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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V
    #19579460 -

What would it take for you to change your belief?

Skeptic: Solid evidence.

Believer: Nothing could sway me.


Hmmm, which group is the more open-minded?


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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 4
    #19579693 -

This isn't the debate forums OrgoneConclusion.

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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: teknix] * 1
    #19579731 -

Do not all threads start with a topic or a position?

A premise is not a debate.


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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19579800 -

In my perspective its the other way around.

Skeptic- Nothing could sway me(not really).

Believer- Solid Evidence.

There is really no proper way to categorize people in groups. Even if you can do that, your logical scientific mind will not achieve 100% accuracy, never.

I was skeptic when I was younger, and I knew also some people who were. But with process we changed to be "believers". That does not mean I believe in flying spaghetti monster, or every BS im presented with.
And what took for me to change. Well, there is really no one single thing. Life is a puzzle, and when you put some pieces together, you get the picture, if you are enough open minded to look at it and accept it, you change.


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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19579801 -

In arguments.

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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: ivander]
    #19579820 -

Quote:
I was skeptic when I was younger, and I knew also some people who were. But with process we changed to be "believers". That does not mean I believe in flying spaghetti monster, or every BS im presented with.


If you do not believe everything presented to you, then you are still a skeptic.

But here is the deal: ask a Mormon or a Muslim (or almost an True Believer or Fundamentalist) what it would take for them to give up or alter their belief(s) and the answer will almost always be "Nothing!" An inability to incorporate new facts is the hallmark of close-mindedness.


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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19579830 -

I think that many skeptics still believe objective evidence, I may be wrong though.
But subjective evidence is something that I can be totally sure of, something that I can really trust, but not always, as I may be seeing own ignorance.
It's hard to really convince people to believe certain things, because everyone sees things differently and what they see may be true for them, but false for others.
Ultimately skeptics are also believers, fundamentally we all believe in facts and evidence because someone from their perspective found it to be so.

Just throwing out something.

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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19579846 -

Orgone, are you using what others agree upon as fact, or do you know it for yourself? Experience is how you know something for yourself. A lot of these people may have experienced a sort of synchronicity or coincidence while trying, and embraced it.

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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: teknix]
    #19579886 -

Every person ever tested for paranormal abilities under controlled condition has failed. The number that have changed their minds? Close to zero.

When large scale tests were done on prayer and in accord with the faithful and the test failed, how many gave up their belief? Almost zero.

When Crop Circles were shown a man-made circle 'expert cereologists' 'certified' the circle to be genuine (as in not man-made). Then when presented with a clear videotape from start to finish, only one of the 3 cereologists changed their mind.

This is evident in every single field of belief wherein people invest emotionally in an idea.

There is no Search for Truth merely a search for a way to justify an irrational belief.


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (02/17/14 01:49 PM)

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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19579889 -

Do people still believe that 2012 was the end of the world?

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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: HeartAndMind]
    #19579901 -

HeartAndMind said:
I think that many skeptics still believe objective evidence, I may be wrong though.
But subjective evidence is something that I can be totally sure of, something that I can really trust, but not always, as I may be seeing own ignorance.
It's hard to really convince people to believe certain things, because everyone sees things differently and what they see may be true for them, but false for others.
Ultimately skeptics are also believers, fundamentally we all believe in facts and evidence because someone from their perspective found it to be so.

Just throwing out something.


That is why science requires third-party verification and repeatability - to eliminate bias.


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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19579907 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Every person ever tested for paranormal abilities under controlled condition has failed. The number that have changed their minds? Close to zero.

When large scale tests were done on prayer and in accord with the faithful and the test failed, hbow many gave up their belief? Almost zero.

When Crop Circles were shown a circle 'expert cereologists' 'certified' the circle to be genuine (as in not man-made). Then when presented with a clear videotape from start to finish, only one of the 3 cereologists changed their mind.

This is evident in every single field of belief wherein people invest emotionally in an idea.

There is no Search for Truth merely a search for a way to justify an irrational belief.



I can dig what you're saying, such beliefs can really cloud our seeing of truth.
But now question, what do you assume by truth?

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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: HeartAndMind]
    #19579917 -

And paranormal.

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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: HeartAndMind]
    #19579925 -

Truth as in reality and not imagination.


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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19579933 -

As in objective or subjective?

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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19579939 -

Refusal to see the differentiation is plain ignorance.

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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19579945 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
That is why science requires third-party verification and repeatability - to eliminate bias.


But science can only reveal truth about the world, our waking reality, which is real only while we are 'awake' or here. In that way I can't take it as really true.

Science also mostly points that we are the body, the brain and death is the end. Isn't it hard to live believing in it?
Most spiritual disciplines take you to the place, where you have no beliefs about anything, yet you are here. I think it's really powerful state.

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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: teknix]
    #19579958 -

teknix said:
As in objective or subjective?


Some soldiers in every war have talismans or protective rituals to ensure their safety. (subjective)

They die the same as the 'unprotected'. (objective)

Never get why so many struggle with the difference.


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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19579972 -

So you are talking objectively. Now try to consider the perspective subjectively, what happened to some of them upon death is different than what happened to others.

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Re: Skeptics vs. Believers - Part V [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19579977 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Truth as in reality and not imagination.


I agree, I'm wondering what is reality for you though? Just people may have different meanings of concepts.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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