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OfflineNiamhNyx
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born to the wrong generation?
    #7889799 - 01/16/08 07:17 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Does anyone else ever feel like they were born to the wrong generation? That what they desire in life is lacking in the present era? I want to live in a revolutionary, vibrantly experimental time... but unfortunately I find myself alive in what is perhaps the most complacent time and place to have ever existed. A product exists to fill every possible desire and people's authentic desires are recuperated by the marketplace instead of explored more directly/honestly. A lot of people are horrified by the present political situation, but there is no movement like we saw in the 30's or the 60's. Why? For all you old timers who were around for the 60's-- what do you think happened to diffuse that energy and momentum?


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Invisibleadrug

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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7889834 - 01/16/08 07:26 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

If they reinstated the draft in the US, I bet there would be a movement. In the 60's, people protested the war because they were forced to fight.

Not that I want the US government to do that, but it might force some change...or it might be a terrible mess and tear this country apart.

My mom used to tell me that I should've switched places with her, somehow. She was in her 20's during the 60's but she was the married housewife of an army lieutenant in the midwest, and didn't experience any of the things that I would have, had I been alive in the 60's in her place.

But I'm rather glad that I'm alive now instead, with all the great technological advances and social advances. Granted we still have a long way to go, but every little bit gets us that much closer. The world has changed dramatically just over the last hundred years, and its exciting (and somewhat scary) to think about what it will become over the next hundred years.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7889850 - 01/16/08 07:29 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

I wonder about this myself. Maybe some are able to express their authentic desires through the system? Doesn't seem like it to me though - most people I see on the subway look apathetic or depressed. People have been programmed to accept what they are given. I feel a lot of people are not educated or simply accept things as "the way it is" even if everything inside them is telling them something is off.

Or maybe I'm just projecting? Sometimes I'm fine with the system - it provides me with entertainment and provides nourishment for my physical senses and physical needs. Then there are times where I walk outside and I just feel this overwhelming sense that the world sucks and most people suck. The two are kind of separate thoughts I suppose, but society IS a collection of people after all.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7889911 - 01/16/08 07:40 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Most of the time I'm perfectly 'happy'. I have a pretty decent life, good friends, good food, a lot of love and joy to be explored. But then I have pangs of longing, of loss, of sorrow for the momentum of the society in which I live. For the increasingly rapid destruction of the wild world. For the ever expanding network of surveillance and repression. I long to live in a generation that stands up to this instead of living on our knees. The phrase "You can't be neutral on a moving train" is striking. We are barrelling along on a train that has set it's tracks straight in the direction of a brick wall. But how many of us are struggling to bring the train to a halt, to pull a track switch to set us along another course? I want to commit my life to stopping the train, but it can't be done alone. It can't be done in isolation. I long for the sort of popular movement previous generations experienced - and I long for a movement that is better able to withstand the pressure of recuperation. I'm not willing to be resigned.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7890056 - 01/16/08 08:06 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

That's an interest phrase, never heard of it before. Funny that you mention it, because it ties in with a lot of my beliefs about Riding The Subway. The Subway to me perfectly represents the repression you talk about. When I walk into a subway train downtown, I joke to myself that I've just entered limbo.

I mean, here you have all these unique beings, sitting side by side with all these amazing ideas (hopefully, i'm probably being way too optimistic here) and life history. Yet everyone keeps to themselves and does not even dare make eye contact. It's pretty shitty if you ask me. Nothing ever changes about the subway rides either. Everyone on the bus could be completely different people from the last day, yet nothing about the ride has changed! Sometimes I really want to change things up, but as you said it can't be done alone - this applies to the "train of society" in general as well.

I don't know if it's a matter of education, or awareness, or just general contentment in the fact that "this is enough". A lot of people who really want change have kind of given up on the idea of an actual revolution and I think now the direction is more in strengthening the bonds of friends, family and strangers (rather than enforcing the artificial isolation of society) in order to prepare for whatever disaster we may find ourselves in whether it be caused by the environment or a serious economic depression (maybe the rise of fascism?)


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7890482 - 01/16/08 09:35 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

I think we might be living in the time of REAL change. Yeah, a lot of people stood up and made a little bit of change in the 30's and 60's... but nothing like what could be happening now. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing! First of all, I think mother earth is definitely taking a strong stand. If you haven't noticed, a lot of crazy shit has been going down when it comes to the weather. Yeah, maybe you can call it just global warming, but I think it could be a lot more. Also, a lot of shit has been going down in politics! I don't know, just putting it all together.. I also think we're coming upon an information war, hopefully the time will come soon when information is just freely accessed... kind of like the internet is now, but a lot more open to all kinds of knowledge. We also are hopefully realizing in science that our minds are where we need to be exploring. (well, besides space of course) I think this should include psychedelics.
Either way, I think there's a lot of exciting shit happening in the world today, and this time I'm pretty sure something is actually going down! I dunno, maybe it's the apocalypse, maybe it's world war three, maybe it's a huge shift in consciousness, maybe it's whatever is supposed to happen on 2012?? Who knows, but the point is... I think we're living in a very exciting point in time! :smile:


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OfflineCubie
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: Love Cap]
    #7890525 - 01/16/08 09:45 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

I wish I was 18 in 1969


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7891139 - 01/16/08 11:42 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

I agree that square one is having strong, nurturing relationships with friends and family and breaking down barriers of alienation between people within communities. Not only is it square one, but it's the lifeblood of any effective, resilient movement. If you look at any historic movement pretty much anywhere in the world, the strongest ones were centred in tight communities. e.g. The Black Panthers fed children in the ghetto. But nurturing relationships aren't enough in and of themselves -- in part because the economic organization of our society restrains the depth of relationships that might otherwise be formed within a community. We are all too busy running on the hampster wheel of wage slavery that we don't have the time or emotional resources left for the lives and relations we might otherwise build. So a committment to developing the fullest relations possible inevitably puts one at odds with the current status quo, with the existent.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7891216 - 01/17/08 12:00 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
A lot of people are horrified by the present political situation, but there is no movement like we saw in the 30's or the 60's.




Yes there is. It just doesn't get any media coverage. The worldwide demonstrations before the beginning of the Iraq war were much much larger and better organized than any Vietnam rally. Plenty of people all over the world are working to improve our situation. You just have to look in the right places.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7892274 - 01/17/08 09:47 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
Does anyone else ever feel like they were born to the wrong generation? That what they desire in life is lacking in the present era? I want to live in a revolutionary, vibrantly experimental time... but unfortunately I find myself alive in what is perhaps the most complacent time and place to have ever existed. A product exists to fill every possible desire and people's authentic desires are recuperated by the marketplace instead of explored more directly/honestly. A lot of people are horrified by the present political situation, but there is no movement like we saw in the 30's or the 60's. Why? For all you old timers who were around for the 60's-- what do you think happened to diffuse that energy and momentum?




:thumbup: I have felt this but I doubt if it's accurate not really knowing what past conditions were like. Ancient Greece seems like a good choice though.

And technology is what diffused the momentum of the 60/70s. The govt knew what it was doing when it gave certain concessions to the "hippies". Technology is the flavor of the times for control of people now. Consumerism is the carrot to keep people right in line and the threat of the loss of their toys and comforts.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (01/17/08 09:52 AM)


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: born to the wrong generation? *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #7892303 - 01/17/08 09:56 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: soulcircus]
    #7892383 - 01/17/08 10:27 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Mush- you're right, I know. There is a lot going on and I am aware of a great deal of it. The media ignores it intentionally to downplay it and make it appear nothing is going on. It's rather effective. In North America, this stuff doesn't have the mass momentum previous generations have experienced, though. Millions of people marching for one day of thier lives and never being active again doesn't really count as a movement to me... Not to be a cynic. I'd just like to see more.

Ice- of course, you're right. There was a concerted effort to water down, diminish and recuperate the hippie thing. "Bread and circuses" is a good strategy for social control. Give the people basic food, limited "rights" and plenty of entertainment and they'll be too comfortable to reflect on the outrageous injustice this society requires to function.

Soulcircus- I hope you're right. I've thought as much myself, but at the same time we've seen this society recover from potential breakdown and radical change time after time after time and it's entirely possible that it will keep on trucking along for another few centuries. God forbid. The current technology being developed for surveillance and repression is incredibly daunting.

I don't want to sound the pessimist, because the last thing I want to do is reinforce the notion that it's too big, that there's nothing we can do. That's a lie. It's an effective lie that keeps tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands or even millions of potential allies from standing on thier feet and living. Instead there is always the promise of the hampster wheel... material abundance if only one is willing to be a productive member of capital.

I think the primary difference between the 30's or 60's and now is that in those generations, people truly believed that they were building revolution. I watched a film in which a 60's activist said they expected revolution in the US within 5 years. Now the most common phrase I hear is "well, you're right and everything, but there's nothing we can do", "it's too big," etc... I see this belief as a much bigger obstacle to the building of a vibrant movement than nearly anything else.


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7892416 - 01/17/08 10:37 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

People talk about going somewhere, but they never mention where they're going. Where are you headed, where do you want to go. If you are progressive, what is your goal, and why. I think peace is not good enough for most people. If there were peace people would scream for revolution and battle. If there is war people will scream for peace.

It's not enough to say you want vibrancy or revolution.

My personal opinion is that people's hearts are restless and beg for chaos, disobedience and war and their end is nihilism.


Edited by a_guy_named_ai (01/17/08 10:39 AM)


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7892447 - 01/17/08 10:52 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

I want to live in a world in which the richest 350 people do not control wealth equivalent to the bottom 40%. I want to live in a world in which indigenous cultures are not undermined and torn apart to create new underclasses to fill the most dangerous production jobs in our economy. I want to live in a world in which we don't have to be worried that the salmon, herring, cod, and other fisheries may be obliterated within a few years time; in which the last stands of old growth are not under threat of decimation; in which the rivers don't poison the fish thus poisoning us; in which uranium mines don't poison the game thus poisoning native elders who refuse to give up traditional life; in which people are not imprisoned for protecting thier communities from such threats; in which the police, judicial system and army aren't paid to protect the people who are ensuring all of the above exists and continues.

Is that good enough for you? I can make the list longer.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7892522 - 01/17/08 11:09 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
I want to live in a world in which the richest 350 people do not control wealth equivalent to the bottom 40%. I want to live in a world in which indigenous cultures are not undermined and torn apart to create new underclasses to fill the most dangerous production jobs in our economy. I want to live in a world in which we don't have to be worried that the salmon, herring, cod, and other fisheries may be obliterated within a few years time; in which the last stands of old growth are not under threat of decimation; in which the rivers don't poison the fish thus poisoning us; in which uranium mines don't poison the game thus poisoning native elders who refuse to give up traditional life; in which people are not imprisoned for protecting thier communities from such threats; in which the police, judicial system and army aren't paid to protect the people who are ensuring all of the above exists and continues.

Is that good enough for you? I can make the list longer.




Well now you know how it feels to want. The question is what are you going to do about it? If you continue to want unrealistic things you will feel this way right up to the end. You have to ask yourself if that's ok by you. If not then what can you do, what is exactly within your power?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineCubie
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: Icelander]
    #7892528 - 01/17/08 11:11 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

anything is. we just need to stand up and take the powerback... we run this country not them. i dont even get why since we out number them a million to one


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: Cubie]
    #7892545 - 01/17/08 11:15 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

You haven't looked far enough down the rabbit hole my friend. Down there you will get a real honest look at human nature.

Or you could read some history and do a thorough self examination.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7892625 - 01/17/08 11:35 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Like adrug said, I think conscription for Vietnam moved a lot of people to action in the 1960s.

I do think our current atmosphere of dissatisfaction in the west will lead to some sort of movement in the next few decades though. It really depends on how individuals respond to our dissatisfaction with the status quo.

Be careful not to romanticize other eras though; history highlights the exciting and dramatic parts.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: Icelander]
    #7892835 - 01/17/08 12:33 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You haven't looked far enough down the rabbit hole my friend. Down there you will get a real honest look at human nature.

Or you could read some history and do a thorough self examination.




There is no such thing as "human nature". Humans are almost infinitely malleable, compared to what psychology wants to say. Remember, all of history and human nature is in our minds, and thus are only made real in the present by our minds.

You are clearly looking at things from the vantage point of human history. However, if you were to squeeze the entire Universe's history into 24 hours, the big bang being 12:00 in the morning, and the formation of the Earth at about 6:00 pm, humankind has only been around since 11:59:50 pm. The dinosaurs would have been around for about 6 minutes, while we have only been around for about 10 seconds.

Human civilization starts at about 11:59:54 - Columbus discovered America in about 1 milisecond. The point I'm trying to make is that we've barely come on to the scene and people already want to say that we have a fixed and stable nature, which is absurd. Looking at the last 100 years to try and get a hold of who we are is very very very short sighted. We have the power to change the enviroment in 1 milisecond, change our ideas and beliefs, change our entire modus operates.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7892862 - 01/17/08 12:41 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
There is no such thing as "human nature". Humans are almost infinitely malleable, compared to what psychology wants to say. Remember, all of history and human nature is in our minds, and thus are only made real in the present by our minds.





I disagree.

Yeah, humans are smart... compared to other animals. And we have technology...

... but...

We're really not that complex when viewed from afar.

If humans were kept as pets... the handbook for keeping a pet human happy would be quite simple.

Keep your human fed.

Give your human water.

Give your human toys to keep it happy.

Don't put two male humans in the same cage as a female.

Keeping a human as a pet is about as easy as raising chickens.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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