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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
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Love your country.
    #1759147 - 07/29/03 10:45 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Has the concept of Patriotism finally replaced the concept of obedience to god as the new #1 mechanism of control over the masses?

Label certain beliefs and actions as patriotic or unpatriotic and the masses will more than likely follow suit by doing or not doing said thing.

This struck me earlier when I read that on Bob Hope's 100th Birthday Bush had created the Bob Hope American Patriot Award for civilians showing "extraordinary love of their country". Good for Bob!

Its such a buzzword these days it seems to be everywhere, and this is from my perspective on that little bit of rock off the coast of Europe.

So US shroomerites, is the whole patriot(ism) thing really rocking like an out of control hurricane over there at the moment or am I just using random news items to try and fit the world to how I see it?





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Always Smi2le


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Love your country. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1759154 - 07/29/03 10:49 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

It's perfectly fine to love your country, but at the same time it is also perfectly fine (and common sense) to fear your government.

ie: I love my country but fear my government.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,718
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Love your country. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1759156 - 07/29/03 10:50 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

There is always a surge of patriotism after an event such as 9-11, iraq, or even an earthquake (though not as much)

Those who are strongly pro or anti patriotic will be unchanged by these events. It's the masses in the middle who can be swayed. Even then, for only as long as it takes to change the channel.

Frankly, it's embarrassing how little most people (not just americans although many here seem especially out of it) know about world events.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Love your country. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1759174 - 07/29/03 11:01 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think thats what im getting at, this new brand of patriotism seems to be linked to the idea that government and country are the same entity.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Love your country. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1759184 - 07/29/03 11:06 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i believe they are seperate but there are many on the right that even surprise me with their ability to close their eyes when they know in their heart and mind that the government is wrong. I think this is just the "Vocal" right and not close to a majority. The same can be said for the left, with their "hatred" towards this country and NOT the government.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Love your country. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1759193 - 07/29/03 11:13 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Obvioulsy you realise that most of the left hate the government and not the country?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Love your country. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1759200 - 07/29/03 11:20 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i know but like the "vocal" right the vocal left chooses those 1 percenters to represent them ie: protectors throwing rocks, chairs, etc. If both sides looked down on their respective "fringe" there wouldn't be these stereotypes.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Love your country. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1759204 - 07/29/03 11:24 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Vocal fringes always stand out I suppose. The same problem is rife in the Palestine-Israel problem.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Love your country. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1759205 - 07/29/03 11:25 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

exactly..


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineGernBlanston
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Registered: 05/28/03
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Re: Love your country. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1759280 - 07/29/03 12:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

There is all the difference in the world between "Patriotism" and "Nationalism" - and, unfortunately, rabid acceptance of the latter is being confused with the former. Lemme see if I can find that article...

Crap - I can't find it. There was a great article written around July 4th; I'm almost sure it was by Maureen Farrell, but I didn't bookmark it. Anyway, it was a great article detailing the difference between the two.

Nationalists: Believe that their country is right, and that a show of strength will backup that right, and they will support that showing regardless of the outcome or consequences. Believe that anyone who doesn't support the country's policies and decisions therefore hates the country and is "Free to Get the Hell Out".

Patriots: Believe that their country is great because of the ideals, govornmental theories, and laws of their country; and that the adherance to these ideals in the face of adversity is what makes their country great. Believe that anyone who support their country blindly is mostly just an idiot, but in the US, their right to be an idiot is what we're all about, so that's okay too.

That's oversimplifying things a bit, but you get the jist.

I hate this administration; I hate it's policies, it's big-business proactivity, the way it shits on the little people, the lies, the deceit, and the corrupt, small minded people that make it. But I LOVE my country.

And that's why I get so goddamn mad.


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
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Re: Love your country. [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1759643 - 07/29/03 03:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I dont think there is anything wrong with patriotism, if it is indeed...true patriotism.

patriotism is just a love for the land you live on and the people around you.

Of course, there are generally two types of patriotism, Dominator patriotism and under-dog patriotism. Dominator patriotism, ie- England, American, german, tends to be patriotism just for the sake of patriotism. While underdog patriotism, ie- Canada, Ireland, Zimbabwe, is patriotism that is used as a defense in the face of imperialism.

not to say that americans and the english cant adhere to healthy, non-aggressive forms of patriotism.


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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Love your country. [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1759653 - 07/29/03 03:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dominator patriotism, ie- England, American, german, tends to be patriotism just for the sake of patriotism. While underdog patriotism, ie- Canada, Ireland, Zimbabwe, is patriotism that is used as a defense in the face of imperialism.




those weren't very good examples at all. People keep trying to change the meaning of the word. It's not a "my country is better than your country patriotically." That's absurd. There are wacko patriots (should be called nationalists) in every country. Inventing cute terms like "underdog" makes no sense whatsoever.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
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Re: Love your country. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1759713 - 07/29/03 03:58 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

umm...no, the term of underdog makes perfect sense when a massively powerful culture is attempting to dominate your smaller, less powerful culture.

I never said patriotism meant "my culture is better than your culture" where did you read that?

it comes down to this though, for Irish people, theyre culture has served as a defense mechanism against English Hegemony. The same goes for canadian. Thusly, for under-dog cultures...patriotism serves a purpose!


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Offlineshakta
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Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: Love your country. [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1759715 - 07/29/03 03:59 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

What do you mean the same goes for Canadien?


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

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Re: Love your country. [Re: shakta]
    #1759732 - 07/29/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Canadian culture his heavily focused on differentiating ourselves from americans, because we dont want to be absorbed by the american empire.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Love your country. [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1759735 - 07/29/03 04:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

umm...no, the term of underdog makes perfect sense when a massively powerful culture is attempting to dominate your smaller, less powerful culture.




then you're not talking aboot patriotism at all. What are you talking aboot then?

Quote:

I never said patriotism meant "my culture is better than your culture"




where did i say this? Culture has nothing to do with it.



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

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Re: Love your country. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1759740 - 07/29/03 04:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

sorry, i meant to say country.

yes i know what im talking aboot. Do you know what you are talking about???? make a fucking point!

patriotism is love of ones country, yes? please dissect my argument properly, or shut the fuck up.





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OfflineAzmodeus
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Registered: 11/27/02
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Re: Love your country. [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1759760 - 07/29/03 04:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Actually im from vancouver, and its chinesse culture more than american that is dominant here.  There is no culture in canada, because we are so multicultural... :tongue:

Even playing hockey, and drinking beer, don't qualify to most, despite what popular opinion may believe! :wink:


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

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Re: Love your country. [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1759769 - 07/29/03 04:16 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, there isnt a massive dominant culture in canada, but american hegemoney makes a canadian more aware of small canadian cultural nuances ( like Zed and Eh).


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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
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Re: Love your country. [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1759770 - 07/29/03 04:16 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

what about poutein?

of course, I probably spelled that wrong.


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