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General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Underneath the Mind
    #15759930 -

The mind is in the skies, always out there, restless beyond description. What is underneath the mind, nay who? Who is Here. Now. who breathes deeply through the belly, who is at peace and content? Underneath the mind, Who has his beingness there?

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Re: Underneath the Mind [Re: PowerPlants] * 2
    #15760056 -

i think as soon as you assert a subject or agent behind it, you've lost yourself to the clouds again (lost your view of emptiness)

that's why i think non-affirmative negations (such as not this, not that, etc) are more useful than affirmative ideas (like the Self) - but this is probably also a matter of personal preference.


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Re: Underneath the Mind [Re: deff]
    #15760139 -

It is only words pointing to the wordless. One asks who and realizes there is no who, just emptiness. The ego is no longer a problem when its perceived as arising out of emptiness, its only an ego of folly, an unreal joke.

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Re: Underneath the Mind [Re: PowerPlants]
    #15760377 -

Is it possible to look without the mind to interpret what is seen? Asking "who" when examining is a useful way to use the mind from the right perspective. But I'm with deff when he says it isn't the only way.

Looking wisely :thumbup:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Underneath the Mind [Re: Kickle]
    #15760593 -

---Is it possible to look without the mind to interpret what is seen?

It sure isn't, I don't look with it, I feel the inner feeling, which leads to the unified state, nay it is the unified in a denser vibration, the more attention is put on it the quicker the vibration until it subsides into the vibrationless sensationless state, in my experience.

--- I'm with deff when he says it isn't the only way

No doubt there are many many ways that this tiny little ego cannot fathom. In the end they all bring one inward, and asking the mind who? silences it, and it then sinks into beingness. I used to think it was a behind and in front of sort of thing, where I had to go backwards behind. Really it is an up down sort of thing, the mind tries to float over beingness on its own, but eventually it will sink into its source, the heart.

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Re: Underneath the Mind [Re: PowerPlants]
    #15763135 -

Yeah, asking 'Who?' is in no way a question that demands a mental answer like an affirmative 'I am the Self', it's a question to be asked but never answered in the conceptual realm, the only answer is the light within & even then the question shouldn't be given up.
The question will eventually destroy itself, Ramana used the analogy of the stick used for stirring a funeral pyre, the stick itself is consumed by the fire

So it is really exactly the same act of meditation as the Vedantic 'neti-neti' (not this, not that), or the Tibetan meditation of asking 'is this what i am?' and Buddha also taught it in  the anatta suttas in the Pali, so it is not a method or practice that belongs to one man or one religion, it's the most universally applicable as each being in the entire universe has the 'sense of existence' & can evolve to have the conscious capacity to investigate what this 'existence' is by questioning their identity

I feel that ALL spiritual practices are unconscious methods of doing just that, you can feel you are chanting a mantra, concentrating on a candle, meditating on you chakras, performing a circumbulation around a shrine, pushing the physical body to its limits through yoga etc... it is all an unconscious shedding of ones identity


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Re: Underneath the Mind [Re: Chronic7]
    #15763256 -

The Chronic said:
it is all an unconscious shedding of ones identity



well spiritual practice can actually be a fully conscious shedding of identity. after all, who is practicing if not consciousness?


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check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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Re: Underneath the Mind [Re: g00ru]
    #15763304 -

oojijimoo said:
The Chronic said:
it is all an unconscious shedding of ones identity



well spiritual practice can actually be a fully conscious shedding of identity. after all, who is practicing if not consciousness?


I was referring to sadhanas other than directly questioning identity, mantras, hatha yoga, chakra meditation, circumbulation of shrines etc...

It's a conscious shedding of identity if you are directly questioning identity as you are consciously sifting through the illusion of identity, but any other spiritual practice is an unconscious shedding of identity/ego, ie you can practice them but not actually be aware of what your doing, why your doing it, it just feels good


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Edited by Chronic7 (02/05/12 08:58 AM)

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Re: Underneath the Mind [Re: Chronic7]
    #15765257 -

what if you explore dreams so deeply that the boundaries of your ego slowly but surely dissolve and expand, then wouldn't that sort of blur the line?


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check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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Re: Underneath the Mind [Re: g00ru]
    #15767793 -

in my view it would still be an unconscious shedding of identity

im not saying its bad, i dont mean 'unconscious' like 'unconscious living vs conscious living'
i just mean whether you are aware or unaware that your practice is to shed identity
both methods may lead to the same state, but one is direct/conscious the other indirect/unconscious

when your main practice is the direct method of questioning identity, then the other methods can become conscious ways of shedding identity, but without the foundation of self knowledge they are all unconscious methods


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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