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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: What I love about America... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1531495 - 05/08/03 06:08 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

you would notice the word, 'founded.'

I noticed it. Now could you display the faintest degree of mental competence and make a point?



No surprise that you are unable to get the point. The point is that the U.S. was not founded on slavery and oppression.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (05/08/03 06:09 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: What I love about America... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1531500 - 05/08/03 06:09 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

the point is that america was not founded on the ideals of slavery and oppression of the natives.

is it possible that perhaps certain actions taken by the united states at different points in its history may contradict the values it was founded on?

christianity was founded on love and peace, no?


Edited by mushmaster (05/08/03 06:23 PM)


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: What I love about America... [Re: Evolving]
    #1531507 - 05/08/03 06:13 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

No surprise that you are unable to get the point.

Seeing as you have no point it's hardly surprising.

The point is that the U.S. was not founded on slavery and oppression.

Could you define what you understand by the term "founded"?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: What I love about America... [Re: ]
    #1531549 - 05/08/03 06:25 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

is it possible that perhaps the actions taken by the united states at different points in its history may contradict the values it was founded on?

Is it possible the values you found something on are a little different to the values you actually put into practise? Which has more meaning - the values someone wrote on a peice of paper or the values practised in reality?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: What I love about America... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1531607 - 05/08/03 06:45 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Could you define what you understand by the term "founded"?



From yourdictionary.com,
found
tr.v. found?ed, found?ing, founds
1. To establish or set up, especially with provision for continuing existence: The college was founded in 1872.
2. To establish the foundation or basis of; base: found a theory on firm evidence.

Follow these links to read the founding documents of the U.S.,

The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies

The Articles of Confederation


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinebarfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
Male

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Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 8,670
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Re: What I love about America... [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1531791 - 05/08/03 07:49 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Read the book Animal Farm and 1984, both by George Orwell, what a brilliant man.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: What I love about America... [Re: barfightlard]
    #1531854 - 05/08/03 08:13 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

johnny respect: note to whiny-liberals - America had more white slaves brought over from Europe than we bought from other Africans in Africa

i'm really interested in your sources behind this statement.


once again we revert to semantics.....now we are arguing over the meaning of "founded", i guess this is my fault, because I wasnt reffering to the literal meaning of founded, I was reffering to the culture that america was born from. and....if we are talking about the literal "founding" than we are reffering to the constitution, correct?

and did the original constitution not declare that a black man was 3/5ths a white man?

what I find to be the most amusing point about some of your arguments is that you believe that americans know more about america's history than non-americans. For me, from an external non-american perspective, this is total bullshit. Because Americans are brainwashed by patriotism and misinformation, not all americans....but many. Many american's actually beleive that america is the capital of the "free world", and this is simply incorrect. America is without a doubt, the most oppresive country in the "free world".

get over it, the whole world can see it but you. The ideals of the american dream are not a reality.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


Edited by atomikfunksoldier (05/08/03 08:33 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: What I love about America... [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1532063 - 05/08/03 09:10 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

and did the original constitution not declare that a black man was 3/5ths a white man?

you obviously have no idea what the 3/5 compromise was.

what I find to be the most amusing point about some of your arguments is that you believe that americans know more about america's history than non-americans.

why does that amuse you?

For me, from an external non-american perspective, this is total bullshit. Because Americans are brainwashed by patriotism and misinformation, not all americans....but many. Many american's actually beleive that america is the capital of the "free world", and this is simply incorrect. America is without a doubt, the most oppresive country in the "free world".

i don't think ANYONE in this thread has made the claim that america currently operates itself by the principles it was founded under.

i don't think ANYONE (except maybe JR) has tried to make the case that 'america is the shining beacon of democracy and freedom amidst a black sea of oppression and despair'... blah blah blah...

we're not talking about what democracy has unfortunately allowed the people and politicians of america to slowly do to the principles it was founded under.

we're talking about the principles THEMSELVES, which you clearly have no idea about.

here, i'll try to make it simple:

anyone with an understanding of the principles that america was founded under and a clear perspective of what has actually happened in the past 200 some years knows that these two things are quite different.

do you know ANYTHING about the political ideologies that prompted the colonies to break away from england and form the sort of government they were trying to form?


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: What I love about America... [Re: ]
    #1532083 - 05/08/03 09:16 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

"anyone with an understanding of the principles that america was founded under and a clear perspective of what has actually happened in the past 200 some years knows that these two things are quite different."


So you talk the talk but don't walk the walk huh?


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Anonymous

Re: What I love about America... [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #1532088 - 05/08/03 09:18 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

So you talk the talk but don't walk the walk huh?

nope. don't blame me, i vote libertarian.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: What I love about America... [Re: ]
    #1532172 - 05/08/03 09:48 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

all right, the problem here is that we are have different arguments.

my argument is that social conditions prevailed over these principles, which you support, i wasnt debating the principles themselves,

and if I have no idea about the 3/5 compromise was, then enlighten me, because as i understand, it was made so that black votes were worth less than white votes, am i wrong?

if i am right, then it illustrates that the principles themselves are faulty to begin with, and consequently, those who wrote it did not want a free america, but a controlled america.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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Anonymous

Re: What I love about America... [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1532208 - 05/08/03 10:02 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

in the house of representatives, states are given a certain number of seats based on the size of their population.

some of the southern states wanted to count slaves as a part of their population so as to have more representation in the house.

some of the northern states rejected this idea.

it wasn't about voting or representation for slaves. it was more about representation for the rich white men that owned them.

about slavery, the southern states would not have joined the union if slavery was not permitted. there were men vehemently opposed to the establishment of slavery, who tried to incorporate emancipation into the constitution, but they were blocked by the southerners. it was a compromise that had to be made.


Edited by mushmaster (05/08/03 10:03 PM)


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: What I love about America... [Re: zeta]
    #1532221 - 05/08/03 10:06 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

 




A picture IS worth a thousand words!!!  lol, shit im falling off my chair... :grin:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
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Re: What I love about America... [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1532228 - 05/08/03 10:12 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

OK, are you all mentall retarded? 




:smirk:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 3,495
Loc: SItting on the Group W Be...
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Re: What I love about America... [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1532765 - 05/09/03 01:12 AM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

America had more white slaves brought over from Europe than we bought from other Africans in Africa.




While I am fully aware of the white slavery that was perpetuated in this country (primarily the Scots-Irish I do believe), I have never seen any shred of evidence which supports your claim. Do you have any numbers, facts, links, ie: proof?


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: What I love about America... [Re: Evolving]
    #1532904 - 05/09/03 01:42 AM (18 years, 6 days ago)

1. To establish or set up, especially with provision for continuing existence

And your point is?

The principles someone writes on a peice of paper are the principles the country must follow?

One of the first lines says:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Do you believe these principles have any basis in reality? If so you must believe the indians were politely asked to leave their land and quietly left. I can assure you this isn't the case. Read a history book.

Don't confuse reality with fantasy.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: What I love about America... [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1533469 - 05/09/03 04:21 AM (18 years, 6 days ago)

I thought you were done here


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: What I love about America... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1544701 - 05/13/03 11:43 AM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

And your point is?

The principles someone writes on a peice of paper are the principles the country must follow? ...



You REALLY have trouble understanding a point don't you? The U.S. was NOT founded on slavery and oppression. That's it, what happened AFTER that is not what it was founded on. Get it?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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