take on the authurian legend. Rather than explain it to you now and how it relates to what you're saying I'll just let you discover it yourself if you manage to get out there and buy it.


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Anonymous

Re: In the end?...?? do we even need to question? [Re: whole9]
    #2052356 - 10/29/03 01:27 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i know what you're trying to say and it's bullshit. learn a little economic theory and get back to us.


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Offlinewhole9
LOVE ME BITCH

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 3,265
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: In the end?...?? do we even need to question? [Re: ]
    #2052371 - 10/29/03 01:31 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
i know what you're trying to say and it's bullshit. learn a little economic theory and get back to us.




Explain please.


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Anonymous

Re: In the end?...?? do we even need to question? [Re: whole9]
    #2052481 - 10/29/03 02:03 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

it is as simple as supply and demand.

there is no peaceful way for the great majority of the population to remain impoverished and 'enslaved' by a wealthy elite.

a breakdown of the idea of voluntary exchange:

the best way to gaurantee that transactions between individuals are mutually beneficial is to allow them to occur voluntarily. people do not voluntarily enter into any transaction which they don't believe they will benefit from... peaceful, voluntary transactions are almost always mutually beneficial.

a forced transaction is rarely beneficial for both parties.

is voluntary exchange is to symbiotic mutualism as coercion is to parasitism.

if you feel you're better off without 'the rich', just ignore them. don't accept their offers for employment and don't buy their products.

the trouble is that there are already too many unskilled laborers in the market. the more there are, the more the price for their work will continue to drop.

a disproportionately large group of people with one specific skill set (or lack thereof) = a large group of people who don't get paid shit. it's supply and demand...


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: In the end?...?? do we even need to question? [Re: ]
    #2052686 - 10/29/03 03:22 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

the problem there is that we rely on a lot of products of the rich, especially oil. these are things that most of us don't see ourselves being without. we are already slaves to the system when we are born. most of us think it is impossible to change, when in fact the opposite is true, change is needed. in order to do this change though, we need a vast majority, that which we don't have. i think it will take a crisis involving the environment (ie, over-population, very extreme weather, ice age even?) in order for the system to be revamped. people are too lazy now and the money trap is just the tip of the iceberg


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Offlinewhole9
LOVE ME BITCH

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 3,265
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: In the end?...?? do we even need to question? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2052737 - 10/29/03 03:42 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
the problem there is that we rely on a lot of products of the rich, especially oil. these are things that most of us don't see ourselves being without. we are already slaves to the system when we are born. most of us think it is impossible to change, when in fact the opposite is true, change is needed. in order to do this change though, we need a vast majority, that which we don't have. i think it will take a crisis involving the environment (ie, over-population, very extreme weather, ice age even?) in order for the system to be revamped. people are too lazy now and the money trap is just the tip of the iceberg




w0rd homie good thoughts!


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Anonymous

Re: In the end?...?? do we even need to question? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2053325 - 10/29/03 12:14 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

the problem there is that we rely on a lot of products of the rich

that's why they're rich.

we are already slaves to the system when we are born.

slavery implies force. no one is forcing you to use air conditioning, own an automobile, eat meat, or buy expensive clothing.

though you may be accustomed to these things, and though they may bring you a great deal of comfort and convenience, you can choose to live without them. it's up to you.

the things you do not really have much of a choice over are that you must eat, you must have water, and you must have warm shelter. these are necessities, and yes, you could say that you are a "slave" to them. to live, you must obtain them, and to obtain them, you must work. so to live, you must work. all life on this planet does similarly.

you have every option of forgoing every convenience, every industrial product, every luxury, and living with only the bare essentials necessary to your survival. the only system you are a "slave" to when you are born is your own body.

in order to do this change though, we need a vast majority, that which we don't have.

why do you need a majority? aren't we talking about individual choices here? you have every option of living a simple, earth-friendly lifestyle with little dependence on industrial products, whether the majority follows this same lifesyle or not.


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OfflineLightningfractal
Nutcase

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
Loc: Heaven and Hell
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: In the end?...?? do we even need to question? [Re: ]
    #2082401 - 11/07/03 11:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

you have every option of living a simple, earth-friendly lifestyle with little dependence on industrial products, whether the majority follows this same lifesyle or not.




I'd love to do that,even make my own soap and grow my own food. But I'd need my cd burner and other electronics. I think the biggest rip off is rent and property taxes. I'd like to find a way to live free of those, and generate my own electric power.


--------------------
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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: In the end?...?? do we even need to question? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2082573 - 11/08/03 12:22 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

slavery emphasizes on the complete ownership and control. in this case here we are not talking about force alone. is it possible to brainwash people?? if you say no, then the only way would be force. if not though, there are many ways.

"no one forces you to use and automobile"

lol, yeah that's true, but when I got my first job which was a twenty minute driving distance away I had no "choice" but to drive. now I'm not complaining about the driving, but here's an example. for instance, I sure as hell don't have a say on how good the gas milage is. I know for a fact we have engines that CAN RUN AT 100 MILES PER GALLON. but the automobile companies don't want to do so because of contracts with oil companies. I have no control over these contracts, and THERE IS NO WAY FOR ME TO GET ANY CONTROL OVER IT, EVER. Short of revamping the whole system of course, and for some reason people don't want to DO that. too much work I guess. In this respect, they HAVE the OWNERSHIP, not me, not nobody but them, and they are the few, we are the many, get it??????????????????

Now when I was born, I was born into these "conviences" and as of right now, I am most definately learning how to cope without them. remember, I've always had it, and THEY always told me I need this and I need that. who is they?? advertising of course!!!! being a child and being sat in front of a tv during my early years, WHICH I HAD NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER, I saw over and over, things that THEY told me I should have. things that I need. "you need this now." how many times have we all heard this hmmmmmmmmmmmm???
it is this that is the essence of my argument, this slavery. yes?????


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


Edited by kaiowas (11/08/03 12:24 AM)


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: In the end?...?? do we even need to question? [Re: ]
    #2082585 - 11/08/03 12:29 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"why do you need a majority? aren't we talking about individual choices here? you have every option of living a simple, earth-friendly lifestyle with little dependence on industrial products, whether the majority follows this same lifesyle or not."

sure a lot is lifestyle, a lot isn't though. I can change my lifestyle and become a hobo, but hey, hpow in the hell is that gonna change the fact that we are tearing out the natural wildlife of our earth?? not a damn thing. that's what I mean about majority, we will only get brushed aside if there's ojnly a few, it seems with humans that if there's a lot of people, then and only then is it time to listen.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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