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Re: Born agian Christains..... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1482729 -

Here you go:
--
Mark 9:38-41 (NIV)
38 "Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
39 "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me,
40 for whoever is not against us is for us.
41 I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.
--


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Re: Born agian Christains..... [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1482845 -

Thanks for the backup!!


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Born agian Christains..... [Re: mr freedom]
    #1483058 -

You do not state facts, you state opinions based upon faulty and incomplete understanding of the phenomenon. One must take the entire historical time line in order to see the origination of a movement, as well as its corruption (inquisitions, crusades, etc.) in order to understand the original and true value which is still there, howsoever covered in dross.

You might consider reading something by John Shelby Spong, former Episcopal Archbishop of Newark, New Jersey, who has written a number of beautifully lucid and readable books that tie rational thought to non-rational faith. I recommend 'Liberating the Gospel: Reading the Bible With Jewish Eyes.'

As to "transrational," Ken Wilber's books use the term repeatedly, as do other transpersonal theorists. The prefix -trans, indicates 'going beyond,' and the transrational refers to a higher logic that derives from higher functions of consciousness than the subject-object dichotomy upon which thr rational function is based. A transcending of opposites - a transcendental state of awareness is an 'order' of being from which human actions can still derive. One example of the comparison is the moral precept: 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.' This is based on a kind of 'moral logic' or judgement or evaluation based on sensory perception for the most part. Fair is fair.

The higher or transrational 'logic' - 'Love thine enemies,' is not based upon anything rational, and does not make sense from a rational perspective. It DOES make sense however, from a transcendental perception that all human beings derive their moment-to-moment existence from the same Being - the perception that we are all ONE in Reality, not the separate beings that we appear to the senses and rational mind. From the latter perspective, hurting another being is synonymous to hurting oneself. It is not easy to be-in-the-world with the latter perspective. Few, if any 'individuals' reflect this perception back.

De-programming requires knowledge of the process, and must ethically be done with the subject's consent. It must also be done by one whose motive is Compassion, and whose Compassion is grounded in the Transcendental - not in one's ego-game.

Whatever else religion may be defined as, at bottom, it refers to an acknowledgement of an Ultimate Reality - the Really Real. Denial of Reality is definitionally mental illness. You may not care for how a specific religion conveys its particular way to contact the Real, but disagreement with specific verbal formulations does not mean that those formulations are lies. When Jesus is alledged to have said 'I am the vine, you are the branches,' only a moron would think that the Man was calling himself a plant. It is easy to dismiss all that one does not understand, or attempt to understand. Spiritual Truths, deriving from Holy traditions [i.e., religions] have given me new life and passion for Compassion and Wisdom. They guide me at every turn and lend harmony, meaning and deep abiding peace to my existence. When misunderstood and abused, even benevolent things can assume destructiveness, but that does not make religion inherently evil, and it is incredibly short-sighted to say that.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Born agian Christains..... [Re: mr freedom]
    #1484027 -

I state facts that are not in dispute.

What a self-righteous position you've put yourself in. What exactly makes your beliefs a 'fact' that cannot be disputed with?

Religion seeks to strip the RATIONAL mind from the human being. Religion's twist ANY spiritual belief into method(s) of controling humans.

Are you implying religion has the self awareness needed to carry out such malicious acts of 'mass control'?


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Re: Born agian Christains..... [Re: Zahid]
    #1484569 -

Don't change the subject. The subject of this post is about losing a friend because of that friends lack of sound reasoning skills. I posted a rational argument that can be used to bring about a RATIONAL look at, said friend's, new found religious experience.

If you wish to debate my "facts" then we'll have to do it in some other thread.
My RATIONAL responses do not make me self-righteous; they make me correct in my analysis.

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Re: Born agian Christains..... [Re: mr freedom]
    #1484632 -

Changing the subject? You're the one who started ranting about religion (I thought this was about someone's extremist friend).

Now, can you please answer my questions?


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Edited by Zahid (04/23/03 01:05 AM)

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Re: Born agian Christains..... [Re: Left Nut City]
    #1484681 -

Read it - some worthwhile stuff to think about therein - but I' still believe in a Deity.
Ah well.


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"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."

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Re: Born agian Christains..... [Re: DiarYofaMadmaN]
    #1484711 -

He's not a very good christian if he refuses to talk to you. Christians are supposed to try to spread christianity, not just keep it to themselves, and refuse to associate with people who aren't christian. It's how people become "born again christians" after all, for the most part..


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Why, sirrah, why may a caudled fillhorse be deemed the brother to a hiren candle in the night? Withal, because a candle may be greased, yet a fillhorse be without a fat argier!

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Re: Born agian Christains..... [Re: CeeEssGee]
    #1484763 -

True - often, those who undergo conversions hold onto bit pieces of their experience - such as 'removing yourself from the world' and consider it the whole picture.

Your friend may come back into your orbit someday, but til then, he's either out of your range or a rough ride for trying to remain his friend.


--------------------
"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."

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