Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 |  [ show all ]
Christian Perspectives on Drugs?
    #19710100 -

UPDATE: Questions resolved. Thanks to everyone who commented!

So I'm relatively new to cannabis and psychedelics, having only started tripping and smoking in the past two years or so. I really enjoy it and have often had some meaningful spiritual experiences while on drugs. But the thing is...I have yet to shake the nagging doubt that maybe I'm doing something sinful.

Here are some of the questions I'm having to face:
  • Can I really defy my parents and the government and feel no guilt in my secrecy?
  • Does doing psychedelics allow the devil to gain a mental foothold? (I.e. be of sober mind because the devil is prowling around)
  • Is it wrong to use psychedelics as a supplement for more orthodox spiritual growth, such as prayer and scripture?
  • Are my doubts applicable for all Christians, or only for me specifically due to my circumstances or state of faith?

I'm only interested from hearing from other Christians at the moment. I would be keen to hear a variety of perspectives about this. I'm familiar with the arguments that God's creation is good and that all things are technically lawful for a Christian to engage in. I'd like to hear something more creative or personal if possible. Thanks in advance!

Edited by Advocate (03/21/14 05:40 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: Advocate]
    #19710135 -

They're bad. /thread


--------------------
:mushroom2::sun::crazy2::leaf:




...once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest places if you look at it right...



:feelsgoatman:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: Advocate]
    #19710191 -

This may be something only you can answer..


Do you think it puts you further away from the good path?..


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: zZZz]
    #19710227 -

zZZz said:
This may be something only you can answer..



Maybe, but shouldn't there be a universal principle here? Or at least guidelines for how I can tell what the answer is?

Quote:
Do you think it puts you further away from the good path?..



That's a very insightful question. And I want to say yes because my experiences have been good. But then the doubts I mentioned keep popping up...am I just having a hard time adjusting to the fact that all my childhood beliefs about drugs and drug users were so naive? Or do I have valid reasons to doubt? It doesn't help that I lied to my parents and promised I would never use illegal drugs at college, either.

Edited by Advocate (03/17/14 08:23 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: Advocate]
    #19710328 -

Hmm, yea sounds like you have some things on your chest that you need to express..


Personally sometimes I think about those things too and well I guess they have helped me in many ways, and probably still do.. Idk, but anyway It be hard to confront a parent who obviously doesn't like your use of a drug and tell them you are still partaking. And seeing as how much of the propaganda is exaggerated nowadays it doesn't make it any easier. Being a good person is about not wanting to hurt others, no?.. well I think us lying about something in order to keep the person happy even though we still lied our intention was far from a selfish one no?..

Idk man, we are all learning to fly and there will be times when we fall, what is important is that we stand up and try again until we get it right, every mistake is a lesson, it would be foolish to not learn from our mistakes.


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: zZZz]
    #19710370 -

zZZz said:
Being a good person is about not wanting to hurt others, no?.. well I think us lying about something in order to keep the person happy even though we still lied our intention was far from a selfish one no?..



It's easy enough to say that, and I realize there are times when it's "okay" to lie in theory, but I don't know that it's right to deceive my own parents this way. I guess it'll be a moot point in a few years when I'm financially independent.

zZZz said:
Idk man, we are all learning to fly and there will be times when we fall, what is important is that we stand up and try again until we get it right, every mistake is a lesson, it would be foolish to not learn from our mistakes.



So true. I'm going with the attitude of finding my own path to happiness in God and doing the best I can to do what's right. I think in the end if a person is showing the Fruits of the Spirit, then they're on the right path.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: Advocate] * 2
    #19710411 -

• Yes
• No
• Yes
• No

http://distelrath.tripod.com/fabbro.htm

The difficulty I find among most theologians (forget the multitudes of shallow Christian believers who cannot discern the mythic from the literal, the symbolic from the historical), is their entrapment in mind, in concepts about the traditional past, or the imagined future. So much of strictly biblical writ needs to be interpreted with a hermeneutical instrument, like the Jewish PaRDeS ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardes_(Jewish_exegesis) ), and not read all on the literal level by a post-modern mind. The interpretation of the kingdom of heaven as some idyllic earthly condition where "the lion lies down with the lamb," literally, in the future, is a misinterpretation of this metaphysical condition that the non-canonical Gospel of Thomas comprehends with its theology of God-Realization. The kingdom of Heaven, the End of Time (End Times) , occurs not in time, but as soon as one steps outside of time. "Split wood, I am there. Lift up a rock, you will find me there" - Logion 77, Gospel of Thomas.  This is the same 'theology' taught by Eckhart Tolle.

The Tollean or Thomistic interpretation of the biblical mythos is a Gnostic interpretation. Embracing such an interpretation truly removes one from the world-process, just as Jesus preached. It makes for an introverted, contemplative stance in the world, and it is a radically non-violent, non-martial, non-political, non-aggressive, and as such, non-consumerist mentality. All of these social consequences are dangerous to the post-modern materialism of so many so-called Christians who believe that God wants then to be rich, a particular take on "the life abundant." All of these quietist, inner-directed (vs. outer-directed) attitudes can be, quite clearly the result of Entheogenic Experience, if not spontaneous mystical experience.

I was first told "you may choose to be a heretic if you like" by well-known theologian D.G. Leahy, a professor of mine as an undergraduate (who took the mantle from the 'Death of God' theologian Thomas J.J. Altizer). I took a lot of Entheogens in college as a philosophy major, and after Dr. Leahy offered me a tutorial in Plotinus and Pseudo-Dionysus, I went on take a degree in theology, but not before I took baptism (not a small thing for a young Jewish man). I earned that degree in 1978, and I've had to live my 'Christianized' inner life, inwardly, as there are very few Gnostic churches in the world, since two millennia of established Orthodoxy has been vigilant in exterminating Gnostics and immolating their writings in favor of the 'acceptable' canon. But salvation history continues through time, and today's Entheogenic Enthusiasts may well go down in future church history books as yet another iteration of Gnostic Christianity, resurrected, along with the Nag Hammadi library that the imperialistic and murderous perverters of the faith sought to eradicate so long ago.

If the history of persecution, torture, inquisition, crusade, and general genocide is not sufficient to illustrate to you the questionable validity of mainstream, Orthodox Christianity, then nothing I write here is going to convince you either. The End Times did not come (as Paul believed was immanent), because Paul's understanding of Christ, and the Christianity that Paul was the architect of, was theologically and psychologically wrong! Moreover, it has done little to transform individual Christians or the world into anything resembling a kingdom of Heaven. But like me, you will have to come to your own conclusion and make your own decisions. Before Christianity became the persecutors, they too practiced their Way secretly, apart from family and government, some in the once sacrosanct catacombs beneath Rome until these too were violated by a fascist regime. A young man can still be given life in prison for selling LSD (not the Coliseum, or crucifixion, but evil, draconian  and wrong nevertheless). You are living through the only history that you can verify yourself, here and now.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (03/17/14 11:41 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19710480 -

Well, Markos, I still don't agree with gnostic theology, but neither would I call myself "orthodox." Regardless, we can save the larger debate for another time; I don't resent you bringing the gnostic view into this discussion, however. You raise some very interesting points that I would consider quite applicable to my own faith, and you do succeed at easing some of my doubts.

As you say, I have to come to my own conclusions in the end. The only principle I can think of that would apply universally is that if something brings you closer to God, then it is useful. With marijuana and other drugs, such a question might simply come down to one's personal mindset.

I know we've had our differences, and I have been outspoken at times in denouncing your views, but I appreciate you valuing me enough as a person to take the time to respond objectively to my questions. Thank you, and God bless.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: Advocate]
    #19711182 -

:cheers: Advocate.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19713265 -

sounds like the devil (aka guilt and fear) already has a mental foothold. if you believe your actions may result in spending eternity in hell and that god, in his omnipotence and omnipresence would allow that, then you might as well make friends with guilt and fear. you give yourself too much power--we do not have the ability to appease god thru moral choices. the law is death, an extension of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. it was originally given to us to show us we are not in control and encourage us to give up and rely on grace. the bible also calls it a tutor, something to keep us in line until we evolved enough spiritually to understand grace. but grace isnt about sinning to our heart's content just because all things are now seen as lawful, it's about recognizing that god is everything and all is well. so basically you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19717019 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
• Yes
• No
• Yes
• No

http://distelrath.tripod.com/fabbro.htm

The difficulty I find among most theologians (forget the multitudes of shallow Christian believers who cannot discern the mythic from the literal, the symbolic from the historical), is their entrapment in mind, in concepts about the traditional past, or the imagined future. So much of strictly biblical writ needs to be interpreted with a hermeneutical instrument, like the Jewish PaRDeS ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardes_(Jewish_exegesis) ), and not read all on the literal level by a post-modern mind. The interpretation of the kingdom of heaven as some idyllic earthly condition where "the lion lies down with the lamb," literally, in the future, is a misinterpretation of this metaphysical condition that the non-canonical Gospel of Thomas comprehends with its theology of God-Realization. The kingdom of Heaven, the End of Time (End Times) , occurs not in time, but as soon as one steps outside of time. "Split wood, I am there. Lift up a rock, you will find me there" - Logion 77, Gospel of Thomas.  This is the same 'theology' taught by Eckhart Tolle.

The Tollean or Thomistic interpretation of the biblical mythos is a Gnostic interpretation. Embracing such an interpretation truly removes one from the world-process, just as Jesus preached. It makes for an introverted, contemplative stance in the world, and it is a radically non-violent, non-martial, non-political, non-aggressive, and as such, non-consumerist mentality. All of these social consequences are dangerous to the post-modern materialism of so many so-called Christians who believe that God wants then to be rich, a particular take on "the life abundant." All of these quietist, inner-directed (vs. outer-directed) attitudes can be, quite clearly the result of Entheogenic Experience, if not spontaneous mystical experience.

I was first told "you may choose to be a heretic if you like" by well-known theologian D.G. Leahy, a professor of mine as an undergraduate (who took the mantle from the 'Death of God' theologian Thomas J.J. Altizer). I took a lot of Entheogens in college as a philosophy major, and after Dr. Leahy offered me a tutorial in Plotinus and Pseudo-Dionysus, I went on take a degree in theology, but not before I took baptism (not a small thing for a young Jewish man). I earned that degree in 1978, and I've had to live my 'Christianized' inner life, inwardly, as there are very few Gnostic churches in the world, since two millennia of established Orthodoxy has been vigilant in exterminating Gnostics and immolating their writings in favor of the 'acceptable' canon. But salvation history continues through time, and today's Entheogenic Enthusiasts may well go down in future church history books as yet another iteration of Gnostic Christianity, resurrected, along with the Nag Hammadi library that the imperialistic and murderous perverters of the faith sought to eradicate so long ago.

If the history of persecution, torture, inquisition, crusade, and general genocide is not sufficient to illustrate to you the questionable validity of mainstream, Orthodox Christianity, then nothing I write here is going to convince you either. The End Times did not come (as Paul believed was immanent), because Paul's understanding of Christ, and the Christianity that Paul was the architect of, was theologically and psychologically wrong! Moreover, it has done little to transform individual Christians or the world into anything resembling a kingdom of Heaven. But like me, you will have to come to your own conclusion and make your own decisions. Before Christianity became the persecutors, they too practiced their Way secretly, apart from family and government, some in the once sacrosanct catacombs beneath Rome until these too were violated by a fascist regime. A young man can still be given life in prison for selling LSD (not the Coliseum, or crucifixion, but evil, draconian  and wrong nevertheless). You are living through the only history that you can verify yourself, here and now.




Orthodox Christianity is just a valid as Gnostic, they are just two different interpretations. The spiritual life has always been challenging and as Jesus said, there are few who find the narrow gate which leads to life. It's not a matter of Gnostic vs. Orthodox but how committed the aspirant is. I don't see how you can possibly not understand that if one were to follow all the teachings of Orthodox Christianity they would so obviously arrive at sainthood despite any flaws or imperfections which might exist in the Orthodox church. Clearly then, it is a matter of personal endeavor/commitment and not which faith you subscribe to. The irony is that you continually list many books (such as the Philokalia or the Interior Castle) written by fully Orthodox authors as your favorite spiritual works. If Orthodox Christianity is a valid path to God (and it must be given that authors you yourself have posted successfully followed that path) then why do you constantly feel the need to belittle it and promote your gnostic heresies? Converting to gnosticism doesn't accomplish a damn thing, what is important is practice the faith correctly, that is prayer, study, good works, regular reception of the sacraments  and the like. Both gnostic and Orthodox Christianity say the same thing in the end, that we need to attain union with God. Orthodox stresses the importance of receiving grace through the sacraments to help one along in this process (and there is nothing wrong with that approach).

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: Deviate]
    #19717161 -

I would recommend you study The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, by John Allegro

Why? Well for me this was a milestone of a book which really initiated me into understanding how they deviously composed their written down myths in LAYERS OF MEANING using all forms of devices and techniques which only those who 'understood'---the initiated could understand. The 'masses' just literally read the sur-face stories, and were fear-based-mind-controlled with the threat of reward/'heaven' or punishment/hell' if they did not obey "the Word of God".
Quote:
What the authorities really forbid is the subject's efforts of self-determination. What they fear most is a narrowing of the gap between ruler and ruled. How this gap is measured---whether in theological, economic, political, racist, sexual or psychiatric terms---is not especially important. Revolt against authority, was, and remains to this day, the original sin, and the classic crime of the individual
-The Manufacture of Madness, by Thomas Szasz




True, but you can even dig deeper, and Allegro reveals that the 'fruit' forbidden by the 'God' was a mind-altering psychedelic fruit!
And when you look at this religion's history we find the very same action being taken via their Inquisition in Europe and taken to the 'New World' where so many people were persecuted and tortured and killed because they 'disobeyed' and also took mind-altering sacraments

So my investigation has been asking why. What is the great fear, and oppression about? It is about MIND-CONTROL.

As for regular use of cannabis, just be warned. I have a friend who had smoked most of her life, but after she gave it up because of a life-threatening complaint she found she had heart palpitations. See, what smoking cannabis does is speed up your heart rate, and thus if this happens regularly, stopping it after years of increased metabolism can bring on problems for the body. Just like alcohol, any drug relied on daily can have deleterious effects on the organism. This is also especially so with psychiatric medication!

Edited by zzripz (03/19/14 04:00 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: zzripz]
    #19717196 -

After years of doubts and struggling, I'm glad to say that I'm completely at peace with my faith now, and that's what matters most to me. I'm coming to realize that if psychedelics draw me closer to God, then they are to my benefit. To the pure, all things are pure! I'm not here to debate beliefs so much as to find peace within my own soul.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: Advocate] * 1
    #19717848 -

>> I have yet to shake the nagging doubt that maybe I'm doing something sinful.

Clearly it's time to up your dose.


>>Can I really defy my parents and the government and feel no guilt in my secrecy?

This has nothing to do with Christian morality and everything to do with your own private morality.


>> Does doing psychedelics allow the devil to gain a mental foothold? (I.e. be of sober mind because the devil is prowling around)

The devil is not prowling around, because there does not exist a separate entity called "the devil."  Your greatest foe--the most powerful deceiver you will ever confront--is your own uncontrolled mind.  By anthropomorphizing this in the form of an external spirit, you are unwittingly granting almost absolute power to your latent cravings and impulses.  This is already evident in the content of your post.

So long as you carry on with externalized polarities, your wisdom will be like a tree planted in stone, blasted by the frigid winds of ignorance.


>>Is it wrong to use psychedelics as a supplement for more orthodox spiritual growth, such as prayer and scripture?

Psychedelics will either carry you away from such fantasies, or they will carry you deeper into them.  Either way, orthodox Christianity, prayer, and scripture are all just fantasies.  To realize this is to be a successful Christian.


>> Are my doubts applicable for all Christians, or only for me specifically due to my circumstances or state of faith?

Your doubts are necessarily linked to your perceptions.


>> I'm only interested from hearing from other Christians at the moment. I would be keen to hear a variety of perspectives about this.

Unfortunately, the Christian religion has deteriorated to such an extent that your request is contradictory in nature.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: Deviate] * 1
    #19718191 -

Orthodox Christianity is just a valid as Gnostic, they are just two different interpretations. The spiritual life has always been challenging and as Jesus said, there are few who find the narrow gate which leads to life. It's not a matter of Gnostic vs. Orthodox but how committed the aspirant is. I don't see how you can possibly not understand that if one were to follow all the teachings of Orthodox Christianity they would so obviously arrive at sainthood despite any flaws or imperfections which might exist in the Orthodox church. Clearly then, it is a matter of personal endeavor/commitment and not which faith you subscribe to. The irony is that you continually list many books (such as the Philokalia or the Interior Castle) written by fully Orthodox authors as your favorite spiritual works. If Orthodox Christianity is a valid path to God (and it must be given that authors you yourself have posted successfully followed that path) then why do you constantly feel the need to belittle it and promote your gnostic heresies? Converting to gnosticism doesn't accomplish a damn thing, what is important is practice the faith correctly, that is prayer, study, good works, regular reception of the sacraments  and the like. Both gnostic and Orthodox Christianity say the same thing in the end, that we need to attain union with God. Orthodox stresses the importance of receiving grace through the sacraments to help one along in this process (and there is nothing wrong with that approach).

In the first place, I object to your pejorative use of the word "heresies." Heterodox is more appropriate. Gnosis is not a heretical term, it means 'knowledge,' or an a priori type, not an epistemological a posteriori knowledge gleaned from sense and reason. Certain Gnostic religions were indeed heretical, such as the perverse Carpocratians and Phibionites, but your tone is condescending, condemning, uncritical and clearly prejudicial. Gnostics, or in the idiom you prefer, Christian Gnostics (versus Gnostic Christians)* after Valentinus, recognize levels, or degrees of commitment as you suggest. The one who "lives by faith alone" is considered to be a Psychic Christian, while the Pneumatic Christian is one who 'Knows' by certain experiences of 'grace,' which supersede the 'organ' of faith. Moreover, the Gnostic attitude acknowledges one's personal experience as primary (as a Phenomenologist) and only secondarily finds its corroboration in scriptures. Fortunately for the Gnostic, the Nag Hammadi library was re-discovered, so that the limited canon is not the only guide for such experiences. The typical and ignorant tack is to relegate all personal experiences to the "angel of light," which is to say, Lucifer, and hence a demonic deception. Why is that? It is like all the bald-headed men in my life since I was 18 years old with long hair, who insisted that I cut my hair. The reason is pretty obvious. Envy comes in and tries to deny something that another has. Similarly with spiritual experience. The numerous Gnostic myths are just as 'mythic' as those contained in the canonical Bible, but Gnostics 'Know' this, whereas Psychic Christians take myth for history, midrash and metaphor are mistakenly understood to be literal facts.

I am not a monk living on Mount Athos, Greece, but their writings are powerful methods of contemplation that engage the bodily posture, the breath, and certain psychophysical techniques that are similar to the yogas, and s such, manifest the Hesychastic understanding of the human being as a tripartite body-mind-spirit in such a way as to attempt the smooth integration of all elements. Psychic Christians can become Pneumatic. BTW. Interior Castle was written by a Catholic, Teresa of Avila (you may know this already). I have a childhood friend who made a mistake, got a felony, prison time, and now he has been humbled to cleaning his Greek Orthodox church for no pay with his time. Penance I suppose. He is a drowning man clinging to a plank with his newfound religiosity, encouraged by his religious wife. He has been reading Christian history and theology avidly, and is now where I was in the late 1970s, when I was in seminary, but from his current perspective, HE knows better than me. His religious upbringing never permitted him to imagine that all the acid trips he took (I turned him on initially) revealed anything of what all his theology about theosis, apocatastasis, catharsis, metanoia, and other Greek terms suggest. For him, entheogens are nothing more than "a lot of fun," which I find dishonest and demeaning, because the highest experiences are, as far as I am concerned, the most Holy experiences a human being can have. This is not to say that these experiences are not attained spontaneously, or by severe deprivations (the mythic "40 days and forty nights" of fasting for example).

* The emphasis on adjective or verb says volumes. At some point, a Gnostic Christian may become a Christian Gnostic, wherein his understanding attains to a level of true catholicity, of universality. Certain experiences of Gnosis show one the Perennial Philosophy, wherein any Christian imperialism left, any nurtured thought that Christians or Christianity is superior to all other paths is transcended and one has the Realization that the God that one experiences in Gnosis is not Christian, neither is God Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, or ANY other cultural projection. THEN and only then is one truly "in Christ," in whom "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" - Galatians 3:28. Until that time, one is a 'Christian,' a Christian-colored or Christianized human being, but one is not "in Christ" because all of that self-conscious, self-referencing Christian identity stuff no longer serves a purpose, and indeed it stains the purity of the Truth of the matter. It separates 'us from them,' and clearly then, one is NOT "one in Christ Jesus." So in one sense you are correct about paths leading to the same end, but just as with Gnostics, an Orthodox will quickly cease to be considered Orthodox when he attains to this 'end,' which is Gnosis, and moreover, his former brothers and sisters will reject him for "being in Christ," for being 'a Christ' when they are still merely Christians. Whether you call this hypothetical Christian a Gnostic or a 'Christ' matters little, the effect on one's peers has always been one of alienation if not hostility. Reason enough for the multitudes to hold themselves back. It's lonely at the top of the mountain.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19718835 -

I agree with most of what you say, and if I was condescending it is only because of your condescending attitude toward mainstream churches.

I know that when one realizes God, it is beyond any particular religious idea of God.

But you seem to take a condescending attitude toward those who haven't reached that level of knowledge yet.

Not all psychic Christians confuse myth and history, and if some of them do, so what? As long as they are truly sincere and faithful followers of God, they will eventually be brought to knowledge of the truth.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: Deviate]
    #19718979 -

Quote:
Psychedelics will either carry you away from such fantasies, or they will carry you deeper into them.  Either way, orthodox Christianity, prayer, and scripture are all just fantasies.  To realize this is to be a successful Christian.




Prayer is not a fantasy, it's a spiritual practice. Yes, one could say that from the absolute standpoint, all spiritual practices belong to the realm of fantasy but I feel like with the way you are phrasing it you make it sound as though prayer is useless, and it is anything but useless.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: Deviate]
    #19719332 -

>> the way you are phrasing it you make it sound as though prayer is useless, and it is anything but useless

It is as useful as you believe it to be, but no more than this.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: Deviate] * 1
    #19719376 -

Deviate said:
I agree with most of what you say, and if I was condescending it is only because of your condescending attitude toward mainstream churches.

I know that when one realizes God, it is beyond any particular religious idea of God.

But you seem to take a condescending attitude toward those who haven't reached that level of knowledge yet.

Not all psychic Christians confuse myth and history, and if some of them do, so what? As long as they are truly sincere and faithful followers of God, they will eventually be brought to knowledge of the truth.




I am not condescending to YOU, to churches in the abstract, yes. I've seen my share of churches, congregants, and so-called Christians to know what I'm talking about. Having a breakthrough is a
peak experience,' Like the mythic Moses, one is granted a revelation but one does not remain there. One comes down from the peak (as from every entheogenic excursion), and esoterically, one leaves the Crown Center, communicates one's unifying peak experience through the Throat Center, be it speech, writings or stone tablets, and one returns to the 'marketplace,' the town square, or center of human interaction where one 'tabernacles' or dwells. This is 'the place of the Heart,' where the peak experience comes to dwell as on a plateau, and continues to inform the experiencer.

If people confuse myth with history, their day-to-day and moment-to-moment grasp of reality remains questionable at best. These are the people who reject science because they cannot reconcile science with their beliefs, which are myth misinterpreted as history. These are the people who say things like 'God created dinosaur fossils to test the faith of men,' or that 'the devil created fossils to deceive mankind,' and believe it! Adam and Eve, the talking snake, and God walking in the cool of the morning in the garden of Eden, are all taken quite literally by all too many people. When hermeneutics is brought up, the question of interpretation comes up, and then it becomes an ego thing about who has the 'gift of discernment,' when it's really about who is intelligent enough, or has enough common sense to detect mythic language or allegorical language or mystical language when they read it.

Moreover, relatively few people can break through their long-held interpretations, or even want to! A more accurate interpretation means becoming more spiritually responsible. Then there are those people (I've known one) who will refuse medical treatment, because if God wants me to be healed, I'll be healed - and then dies as a result. It's even worse when they inflict this delusion onto their children, because they have this anthropomorphic notion of God as a loving father who would not possibly allow a child to die. Wake the fuck up! If you were blessed by being born in the 1st world, take your kid to the ER! These people are delusional and expect miracles. It's like the joke about guy on the roof of his house in a flood who refuses to board a boat, and refuses to harness himself to a helicopter. When he dies and comes before God, he asks God why he wasn't saved [i.e., miraculously] and God says, 'I sent a boat, and a helicopter, what do you want from me?' Some people want so much to see that the battle of Armaggedon in Revelations as real, they welcome a nuclear conflagration in the Middle East! This is a massive 'us vs. them' mentality, as is the idea of the saved vs. the damned. These things and many more are part-and-parcel the result of not having an esoteric understanding of biblical material, but a strictly exoteric, historical one.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christian Perspectives on Drugs? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19719384 -

I you have to ask people if its okay to do drugs, then its not okay to do drugs


--------------------


DISCLAIMER:
Everything I say is completely and 100% true and is a widely known and personally tested fact.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 |  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Drugs, Buddhism, and States of Consciousness
( 1 2 3 all )
Buddha1 12,385 43 05/31/17 10:33 PM
by eve69
* What IS Psychedelic Experience for You?
( 1 2 3 all )
zzripz 5,076 49 05/05/11 09:32 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* The Snakes are inside me...
( 1 2 3 all )
Adamist 14,277 44 02/05/21 10:58 PM
by makalis
* Heaven is coming to earth *the sequel*
( 1 2 3 4 ... 51 52 )
zorbman 182,898 1,020 03/15/18 06:53 PM
by BrendanFlock
* Dream Thread
( 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 )
ShroomismM 52,391 253 05/24/24 03:39 AM
by Buster_Brown
* What religion are you?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )
undecided 26,839 183 08/30/24 06:48 AM
by Nehl
* Shamanism
( 1 2 all )
Moonshoe 9,289 37 02/02/10 12:17 PM
by c0sm0nautt
* OBE, astral projection
( 1 2 all )
XUL 6,506 21 09/01/06 01:29 AM
by xaxphaanes

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Asante, Shroomism, Rose, Kickle, yogabunny, Northerner, DividedQuantum
8,207 topic views. 1 members, 47 guests and 17 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.033 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 18 queries.