Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomCube.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineCubie
Moderator
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 8,840
Loc: Down the rabbit hole...
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7892868 - 01/17/08 12:41 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
You haven't looked far enough down the rabbit hole my friend. Down there you will get a real honest look at human nature.

Or you could read some history and do a thorough self examination.




There is no such thing as "human nature". Humans are almost infinitely malleable, compared to what psychology wants to say. Remember, all of history and human nature is in our minds, and thus are only made real in the present by our minds.

You are clearly looking at things from the vantage point of human history. However, if you were to squeeze the entire Universe's history into 24 hours, the big bang being 12:00 in the morning, and the formation of the Earth at about 6:00 pm, humankind has only been around since 11:59:50 pm. The dinosaurs would have been around for about 6 minutes, while we have only been around for about 10 seconds.

Human civilization starts at about 11:59:54 - Columbus discovered America in about 1 milisecond. The point I'm trying to make is that we've barely come on to the scene and people already want to say that we have a fixed and stable nature, which is absurd. Looking at the last 100 years to try and get a hold of who we are is very very very short sighted. We have the power to change the enviroment in 1 milisecond, change our ideas and beliefs, change our entire modus operates.




this is the most intelligent post ive read all day. maybe all week


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7893342 - 01/17/08 02:56 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

If you really want to live "in a revolutionary, vibrantly experimental time", then I suggest hanging out with some biotechnology graduate students and/or Transhumanists.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7893422 - 01/17/08 03:19 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

You are just postulating a big maybe. I'm working from experience and fact. I see little to no evidence of change in humans emotionally since the dawn of recorded history. You can believe what ever makes you comfortable. I'll stick with my best guess.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemushbaby
woodswalker
Female User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 2,645
Loc: in my own lil world
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7893431 - 01/17/08 03:20 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Back to the original question:

I often thought my mother was born in the wrong generation. Although she made a great hippie, I think she really should have lived during the mid to late 1800's. She chose to make everything herself that she could. Later she chose to live on her property w/o running water or electricity.

Some here have wondered why so few stand up and fight what bothers them. They make pills for that now. Seems half the people I know are on some kind of drug for depression/anxiety/being hyper. Anymore it seems like if something bothers us we aren't supposed to examine it or fix it, we're just offered a pill to make us not care.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: mushbaby]
    #7893442 - 01/17/08 03:22 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

The fishing was better and more fun then too.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemushbaby
woodswalker
Female User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 2,645
Loc: in my own lil world
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: Icelander]
    #7893457 - 01/17/08 03:26 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Aw but no fishfinders.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: mushbaby]
    #7893468 - 01/17/08 03:29 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Don't want all that shit. It distracts you from the real reason you need to be out fishing.

Besides if you "learn" to fish it's much more fun and skillful and "finders" are completely unnecessary.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7893470 - 01/17/08 03:29 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

There is no such thing as "human nature". Humans are almost infinitely malleable, compared to what psychology wants to say. Remember, all of history and human nature is in our minds, and thus are only made real in the present by our minds.





Sorry, but this has little or no basis in fact. The genetic reality of being human is something we all share, and it is NOT all in our minds. The animal reactions we have to the circumstances we face are NOT "infinitely malleable," but rather hard-wired and difficult to avoid. The communal programming which we all take on as we grow up is similarly difficult to avoid, though somewhat more malleable than our genetic makeup.

Human nature is more than just an idea, and must be taken into account when considering the possibilities available to us as humans.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: Veritas]
    #7893525 - 01/17/08 03:39 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Word


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: Icelander]
    #7894003 - 01/17/08 05:13 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Dunno 'bout that. Here is me pulling in a small one last summer.



--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7894011 - 01/17/08 05:16 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

:whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: Icelander]
    #7894026 - 01/17/08 05:22 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

I caught him. Now you gut him and clean him whilst I fire up the grill.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: Icelander]
    #7894494 - 01/17/08 07:21 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You are just postulating a big maybe. I'm working from experience and fact. I see little to no evidence of change in humans emotionally since the dawn of recorded history. You can believe what ever makes you comfortable. I'll stick with my best guess.




Maybe you see no evidence in humans emotional change because you're not looking for it? What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. Start looking harder and you will see that progress in human temperament is possible. Especially if you take on this goal for yourself - IMO, this is the best way I could lead you towards evidence.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: Veritas]
    #7894515 - 01/17/08 07:24 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

There is no such thing as "human nature". Humans are almost infinitely malleable, compared to what psychology wants to say. Remember, all of history and human nature is in our minds, and thus are only made real in the present by our minds.





Sorry, but this has little or no basis in fact. The genetic reality of being human is something we all share, and it is NOT all in our minds. The animal reactions we have to the circumstances we face are NOT "infinitely malleable," but rather hard-wired and difficult to avoid. The communal programming which we all take on as we grow up is similarly difficult to avoid, though somewhat more malleable than our genetic makeup.

Human nature is more than just an idea, and must be taken into account when considering the possibilities available to us as humans.




If there is a single human nature than there must be an eternal soul. If everything is genetics, than there can't be a Human Nature because genetics change over time, yes? You are allowed to say that "this is the current human condition" - that is fine - what is foolish to say is that humans will always repeat the same mistakes and the same behaviors for as long as we exist. Nobody has such far vision... like I said, we've been around for about 10 seconds; so how about we give it just a BIT more time?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7894650 - 01/17/08 07:57 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

I tend to lean towards the 'no such thing as human nature' side of the debate. It is undeniable that we have certain biological needs which determine, to some extent, what priorities we will have on a daily basis. It is nearly impossible to escape the drive to seek out food, water, shelter, sex and some sort of human companionship but needs and drives don't constitute 'human nature.' The way human societies organize and fulfill these needs is almost infinitely diverse. I think that maybe the only things that could be refered to as 'human nature' that differ from any other general living thing is 1)we are social creatures - we have a damn difficult time surviving alone 2)our most useful evolutionary adaptation is analytical thinking. But this doesn't tell us much of anything about how we behave. Our behaviour is so much more complex than these fundamental characteristics.

e.g. We all need food -- some develop extensive knowledge of the habits of wild game and the types of plants that grow in thier area; others rely on an extensive, global production and distribution system to fill stores with items produced in all regions of the world. These are the two most divergent examples I can think of, so it illustrates my point clearly. Fundamental drives are the only things we have which can be refered to as 'human nature' yet two distinct expressions of the same drive are almost unrecognizable in thier difference.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7895614 - 01/17/08 11:46 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Neuroscience, anthropology, psychology, and other fields are all beginning to adopt views similar to the one created in linguistics by Noam Chomsky. Chomsky's theory is that all human beings share a universal grammar. The principles of language does not vary within or between cultures, but the parameters of language do. In other words, our brain is inherently equipped with the tools needed to construct and speak language. The basic principles of language are laid out in our minds before we even begin learning a specific language. Learning a language consists of figuring out the specific parameters (eg. words, object-subject or subject-object). All these other fields of knowledge are starting to use principle and parameter thinking in their theories now, too. Or, at least, something very similar to it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7896638 - 01/18/08 09:20 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
You are just postulating a big maybe. I'm working from experience and fact. I see little to no evidence of change in humans emotionally since the dawn of recorded history. You can believe what ever makes you comfortable. I'll stick with my best guess.




Maybe you see no evidence in humans emotional change because you're not looking for it? What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. Start looking harder and you will see that progress in human temperament is possible. Especially if you take on this goal for yourself - IMO, this is the best way I could lead you towards evidence.




Oh I looked for it. For longer then you have been alive. I also have changed my own emotional landscape. But I still have not progressed past the best of the ancient past by any means.

You have no evidence.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: Icelander]
    #7896647 - 01/18/08 09:22 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

But I still have not progressed past the best of the ancient past by any means.




Then you have a long way to go :lol:

I'd like you to at least admit that we are not knowledgeable enough to know if humanity will be just "more of the same" for the next million years or if there is room for evolution and growth towards the light. You're what, 50-60 years old? And you think you've seen everything that humanity is capable of? That sounds more like senility than experience.

When I was 3 years old, I thought the rest of my life was going to be similar to being 3 years old, I would just be doing different activities. This is similar to humans being around for all of 10 seconds in relation to the Universe and thinking they know what the deal is for the next year, which is infinitely longer than a second.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7896657 - 01/18/08 09:26 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

what is foolish to say is that humans will always repeat the same mistakes and the same behaviors for as long as we exist. Nobody has such far vision... like I said, we've been around for about 10 seconds; so how about we give it just a BIT more time?


While nobody can say anything about the future we can certainly make educated guesses based on past and present evidence.

I believe your mind set on humanity is based on a conscious or unconscious belief in the superiority of humanity as a species and set apart from other animals.

The dinosaurs were always dinosaurs. It's pure speculation that had they not gone extinct (a likely fate for humanity) they would now be enlightened emotional beings and not ripping and tearing at each other and their environment.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
Re: born to the wrong generation? [Re: Icelander]
    #7896682 - 01/18/08 09:31 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

I believe your mind set on humanity is based on a conscious or unconscious belief in the superiority of humanity as a species and set apart from other animals.




You would be wrong. My argument is based on the idea of evolution.

Quote:

The dinosaurs were always dinosaurs. It's pure speculation that had they not gone extinct (a likely fate for humanity) they would now be enlightened emotional beings and not ripping and tearing at each other and their environment.




Speculation? No, this is based off the logic of evolution and progress. If you don't believe progress is possible, then I'm sorry to say you have severely limited yourself. The dinosaurs didn't have reason or self-reflective awareness. Believe it (or not), this makes us superior to them.

I'm not saying humans are "better" than dinosaurs, although we are. The point was that change is the only constant in the universe, so it makes no sense to say that there is a fixed human nature.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* ViBrAnT is dead...
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
sTePpInGoNsToNeS 7,917 98 09/29/03 04:55 AM
by fireworks_god
* ViBrAnT's Obituary
( 1 2 all )
Earth_Droid 3,111 30 07/23/03 02:05 PM
by Azmodeus
* Born agian Christains.....
( 1 2 all )
DiarYofaMadmaN 2,762 28 04/22/03 11:39 PM
by valour
* Remembering ViBrAnT Astrok 1,227 16 02/28/04 11:46 AM
by Astrok
* Movement does not exist!
( 1 2 all )
raytrace 2,907 22 05/13/02 02:14 AM
by raytrace
* Right and Wrong Pt.2 (The eternal Myth) Northernsoul 915 9 07/25/04 04:17 PM
by Northernsoul
* You are wrong! sirreal 596 12 10/18/03 05:23 PM
by Droz
* God Was Wrong
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 3,141 30 12/28/02 04:37 AM
by Anonymous

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
2,758 topic views. 0 members, 14 guests and 15 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 15 queries.