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Offlinezzripz
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What IS Psychedelic Experience for You?
    #14371141 - 04/29/11 06:22 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I am going to be as clear as I can be straight off with this. I am asking what is psychedelic experience?
In MY experience I began tripping relatively young. To cut a long story short, what LSD taken at 15 did for me was to blow away a certain mind-control that with hindsight I now know happened to me from being a littler kid who was into the magical sense of nature, into a kid in love with an image of the big city, who would throw litter at nature, swear a lot, and was growing a sadistic streak.
LSD brought me back to seeing nature and magical and full of meaning. So it was a real life-changer. And it has parked this inquisitive streak where I will ask question as deep as they may go.

I have been involved with a nother thread about conspiracy theory and have noticed that most of the people frquenting the thread seem---ASLEEP, IN DENIAL-----almost like government agents!!
What is ironical is that I am also researching an article for a blog I do called 'can psychedelics help us see through propaganda?'. But obviously I feel they can, but my experience with that thread make me wonder how come some who take psychedelics CAN'T according to how I see it.

So this is why i am asking what is psychedelic experience. is is enough just to take psychedelics? OR does one already have to have a deeper understanding of things would you say?
it is a difficult question to articulate.

Let me give an example. I was part of this 'scienceblog' where, yeah, you guessed it it is devoted to promoting 'science', and I was talking about stuff that mainstream science dont wanna know and ridicules. I had to bring in subject of psychedelics and got ganged up on even more. One guy said he had done a whole range of psychedelics but 'knew' that "psychedelics fuck with your perception' and are just a "chemical ride".

Now, no doubt people who use these forums think the same thing. So my wonder is WHY doesn't psychedelics work for them like it works for me and others where we see FAR more deeper sacred meaning to do with psychedelics?

The other thread I mentioned I was with was about wanting to discuss the possibility that an occult elite is in control of this 'world'. But most of the replies I received were trolls----not taking it seriously and/or contradicting it. WHY? How come psychedelics hasn't opened their eyes to what is going on?


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14371148 - 04/29/11 06:25 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Just because someone's eyes are "open" doesn't mean they're looking in the same direction as you are.  Or that you are looking towards truth.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14371151 - 04/29/11 06:27 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Just because someone's eyes are "open" doesn't mean they're looking in the same direction as you are.  Or that you are looking towards truth.




Or they are?

How can you tell though when someone's on the right or wrong track?


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InvisibleAndyRawrs
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14371267 - 04/29/11 07:34 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Just because someone's eyes are "open" doesn't mean they're looking in the same direction as you are.  Or that you are looking towards truth.




Or they are?

How can you tell though when someone's on the right or wrong track?




How can you objectively state the nature of a "track" as subjective qualities? 

in other words, how can you say that your view is the right one and that someone else's (who don't agree with your perception) is the wrong one?


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: AndyRawrs]
    #14372310 - 04/29/11 02:01 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AndyRawrs said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Just because someone's eyes are "open" doesn't mean they're looking in the same direction as you are.  Or that you are looking towards truth.




Or they are?

How can you tell though when someone's on the right or wrong track?




How can you objectively state the nature of a "track" as subjective qualities? 

in other words, how can you say that your view is the right one and that someone else's (who don't agree with your perception) is the wrong one?




Say i have a pot plant and someone thinks its alright to 'water' it with toxic liquid instead of water. My perception that plant needs water and not toxic shit that will kill it is the right one, yeah?


Edited by zzripz (04/29/11 02:02 PM)


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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14372709 - 04/29/11 03:53 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Well, that really isn't a great analogy to use, but what if someone else came along and showed how your water was also potentially toxic, and not the best thing for the plant?

In other words, how do you KNOW that your 'way' is different... and 'better'? Well... you don't. Of course you are going to be biased towards your own thoughts and subjective experiences, which is what makes it *seem* like a better route.

As for the psychedelic experience, for me I agree with a lot of the things Terence Mckenna has to say about them, they are a platform which acts as a catalyst to dissolve ordinary boundaries and conditioned states of thinking... it takes the user to a place beyond language, a place where the vessel of language cannot be propelled.

Psychedelics raise questions, usually deep rooted questions in the user or it springs fourth questions that could potentially start an upheaval in a society, it basically pushes the most sensitive buttons that a society has as TM puts it.

Now, I think under the right circumstances just about everyone could benefit from the psychedelic experience, but I still think caution and respect towards oneself and the drug is the most important step to take before entering this realm of the unknown. This is what the psychedelic experience has done for me... it helped me realize what I really want out of life, and how I can achieve everything I desire in this life... however it isn't some godlike experience that I am going to preach to everyone... it is still a subjective experience and there are people on the planet who got the same exact insight as I did through other means, such as meditation, or maybe a near death experience, or maybe just being in a culture that promoted these ideas from the start.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14373627 - 04/29/11 06:48 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

foliocb said:
Well, that really isn't a great analogy to use, but what if someone else came along and showed how your water was also potentially toxic, and not the best thing for the plant?

In other words, how do you KNOW that your 'way' is different... and 'better'? Well... you don't. Of course you are going to be biased towards your own thoughts and subjective experiences, which is what makes it *seem* like a better route.




Sorry it is a good analogy, and it plays out sadly in real life. Texaco actually polluted an indigenous peoples fores including their river, and made out oil was good for the land! They look at these people as "non people". Now, I am looking at the people who work for Texaco as dehuminized fukin monsters who only care for profit and have no emapthy for LIFE. I dont need to ask you what your perception is about this, because I trust my own.

Quote:

As for the psychedelic experience, for me I agree with a lot of the things Terence Mckenna has to say about them, they are a platform which acts as a catalyst to dissolve ordinary boundaries and conditioned states of thinking... it takes the user to a place beyond language, a place where the vessel of language cannot be propelled.

Psychedelics raise questions, usually deep rooted questions in the user or it springs fourth questions that could potentially start an upheaval in a society, it basically pushes the most sensitive buttons that a society has as TM puts it.

Now, I think under the right circumstances just about everyone could benefit from the psychedelic experience, but I still think caution and respect towards oneself and the drug is the most important step to take before entering this realm of the unknown. This is what the psychedelic experience has done for me... it helped me realize what I really want out of life, and how I can achieve everything I desire in this life... however it isn't some godlike experience that I am going to preach to everyone... it is still a subjective experience and there are people on the planet who got the same exact insight as I did through other means, such as meditation, or maybe a near death experience, or maybe just being in a culture that promoted these ideas from the start.




Terrence McKenna was a psychedelic transhumanist. So I cannot dig that. NOT when you find out where the dream of transhumanism is coming from----a psychopathic occultist elite who think of themselves as gods.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14373969 - 04/29/11 08:02 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
I dont need to ask you what your perception is about this, because I trust my own.




Why use a forum?


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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14374052 - 04/29/11 08:22 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:

Sorry it is a good analogy, and it plays out sadly in real life. Texaco actually polluted an indigenous peoples fores including their river, and made out oil was good for the land! They look at these people as "non people". Now, I am looking at the people who work for Texaco as dehuminized fukin monsters who only care for profit and have no emapthy for LIFE. I dont need to ask you what your perception is about this, because I trust my own.






What does that story have to do with your old analogy of watering your own 'pot plant'?


Quote:

zzripz said:


Terrence McKenna was a psychedelic transhumanist. So I cannot dig that. NOT when you find out where the dream of transhumanism is coming from----a psychopathic occultist elite who think of themselves as gods.




Definition for 'transhumanist':

    Transhumanism is the philosophy that we can and should develop to higher levels, both physically, mentally and socially.

So you're against this via psychedelics? The biggest message TM seemed to push was the idea of individual, selfless empowerment which imo is one of the biggest things any human can realize in life. I also don't recall any videos of TM claiming to be anything close to a god.

You seem to be interested in psychedelics yet you seem very narrow minded. I think you are completely missing the point... maybe you have a bloated ego that's only interested in confirmation biased replies :shrug::boot:


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14374614 - 04/29/11 10:37 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I think a psychedelic (mind turning) experience is a perspective changing one, it could even be called a rebirth. It's the same symbolism you find in "baptism of the spirit", the raising of Osiris, Satori, Paul's experience on the road to Damascus, and many symbolic descriptions of an event that is so powerful it transforms ones entire way of understanding and interacting with the world.

That being said, a lot of people who take mushrooms never have a legit psychedelic experience, they just have a good time.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14375868 - 04/30/11 04:17 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:




What does that story have to do with your old analogy of watering your own 'pot plant'?






I just ruddy explained it?

Quote:



Definition for 'transhumanist':

    Transhumanism is the philosophy that we can and should develop to higher levels, both physically, mentally and socially.

So you're against this via psychedelics? The biggest message TM seemed to push was the idea of individual, selfless empowerment which imo is one of the biggest things any human can realize in life. I also don't recall any videos of TM claiming to be anything close to a god.

You seem to be interested in psychedelics yet you seem very narrow minded. I think you are completely missing the point... maybe you have a bloated ego that's only interested in confirmation biased replies :shrug::boot:





Oh come onnn get real dude. Since when do the powers that be encourage us to 'devlop to higher levels'---which to me would mean shuckin off their oppressive straigtjacket facism. NO, they suppress our free access to entheogenic healing, even medical use of marijuana, they are poisoning everything, and even want to genetically change our food, and patent seeds, and all kinds of evil shit. AND THESES mr dude are the same mindset PUSHIN H+ (another symbol they use for transhumanism). Maaan, they dont even know what it is to be human, never freakin mind 'trans' human. I take it you are familiar with our world?...?

So what did we have with McKenna, his repeating the very trick they wanna pull on the unsuspecting sheeple, to connect up our minds to a computer...?
Now, you should a fan of McKenna, and I would be interested to know this-----did he in ANY talk even mention about the Illuminati plans for transhumanism?


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Offlineivander
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14376193 - 04/30/11 07:47 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I don't mean to be judgmental, but you have really narrow perspective about some things. Its not that I dont agree with you. The powers that be.. IMO they were powers, not anymore, but that is not what I want to say. IF you dont have evil or negative side to this world.. there would not be a positive one either. If you want to change somethings, is natural at least in this world to push against something.
If you realize that they are playing tricks upon us.. or you, why do you get upset or idk, angry, nervous.. whatever. Just dont buy into it. And be the change you want to see.

So since when they are encouraging us to 'develop to higher levels'? Well, if they did't make these restrictions and these 'evil' deeds, people would mostly not wonder why are they doing this. And would not embark on a Psychedelic quest, to see, why is this stuff forbidden.

People have different perspective, and some of them, just dont take shrooms to expand their minds.. some just take them cuz they expect to see crazy colors, bending crazy walls and stuff. Not all of us have intentions to question global world issues, to ponder at deeper meaning of life.. while digging trough subconscious labyrinth.
Mostly people dont want to know or dont want to face certain stuff cuz they are afraid. Denial and ridicule are classic symptoms of that kind of fear, IMO, thats where trolls come, regarding your question why Psychedelics have not opened their eyes to NWO, world control, illuminati and that kind of stories.
Beside thats all bullocks to me now.. stories about some great evil controlers.. only to make you question your saftey, and your motives to go on, while making it look like no matter what we do, that things will remain hopeless. Yea its the great pyramid with all seeing eye on top.. but if you take few block from bottom.. then shit is going down.

:sunny:


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: ivander]
    #14376492 - 04/30/11 10:34 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:
I don't mean to be judgmental, but you have really narrow perspective about some things. Its not that I dont agree with you. The powers that be.. IMO they were powers, not anymore, but that is not what I want to say. IF you dont have evil or negative side to this world.. there would not be a positive one either. If you want to change somethings, is natural at least in this world to push against something.
If you realize that they are playing tricks upon us.. or you, why do you get upset or idk, angry, nervous.. whatever. Just dont buy into it. And be the change you want to see.




Of course they are a power. They are poisoning everything. Haven't you noticed? They are starting wars and attacking innocent children, and spreading radiocative contamination which is a silent killer causing cancers and DNA damage for many years to come. Need I go on? It is REALLY happening, and I dont think it is a narrow perspective to want to talk about this and bring it to preoples attention regardless of how you judge it. Of course I get angry, upset, nervous, dont you? or are you some kind of machine who doesn't feel anything. the reason we feel is that we wont burn ourself, so nurture your feelings and find OUT why your angry and upset and nervous. The worst thing is feeling like that and not understanding why. It dont mean you wont also laugh, and have fun, but you cannot escape feeling these other feelings IF you are human, and or not a smack addict, or alcoholic, etc which tries to block uncomfortable feeling.
Quote:


So since when they are encouraging us to 'develop to higher levels'? Well, if they did't make these restrictions and these 'evil' deeds, people would mostly not wonder why are they doing this. And would not embark on a Psychedelic quest, to see, why is this stuff forbidden.




So you WELCOME oppression in other words because you feel it is good for you/us? that is a weird position to take. That to me sounds defatest, and just accepting any only shit they throw at you. It is victim-talk. It is like a battered wife thinking her treatment is bringing out something good in her, and so keeps going back and bacik for more.
try dude to look further than your experience, or idealism, to see what it is doing in communities like Mexico for example where thousands are dying in the drug war.

Quote:

People have different perspective, and some of them, just dont take shrooms to expand their minds.. some just take them cuz they expect to see crazy colors, bending crazy walls and stuff. Not all of us have intentions to question global world issues, to ponder at deeper meaning of life.. while digging trough subconscious labyrinth.
Mostly people dont want to know or dont want to face certain stuff cuz they are afraid. Denial and ridicule are classic symptoms of that kind of fear, IMO, thats where trolls come, regarding your question why Psychedelics have not opened their eyes to NWO, world control, illuminati and that kind of stories.
Beside thats all bullocks to me now.. stories about some great evil controlers.. only to make you question your saftey, and your motives to go on, while making it look like no matter what we do, that things will remain hopeless. Yea its the great pyramid with all seeing eye on top.. but if you take few block from bottom.. then shit is going down.

:sunny:




I am not interested in people taking psychedelics for a buzz. Go to some other thread. This is meant to be a serious exploration of the sacred.
And regarding LOOKING. Of course we have to look, and SEE what is going on, and not burying the head in the sand or it will just continue. IF you are not aware of propaganda your not aware ...are you?


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14376545 - 04/30/11 10:58 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I mean look at this: the mystical influence of certain symbols. Hall wrote that:
"Symbols are oracular forms–mysterious patterns creating

vortices in the substances of the invisible world. They are
centers of a mighty force, figures pregnant with an awful
power, which, when properly fashioned, loose fiery
whirlwinds upon the earth."
– Manly P. Hall, Lectures on Ancient Philosophy,

I have not started this thread as some know-it-all who is lecturing. yes there are some things I want to share, but I personally am also learning all the time.  LIke for example that quote above. Do I believe it? I dunno. I want to explore that IF there is this elite occulist cabal in control of this world, what are they doing with this symbolism. That is not a 'narrow perspective'--it is an inquisitive mind wanting to find out.


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Offlineivander
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14376801 - 04/30/11 12:15 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Of course they are a power. They are poisoning everything. Haven't you noticed? They are starting wars and attacking innocent children, and spreading radiocative contamination which is a silent killer causing cancers and DNA damage for many years to come. Need I go on? It is REALLY happening, and I dont think it is a narrow perspective to want to talk about this and bring it to preoples attention regardless of how you judge it. Of course I get angry, upset, nervous, dont you? or are you some kind of machine who doesn't feel anything. the reason we feel is that we wont burn ourself, so nurture your feelings and find OUT why your angry and upset and nervous. The worst thing is feeling like that and not understanding why. It dont mean you wont also laugh, and have fun, but you cannot escape feeling these other feelings IF you are human, and or not a smack addict, or alcoholic, etc which tries to block uncomfortable feeling.




I've noticed. And I have said it. No need to go on, so you would't have to repeat your self. Its not narrow perspective to discuss what is happening, but what you concluded of it. Do you know why is that happening? NO I am not some kind of machine.. but making my self angry wont change a damn thing. Cuz I was angry, and I did nurtured my feelings, to find that exact same thing. My negative feeling only give power to the thing I struggle against.

You are projecting to much of your trip onto others. IF the worst thing for you is to feel like that and not know why, that is not necessarily valid for other people also. One thing is to block negative feelings, and other things is to accept them or dismiss them, or overcome them.

Quote:

So you WELCOME oppression in other words because you feel it is good for you/us? that is a weird position to take. That to me sounds defatest, and just accepting any only shit they throw at you. It is victim-talk. It is like a battered wife thinking her treatment is bringing out something good in her, and so keeps going back and bacik for more.
try dude to look further than your experience, or idealism, to see what it is doing in communities like Mexico for example where thousands are dying in the drug war.




Its not my decision to welcome such things or not to. I am just observing things as they are. So there is no acceptance, or victim talk or idealism. TO me it seems like you are in pursuit of such things, once again projecting your point of view onto my words. These people in mexico are dead and are dying, regardles of my opinion on that matter. Only thing I could do is not to buy these bloody drugs.

Quote:

I am not interested in people taking psychedelics for a buzz. Go to some other thread. This is meant to be a serious exploration of the sacred.
And regarding LOOKING. Of course we have to look, and SEE what is going on, and not burying the head in the sand or it will just continue. IF you are not aware of propaganda your not aware ...are you?




zzripz you should chill out a bit.. no one here is attempting to sabotage you or something alike. So why are you telling me to go to some other thread? I realize you are not interested in psy-buzz... im just saying you cant expect to have your expectations fulfilled just like that.. people are taking drugs for various reasons, and to expect those few who have same reasons as you to jump out and agree or illuminate your opinion is a bit unrealistic...

I am well aware of propaganda, but I dont give it any value.. cuz its not working on me. I have better things to do then to worry about future that will not happen.. and that is one of the valuable lessions i learned from shrooms :laugh:


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: ivander]
    #14377123 - 04/30/11 01:29 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Alright, you are explaining your world view and how you approach psychedelics. The OP is asking that, so I am not trying to beat you down...HOWEVER I do intend to say what I am thinking psychedelic experience is for me also.

I am also wondering what it IS? Feel me? What is it. Alright lets use this metaphor. Picture a waterway, and it has various dams. Some dams are partly caused by debris, and such so you get trickes of water going through, others are more built up. Now as I see psychedelic experience it--for the time of the trip--can blow dams away so there is a flow of water, or energy

So you MAY before you had your trip likes only one style of music, but you find yourself listening to an unfamiliar music you would never have dug or understood in your 'dammed' states, but NOW the sacred medicine has gushed away the resistance of that dam and the energy is allowed to flow and get into the musical flow

I am pretty weird person. I had a trip with my cousin and his girlfriend. He was an ex-surfer and a musician, she had been in a crash the year before and had worked on her leg, which could hqave been amputated, but was saved and then she worked on it with Reiki energy and was walking around in these dunes as though she'd never even been in a crash

Now we took some magic mushrooms, and my sousin I could still sense a resistance, and as the trip was comin on he took a pill for a headache. I wanted to get weird with the faeiries in this little wood of silver trees, and the girl was on my wavelength and was talking about fairy dust, but he was resisting this 'weird talk' and asked us to stop being weird LOL, so ---the moral of the story is that people can still resist when tripping. Resist what you say? Well they can feel they need to cling to a sense of normalcy, and not look or feeel 'mentally ill' There is a very powerful mental illness myth which strongly affects the western psyche

All this interests me.


Edited by zzripz (04/30/11 01:33 PM)


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OfflineHippieChick8
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14377636 - 04/30/11 03:14 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

zzripz said:
Quote:

Well they can feel they need to cling to a sense of normalcy, and not look or feeel 'mentally ill' There is a very powerful mental illness myth which strongly affects the western psyche.




I am interested in hearing what you have to say about the mental illness myth.  It seems that mental illness is becoming more common.  I just heard anti-depressants are the number one prescribed drugs in the U.S.


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Offlineivander
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14377698 - 04/30/11 03:25 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Nice analogy, although you see it as free energy flow. I understand that. But what IT is, is, IMO, different to all. You have water and dams.. some have rainbows and colors, tones and sounds... I think these entheogens things are forbidden out of simple fear. The fear of unknown, cuz it cant be categorized and summarized in a manual, tested in a lab with certain results.
One time on a shroom trip, I wanted to let go of this material world, I felt frustrated with everyday life, all the stupid bullshit and leave all this shit behind me, and dissipate. And then voice called me and asked, 'are you sure you want that, cuz if you do, lets go right away' and it was dead serious. So much serious, that it made me reconsider my wishes.
So much serious, that it made me realize why I fucking love this place, and that things are not hopeless as they seem, cuz if they were, there would be no reason for me to stay. All it takes is to be the change we wish to see. I wrote these words as supplements to your 'resist what' question... only to offer a perspective... that I was resisting normalcy of everyday life, and that would make me mentally ill in someones eyes. So this main OP question is so difficult to answer, cuz there is only one answer per one person, and everybody is different... so trying to put all the water of all the world trough that dam to flow is not imposible.. but its just not conceivable for ours tiny brains, imo :smile:


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14377758 - 04/30/11 03:37 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
zzripz said:
Quote:

Well they can feel they need to cling to a sense of normalcy, and not look or feeel 'mentally ill' There is a very powerful mental illness myth which strongly affects the western psyche.




I am interested in hearing what you have to say about the mental illness myth.  It seems that mental illness is becoming more common.  I just heard anti-depressants are the number one prescribed drugs in the U.S.




Thats because everyone is oppressed under this machine called civlization. This is why it is so important to explore and keep asking questions---DONT LET ANYONE TELL YOU TO STOP SEARCHING AND ASKING QUESTIONS! Which many will. Somehow the system maintains itself through propaganda which includes making the oppressed gatekeep the very system from and serious radical challenge and change. Feel me? And this is deliberate, because if it can be managed that the very victims/prisoners/salves (although they may deny it) themselves police the system then the ones at the top do not have to do it all themselves, as there is not many of them.it is a pyramid scheme after all.

A central controlling myth then is the mental illness myth, and what it means is that if you show signs of not being able to cope with this imposed reality--however this may manifest, such as deep sadness, having visions, etc-- then you are deemed 'mentally ill' and in need of 'treatment' usually with their toxic drugs, ETC etc.

A book I really recommend you to get and read is this one Caliban and the Witch: Women, the Body and Primitive Accumulation, by Silvia Federici
I am still reading it. Although I knew this and have done blogs about it, she goes into great depth about the mechanization of the body and mind. Ie., in order to enslave you more into their Capitlaist system they make you believe your a machine, and to do this they must dis-enchant nature--suck all the magic from nature. Now understand--they are not REALLY doing this, but their power of propaganda through many different avenues, 'history', religion, philosophy, theatre, literature, 'science', 'education', psychiatry, psychology, and so on all contribute to this myth, and make you feel that this is reality!

Now this is very personal for me, because wayy before I had read any books--well at the period i am gonna mention my fave read was Pan Horror books---I had psychedelics (LSD) when i was 15--a series of trips--and they blew away all the shit that had turned me from a little kid who was into a sense of the magic of nature into a harder kid with a sadistic streak who dissed nature throwing trash at it, smoking, swearing, and in love with my image of the big city.
So i KNOW that psychedelics for that young kid blew away those dams that culture, peer pressure etc had built up, because LSD opened my eyes to the magic of nature I had forgotten!

So this is where my passion comes from about this. I have met many people online claiming they are psychedelically experienced, and yet to my eyes still seem to have a resistance to stuff i want to explore.

The Lycaeum forums were a real freakin let down. They were the first psychedelic community i joined whenn I got online, and I found it very 'science' oriented--and bullying people if they were thought to be 'magically thinking' lol. A moderator there really would not concede that mental illness was a myth. Actually i got banned, and he followed me to another forum entheogenicdotcom and we had a 99 post exchange me and him where he was challenging me about it.

Psychedelics can dissolve the dams but then after allow your released liberated energy to carry on asking questions, and exploring, and dont let anyone stop you.


Edited by zzripz (04/30/11 03:43 PM)


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #14377821 - 04/30/11 03:50 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Apart from all your nonsense, narrow mindedness... the things you actually wrote that have any truth to them is basically what TM said in a lot of his lectures... but for some reason you think he's the opposite.  :tmckenna:

Dumb. :tard:

edit : if you think mental illnesses are a myth, then you have a mental illness. :ahahaha:


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Edited by foliocb (04/30/11 03:58 PM)


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14378030 - 04/30/11 04:36 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I looked up Myth of Mental Illness in Wiki, here is an excerpt:

"The Myth Of Mental Illness: Foundations of a Theory of Personal Conduct is a controversial book by Thomas Szasz and published in 1961. It is highly influential in the anti-psychiatry movement. In it, Szasz argues that mental illness is a social construct created by doctors, and the term can only be used as a metaphor given that an illness must be an objectively demonstrable biological pathology, whereas psychiatric disorders meet none of these criteria. Szasz says that what psychiatrists label mental illness is in fact nothing more than a deviation from the consensus reality or common morality.

He states that mental illness, madness and even many crimes are created or defined by cultural controls, morals and "real world" views of big science, religion and government, similar to heretics, pagans, and sinners before the industrial revolution."

I think that true mental illness is actually very rare.  But there is so much money to be made by using this label.  It's funny how "big science" and "religion" can agree with each other when it comes to controlling people.


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14378104 - 04/30/11 04:50 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Well if you wake up one day hearing voices in your head, i'd like to ask you if you think its still a myth. Might be psychosomatic or not, but psychosis is not something to be fucked with, I lost 2 friends to it and it looks like much more then a myth to me.


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14378290 - 04/30/11 05:29 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

No I am not saying hearing voices doesn't exist, or feeling desperately sad doesn't exist, or seeing terrifying visions doesn't exist, but that these manifestations of dis-ease are not biological diseases as the mental illness mythic model makes out.

Of course this is not easy to see because it is the central controlling myth. its not something someone can say and you can say yes or no; it is all tied up with the process of the worldview you are in, with the system. It is as close as the religion was in the previous paradigm--all pervasive. Taken for granted as reality.

EVERYTHING is driven by this myth. You are fucked over by 'education' by parents, peers, mass media, and the pressure to be 'normal' in an insane world.

When i was trying to get through to that moderator from the Lycauem who really thought he was intelligence personified, he couldn't dig when I mentioned that the WORLD was fukin insane.


Edited by zzripz (04/30/11 05:41 PM)


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14378640 - 04/30/11 07:01 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

See, I am more interested at the moment in --how do you see, feel reality?


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14381161 - 05/01/11 05:14 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

What is real? How do you define 'real'? :blueorred:


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14381279 - 05/01/11 06:29 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

foliocb said:
What is real? How do you define 'real'? :blueorred:




You showing a pic from The Matrix? Are YOU plugged in? Not yet? Right.

Now are you prepared to admit that you may be affected by propaganda?


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14382643 - 05/01/11 03:17 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Something tells me you took that post seriously and didn't know what I was quoting. You should go watch the movie :ass:


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14383172 - 05/01/11 05:15 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

you just have no respect really do you?


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14383397 - 05/01/11 06:01 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)



:glittershitz:

Keep in mind that just about everyone who offered their healthy and positive take in this thread was bashed by you every time, even though your thread implies a question from the start. Soemthing tells me you have a bloated ego and only made this thread for your own amusement and to regurgitate crap you read on the internets... which is what im doing back :ahahaha:


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14383498 - 05/01/11 06:16 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

achhhhhgk I seen The Matrix before you was a twinkle kiddio


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14383573 - 05/01/11 06:31 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

doesn't look like you got the message :shrug:

guess age really is just a number:goodluck:


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14383715 - 05/01/11 06:58 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

you-are-a-troll.

go a-way. before i do somehum i oughnta


Edited by zzripz (05/01/11 07:03 PM)


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14383908 - 05/01/11 07:34 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

:banhamster:


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #14386245 - 05/02/11 02:16 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
No I am not saying hearing voices doesn't exist, or feeling desperately sad doesn't exist, or seeing terrifying visions doesn't exist, but that these manifestations of dis-ease are not biological diseases as the mental illness mythic model makes out.




Actually there is a lot of evidence pointing towards some forms of schizophrenia being helped by Vitamin B supplements and similarly depression with Vitamin D; if you have an extremely unhealthy diet and are deficient in needed brain nutrients then it makes sense that you would start to experience detrimental forms of consciousness.  The body and the mind are inextricably connected: curing the one significantly helps the process of curing the other.


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: deCypher]
    #14386715 - 05/02/11 04:46 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Yes nutrition of course is VERY important, and yet some rich git with a very expensive diet can still be insane! So thers a danger to still be caught up in the mental illness myth by claiming food is the 'treatment'--feel me. it goes far deeper. it calls into question the whole paradigm we are in.

It is like saying to a Native American who you have incarcerated into a reservation, taking away all their meaning of life. Robbed them of their land community and indedendence and spirituality and then recommend they get their daily requirement of vitamin D!!


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14386864 - 05/02/11 06:22 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

:lolwut:


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14386905 - 05/02/11 07:18 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Psychedelics play with your vision, what you see, how you see it, what you consider real etc so they have the potential to reveal maya to you, but not direct Self realization.


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Edited by Chronic7 (05/02/11 07:46 AM)


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: Chronic7]
    #14388442 - 05/02/11 02:50 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Psychedelics play with your vision, what you see, how you see it, what you consider real etc so they have the potential to reveal maya to you, but not direct Self realization.




reveal "maya" to you? You mean the Eastern idea that reality is illusion?
So if I may rephrase your statement, you mean that psychedelic experience doesn't show you what is direct reality, but illusory? Got you right?

Well I definately do not agree with that.In my personal experience I feel that I am looking and feeling V E R Y directly. When I write about psychedelic experience I use that term 'direct/directly' a lot.

This means I am aware that in ordinary life we are caught up an illusory reality which is made from propaganda we are indoctrinated in. We are forced to go to school from very young , and that has an effect. So does all the mass media we are affected by, and also parental pressure and peer pressure, the mental illness myth, 'scientism', religion, philosophy, and that we end up instilling this propaganda.
So, when we take the entheogen all of that can be immediately blown away, and/or in flux, and all of a sudden you start seeing reality in deeper direct ways. So ie the politician you had trusted now looks ridiculous and you start giggling at his BS. Stuff like that.

The Eastern mysticism I have problems with. I recommend a book that exposes it called The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power

Of course 'illusion' is not the ONLY translation of that term,'maya'. Alan Watts would often translate it to mean 'play' and 'magic'. I prefer those. I think reality is VERY playful and magical. But once you start calling reality illusion you dissociate yourself from this mystery. That is what most of the new Age is about--looking with disdain at reality as though it is a trap, and a 3D illusion. This is because the New Age is very influenced by Eastern philosophy and occultism!


Edited by zzripz (05/02/11 02:54 PM)


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14388992 - 05/02/11 04:39 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

we already know you dont agree with anyone else on this subject  :rebeccablack:


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: foliocb]
    #14389167 - 05/02/11 05:16 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

foliocb, might I ask.. why do you care?

Quote:

zzripz said:The Eastern mysticism I have problems with. I recommend a book that exposes it called The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power

Of course 'illusion' is not the ONLY translation of that term,'maya'. Alan Watts would often translate it to mean 'play' and 'magic'. I prefer those. I think reality is VERY playful and magical.
But once you start calling reality illusion you dissociate yourself from this mystery. That is what most of the new Age is about--looking with disdain at reality as though it is a trap, and a 3D illusion. This is because the New Age is very influenced by Eastern philosophy and occultism!



This is your opinion perhaps, but I would argue that many people would not share it with you. Accepting reality as illusion is not dissociation from it, rather a dissociation of ego. Which is construct of this illusion, and that act is just defensive mechanism at work. IMO. When one is asking questions about himself or about other selves, its important first to know who is the self? Is it auto pilot ego, or something else?
Also when you look at psychedelic experiences, you can apply many filters to look upon it. And every other will give you different perspective. And that does not mean, that one is more or less truthful then another.


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: ivander]
    #14389697 - 05/02/11 06:33 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

This is your opinion perhaps, but I would argue that many people would not share it with you. Accepting reality as illusion is not dissociation from it, rather a dissociation of ego. Which is construct of this illusion, and that act is just defensive mechanism at work. IMO. When one is asking questions about himself or about other selves, its important first to know who is the self? Is it auto pilot ego, or something else?
Also when you look at psychedelic experiences, you can apply many filters to look upon it. And every other will give you different perspective. And that does not mean, that one is more or less truthful then another. Of course its my opinion :wink:






I am sure not everyone agrees with with every individual. I am just telling you my experience which feels right to me so i argue my position. IF you said something i felt right about i would let you know.

If you see reality as illusion that does seem to me as dis-assocation, yeah. I would feel better if you said it was BOTH real and illusory. Ie., it is a mystery we cant pin down. Agreed?

Quote:

When one is asking questions about himself or about other selves, its important first to know who is the self? Is it auto pilot ego, or something else?




can be both. We dont know what 'it' 'is'. What do you think?

Quote:

Also when you look at psychedelic experiences, you can apply many filters to look upon it.




Give us some examples what you mean.
here's what i THINK you mean. Set and Settings? Interpretations? Like you saying you cannot see directly and I say I feel i can?
So for example, I would posit that I can see peoples body language very clearly and so feel what they are thinking and feeling beneath their social mask. That to me is seeing directly. because when I see many of the youth today, and older, they are NOT seeing directly but are taken in by images, like with the 'celebrities' pop stars they scream at, politicians etc.

Quote:

And every other will give you different perspective. And that does not mean, that one is more or less truthful then another.




So your saying that every trip is unique? of course. but i dont agree where you say that one cannot be more meaningful for you than another.


Edited by zzripz (05/02/11 06:42 PM)


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14392948 - 05/03/11 07:12 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I am sure not everyone agrees with with every individual. I am just telling you my experience which feels right to me so i argue my position. IF you said something i felt right about i would let you know.

If you see reality as illusion that does seem to me as dis-assocation, yeah. I would feel better if you said it was BOTH real and illusory. Ie., it is a mystery we cant pin down. Agreed?



Its both, yes. But to one version of self its real, and to other it is illusion. That is why I am more concerned with identity of self first.. and with other things second. Is it mystery.. I would say no.

Quote:

can be both. We dont know what 'it' 'is'. What do you think?


Why do you say we? Again it is both, but imagine if you asked same question to some dude like Osho, or some other guru. I think I know what it is, for me. But what it could be for you, I cant say, nor do I know.

Quote:

Give us some examples what you mean.
here's what i THINK you mean. Set and Settings? Interpretations? Like you saying you cannot see directly and I say I feel i can?
So for example, I would posit that I can see peoples body language very clearly and so feel what they are thinking and feeling beneath their social mask. That to me is seeing directly. because when I see many of the youth today, and older, they are NOT seeing directly but are taken in by images, like with the 'celebrities' pop stars they scream at, politicians etc.



Example. Well we as individuals, in one way, represent a filters of observation of this dimensional/illusory reality.
We can look at the same picture at the same time, but we see two different things. Now expand this, to look at the picture while on shrooms. Apply emotional filter, judgmental filter, objective filter.. or subjective. Every time you will see something different. Look at it, with qualities of your ego. Or with your pure consciousness.

Quote:

So your saying that every trip is unique? of course. but i dont agree where you say that one cannot be more meaningful for you than another.


I dont recall saying anything about meaning. Its meaningful as much as you want it to be. :cool:


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: ivander]
    #14393699 - 05/03/11 12:10 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

How do you measure how much they help us see directly. I am sad to say that my experience at these forums with some of the members here doesn't give me great hope for the enlightening power of entheogens, cause they just seem silly, and no attention span, and diss serious subjects. I mean FUCK this is a forum, and aren;t ya supposed to explore things in a respectful way?
But there is this childish frivolousness in a world that is being attacked left right and centre. Indigenous people I think respect entheogens far more, but am not sure if they are into talking about them like this. They view them as SO sacred they dont want to talk all over the internet about such stuff.

I do. I respect indigenous people, but I am me and I like to explore (why i say this is not meaning ALL indigenous people, but an experience i had at a forum called New Age frauds and plastic shamans, appreantly run by native americans, but i got real sense of not being able to talk freely there and then got banned)

The cnetral thing for me is that given respect entheogens help us see thru propaganda DIRECTLY. This means that say your looking at a river, a waterfall, a flower, an insent, a dog, another person---you are seeing them in a direct way. Can i provide evidence for that? All I can say is that my experience, and others peoples experiences I have read. But i do know that some experiences interpretations i have trouble with---like the psychedelic transhumanists like Leary, and McKenna. For me psychedelics show nature in its sacred state. Ie., you are seeing in a polar-relational way.
HOWEVER after my first trips when 15, after I spent years searching to integrate and find help with interpreting my experiences. Someone else may have got caught up in a cult. Ie., i see even Buddhism as world-denying. Lots of hippies in the 60s went running to eastern beliefs after their trips. But I am more Pagan minded. That is seeing nature as magical and to be respected, so am attracted to permaculture etc

of course i promote my way of seeing things because i see throughout a lot of belief systems varying degrees of ignore-ance about the natural world. I think psychedelics can heal this, but we have to talk about it and choose set and settings so as to heal this. that is what i am saying


Edited by zzripz (05/03/11 12:11 PM)


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14393775 - 05/03/11 12:42 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
The cnetral thing for me is that given respect entheogens help us see thru propaganda DIRECTLY. This means that say your looking at a river, a waterfall, a flower, an insent, a dog, another person---you are seeing them in a direct way.




No matter what chemicals are coursing through your veins and no matter what ratio of neurotransmitters are currently active in your brain, your experience of the outside world will always be indirect: it's mediated by your sensory perceptions.  This is what differentiates the noumena from the phenomena... in Kant's terms the former is the "thing in itself" and can never be directly experienced; all we can ever get at is the phenomena (the thing as it appears to an observer).


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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: deCypher]
    #14394011 - 05/03/11 01:38 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

of course i promote my way of seeing things because i see throughout a lot of belief systems varying degrees of ignore-ance about the natural world. I think psychedelics can heal this, but we have to talk about it and choose set and settings so as to heal this. that is what i am saying



Then I wish you luck in your business. To me psychedelics were just one part of the journey, a necessary one. Now Im onto other things. But is it helpful to talk about it, yes. Is it necessary, to some yes to some no. Im sure you realized that by now.


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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: deCypher]
    #14394184 - 05/03/11 02:15 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
The cnetral thing for me is that given respect entheogens help us see thru propaganda DIRECTLY. This means that say your looking at a river, a waterfall, a flower, an insent, a dog, another person---you are seeing them in a direct way.




No matter what chemicals are coursing through your veins and no matter what ratio of neurotransmitters are currently active in your brain, your experience of the outside world will always be indirect: it's mediated by your sensory perceptions.  This is what differentiates the noumena from the phenomena... in Kant's terms the former is the "thing in itself" and can never be directly experienced; all we can ever get at is the phenomena (the thing as it appears to an observer).




That is exactl;y what i warn about. OK you got two things. You have experience, and then you got the interpetation of the experience. Now we all interpret for sure. But some interpretations are made out to be the truth. And this is the history of fukin philosophy!! Where do you want to begin? Plato? I challenge his philosophy. I also challenge the other 'thinkers' that have been chosen to INTERPRET our reality.



So, take a good look at him. A good direct look. What do you see. be honest. do it quick before you start remembering what he has told you to think. Do it before you read wht I am gonna say next. Do it as an EXPERIMENT! If you cheat you only cheat yourself. I just want you to look at his image here and tell me what you thought and felt.
OK done it? here's what I see looking at him. An upper class dude who is part of the establishment is what I see. What he says therefore MUST suit them, because tis THEy who make sure who the thinkers are that have INFLUENCE. And seein eeee tells us we cannot dirrectly experENCE reeeAIliteee direct, OY reckon he is workin for them SIRE!!


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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14394197 - 05/03/11 02:17 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

you don't know any objective truths and never will...


--------------------
^v^


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14394243 - 05/03/11 02:29 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
You have experience, and then you got the interpetation of the experience.




Sure, and your experience of the picture necessarily involves the mediation of your sensory organs and photons bouncing off the picture.  It is impossible to observe something without this.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: deCypher]
    #14395458 - 05/03/11 07:17 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
You have experience, and then you got the interpetation of the experience.




Sure, and your experience of the picture necessarily involves the mediation of your sensory organs and photons bouncing off the picture.  It is impossible to observe something without this.




Well its weirder than THAT. check this:


Really we dont KNOW. But some people will harp on about some dead philosopher who used to wear a wig and talk real posh and be a fave of the opper class dominators and allow this long dead dude dictate to them how they understand reality. Why?? I dont do it that way. I trust my SELF as a flowing learning experience. Like I say, when I have psychedelic experience I am seeing directly--and this is not static either. Seeing directly is infinite. REALITY is infinte. thers no 'oooh i see direct. oh shit i've hit rock bottom'. It is going in in in in in to meaning which is not dead but alive. Living. But what these philosophers usually do is push a load of words at you that not only keep you in that abstracty maelstrom, but also insist that their take on reality is THE way of understanding reality. And then what you do is believe this propaganda and diss your OWN experience which is living.


Edited by zzripz (05/03/11 07:20 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What IS Psychedelic Experience for You? [Re: zzripz]
    #14407602 - 05/05/11 11:32 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Just because someone's eyes are "open" doesn't mean they're looking in the same direction as you are.  Or that you are looking towards truth.




Or they are?

How can you tell though when someone's on the right or wrong track?




According to Susan Zannos's book Human Types: Essence and Enneagram, I am a "King of Hearts," so I can only answer from this vector. The King of Hearts is the 'Intellectual portion of the Feeling Function.' When all the mentation is said and done, I follow the 'path with heart,' the most compassionate way, even if it cuts at my own desires. This fits well with my Intuition and faith, that Compassion is THE gyro-scope of human development, regardless of what my personal needs and aversions are. Compassion transcends our selfish egoic-mind, and so Jesus and Buddha are the major Western and Eastern paradigmatic examples for living at the pinnacle of Compassion. Those are (whether mythical OR historical) the exemplars of the furthest reaches of human development, and my guides worthy of following.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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