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InvisibleSwami
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Automobiles vs. Humans
    #4248477 - 06/02/05 04:28 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Automobiles: complex machines that run on a combination of oxygen and petroleum (or similar fuel).

Humans: complex machines that run on a combination of oxygen and glucose (sugar).

Do we need an extraneous "soul" to be added to the car equation for it to function? No, because we understand the macro processes involved very well.

Do we need an extraneous "soul" to be added to the human equation for it to function? No, but because some micro-functions are poorly understood; some people deem it necessary even though it doesn't really fill in the gaps at all.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: Swami]
    #4248530 - 06/02/05 04:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

so humans do not need awareness to function?


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Invisibleorechron
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: Deviate]
    #4248547 - 06/02/05 04:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Who's to say awareness isn't a biological function?


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Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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Invisiblerogue_pixie
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: Deviate]
    #4248552 - 06/02/05 04:46 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I think you have a very dull perspective on life, no offence.


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP



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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: Swami]
    #4248558 - 06/02/05 04:47 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Automobiles: complex machines that run on a combination of oxygen and petroleum (or similar fuel).

Humans: complex machines that run on a combination of oxygen and glucose (sugar).

Do we need an extraneous "soul" to be added to the car equation for it to function? No, because we understand the macro processes involved very well.

Do we need an extraneous "soul" to be added to the human equation for it to function? No, but because some micro-functions are poorly understood; some people deem it necessary even though it doesn't really fill in the gaps at all.




autos and other machines do not experiencem the whole cotroversy has risen out of the fact that we experience


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibleorechron
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #4248567 - 06/02/05 04:49 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

None taken. The way I see it, if you need to decieve yourself to make your life interesting you've got some serious issues.

This is what I know vs. This is what I know and what makes me feel warm and fuzzy

Nothing wrong with that but I think it's important to acknowledge if you're doing it.


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: Swami]
    #4248569 - 06/02/05 04:49 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Swami, the car also needs a "driver". Thats the equivalent of the soul to the body. :rotfl:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4248573 - 06/02/05 04:51 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"Who's to say awareness isn't a biological function? "

who's to say the soul isn't a biological function? who's to say awareness is a biological function? read my quantum conciousness thread for a theory of conciousness as a property of matter.


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Invisiblerogue_pixie
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: orechron]
    #4248577 - 06/02/05 04:51 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

orechron said:
None taken. The way I see it, if you need to decieve yourself to make your life interesting you've got some serious issues.

This is what I know vs. This is what I know and what makes me feel warm and fuzzy

Nothing wrong with that but I think it's important to acknowledge if you're doing it.




I'd rather decieve myself with ineteresting stuff than boring shite!


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP



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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: Swami]
    #4248583 - 06/02/05 04:53 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Concepts such as the soul rose out of ignorance, just as we once attributed everything to a plethora of gods and spirits. Once science came along, all of these things went to hide in the darkness, except for the soul due to the human love of simple explanations, even if those explanations have no evidence or reasoning.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisibleorechron
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #4248611 - 06/02/05 04:58 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'd rather deceive myself with interesting stuff than boring shite!

This is what I'm talking about. Does thinking to yourself that you have a soul and are not simply a well-tuned biological process really make your life that much more interesting? How?

I saw a red fox this morning on a run. First one I'd seen around here in at least 2 years. Curious buggers.


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: Ravus]
    #4248613 - 06/02/05 04:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Concepts such as the soul rose out of ignorance, just as we once attributed everything to a plethora of gods and spirits. Once science came along, all of these things went to hide in the darkness, except for the soul due to the human love of simple explanations, even if those explanations have no evidence or reasoning.





that's like saying concepts like ego or super ego arose out of ignornace. these are not things which you will find physical evidence for, they are simply concepts designed to aid one in understanding the mind.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: Deviate]
    #4248628 - 06/02/05 05:02 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"This is what I'm talking about. Does thinking to yourself that you have a soul and are not simply a well-tuned biological process really make your life that much more interesting? How?

I saw a red fox this morning on a run. First one I'd seen around here in at least 2 years. Curious buggers.
"

that's my point. life is the same requardless of which concepts you use to understand it. therefore, using words like soul or spirit instead of conciousness or awareness does not necessarily make one ignorant. it is simply their choice of the sort of conceptual map they wish to use for reality.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #4248638 - 06/02/05 05:03 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

When some primitive cultures first saw a car or a plane, they asked what demon or spirit gave life to the machine. This was so far outside of their world view that it had to be supernatural.

Is the parallel not obvious?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: Deviate]
    #4248652 - 06/02/05 05:04 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If they exist, the ego and superego are just like the software compared to the hardware. They exist as hardware, as the electrical circuits in the brain they are, but we perceive them as software. Souls, however, are ethereal pseudoscientific New Age concepts which, by definition, wouldn't be part of the brain and so couldn't be compared to theories of psychology.

Psychology is mostly just the software of neuroscience, the hardware. Souls and other notions that don't fit into either shouldn't be accepted as scientific, because they have no evidence, wouldn't fit into science and really are quite primitive notions that should've been abandoned long ago.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisibleorechron
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: Deviate]
    #4248663 - 06/02/05 05:07 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

that's my point. life is the same regardless of which concepts you use to understand it. therefore, using words like soul or spirit instead of consciousness or awareness does not necessarily make one ignorant. it is simply their choice of the sort of conceptual map they wish to use for reality.

This is like saying that viewing a volcano eruption as a natural phenomena is just as valid a viewpoint as saying a volcano eruption is gods say of getting back at you for not planting geraniums.


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: orechron]
    #4248701 - 06/02/05 05:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Apparently they have been v-e-r-y lax in planting Geraniums in Mexico lately...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: Ravus]
    #4248702 - 06/02/05 05:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If they exist, the ego and superego are just like the software compared to the hardware. They exist as hardware, as the electrical circuits in the brain they are, but we perceive them as software. Souls, however, are ethereal pseudoscientific New Age concepts which, by definition, wouldn't be part of the brain and so couldn't be compared to theories of psychology.

Psychology is mostly just the software of neuroscience, the hardware. Souls and other notions that don't fit into either shouldn't be accepted as scientific, because they have no evidence, wouldn't fit into science and really are quite primitive notions that should've been abandoned long ago.




what about transpersonal psychology? if indeed it's true that conciousness is a fundmental property of matter, metaphysical theories will need to be incorporated into psychology.

in many metaphysical theories the terms soul or spirit are used to describe aspects of experience (just like ego). in other words arguing over whether they exist or not is silly because they are just concepts which come from a certain perception of reality. as long they are correct relative to each other they serve their purpose.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: Deviate]
    #4248745 - 06/02/05 05:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"This is like saying that viewing a volcano eruption as a natural phenomena is just as valid a viewpoint as saying a volcano eruption is gods say of getting back at you for not planting geraniums. "

classifaction systems can still be invalid, what i'm saying is that they must be internally consistent. if you replaced words like brain and conciousness with very spiritual sounding terms but made sure all the relationships remained unchanged that system of understanding experience would be still be valid.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Automobiles vs. Humans [Re: Swami]
    #4248764 - 06/02/05 05:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Automobiles: complex machines that run on a combination of oxygen and petroleum (or similar fuel).

Humans: complex machines that run on a combination of oxygen and glucose (sugar).

Do we need an extraneous "soul" to be added to the car equation for it to function? No, because we understand the macro processes involved very well.

Do we need an extraneous "soul" to be added to the human equation for it to function? No, but because some micro-functions are poorly understood; some people deem it necessary even though it doesn't really fill in the gaps at all.






"to be added" seem to be your spike..
/me loves assuming..



"Do we need an extraneous "soul" to be added to the car equation for it to function?"

No, no adding, adding would separate (?) the car IS its soul..
a car is a car.. a soul is a soul,
a driven car could be a pink car, and is no longer just a car, but got a soul? :P


--------------------


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Disclaimer!?


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