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Near Death Experiences
    #1297738 -

I would like to post this in regard to any discussion on NDE's and very extreme OBE's. I have only had an experience like this on mushrooms once. I can't seem to recall close details and it is very hard to communicate. But I had some sort of life review where I was completely out of my body and looking at events that have tooken place this lifetime. I could see with absolute perfect clarity all the things that were at play in that event and could easily see why things were the way they were.

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1297757 -

I saw a show on them once that really creeped me out. 

I still think they are just hallucinations produced by the mind for the sake of survival, though.  But balloons can fly, and they don't have wings; so you never know!  :smile:

-RebelSteve


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Namaste.

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1297770 -

The thing is when you have an OBE or NDE there is no signs of activity in the brain. Not to mension you can look at your body from outside the damn thing. None the less they are absolutely amazing, anyone should know that if they have had one.

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1298518 -

What if the whole hallucination of an OBE or NDE occurs just prior to brain activity ceasing?  I've often had dreams during my ten minute snooze periods that seem to last forever.  I think that when the brain realizes it's about to be shut down; it perhaps produces these hallucinations of "hovering over your body" and being able to "see yourself from above."  It's your brain's way of coping.

Without brain activity, it is simply impossible to perceive or experience anything at all.  Your personality, your ego; they are simply caches of information stored in the hard-drive of your brain.  Without your brain functioning, you would not be able to say "Wow, I'm floating in the air, and I can see myself from above!"

I do not believe in a soul of any sorts.  How could information such as who you are be stored in something that is not physical or tangible by any means?  It's impossible.  It's nothing but a hallucination produced by the brain.  If it were real, I'm sure science would have found a way to prove it by now.

Fish can fly, though, so you never know! :wink:

-RebelSteve


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Namaste.

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1300332 -

I do not believe in a soul of any sorts. How could information such as who you are be stored in something that is not physical or tangible by any means? It's impossible. It's nothing but a hallucination produced by the brain. If it were real, I'm sure science would have found a way to prove it by now.


What physically are your thoughts made from? Try reading DMT: The Spirit Molecule and learn about a theory of science proving of the soul.


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AH HA....

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: DrubuShrume]
    #1300655 -

Strassman proved nothing. His "study" was more like a survey of the subjective experiences of people on DMT.

If he proved something, tell me what page... I'll look it up and explain to you how you're not reading it right.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1300914 -

Why would everyone have the same hallucinations then?
edit: and actually, how can you come back to your body having learned something new?


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.

Edited by enotake2 (02/11/03 08:01 PM)

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: enotake2]
    #1301743 -

Why would everyone have the same hallucinations then?

Maybe for the same reason that every "alien abductee" sees green/gray creatures with large heads and big, dark eyes.

And actually, how can you come back to your body having learned something new?

The only example that I have heard of this was a woman who claimed to have "seen" her body on the operating table while she was being operated on and considered clinically dead at the time.  When she woke up, she claimed to have seen all these scalpels and tools that were next to her operating table when she was "hovering" up in the air. 

The doctors said there "no way" she could've described these tools in such detail if she had not actually seen them from up in the air during her surgery somehow.

I say balderdash!  There could be so many other explanations for her ability to describe the tools that I'd have to call anyone who holds the woman's claim as true a blind fool!  What if she had precontemplated an elaborate plan to fake an OBE prior to her operation for the sake of publicity and money.  She could've found out information before her surgery, such as what kind of tools the doctors would be using and other things like that. 

The woman also said that during her OBE, she saw a bright light and heard dead relatives of hers calling her towards the light; but she knew it was not her time to go.

Wow, that's original.

It's all hogwash in my opinion, but once I did see a woman get sawed in half and then put back together; so you never know! :smile:

-RebelSteve

EDIT:  I love your title, btw! :grin:  I'm going to do my darndest!
 


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Namaste.

Edited by RebelSteve33 (02/12/03 05:35 AM)

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1301826 -

Do you believe in consciousness? And not the soul?


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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: Shroomism]
    #1302050 -

Of course! :laugh:

Our definitions of those words could be different, though.

And remember, I'm just a weird kid who doesn't know anything.

Thank you,

-RebelSteve


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Namaste.

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1302121 -

there have been many many many scientific studies done on poeple that are able to intentionally produce the out of body experiance, i've done it myself 8 times so far.

the easiest way to learn the truth for yourself is to just try it out. there are guides on the internet for "atral projection in a month" and stuff like that.

so try it out. if it doesn't work i guess the thousands and thousands of people who say they can do it and the scientific evidence supporting it is wrong. at least you can say you've actually tried.


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: truekimbo2]
    #1302275 -

there have been many many many scientific studies done on poeple that are able to intentionally produce the out of body experiance, i've done it myself 8 times so far.

I've read quite a few studies on the subject myself, but none of them could prove anything conclusively.  If you could cite one that does for me, though, I would greatly appreciate that! :smile:

As for the fact that you've intentionally produced an OBE 8 times so far; I don't believe you.  I'm not necessarily saying that you're lying, though.  Perhaps you just had a very vivid dream or hallucination based on things that you've read about astral projection that made you believe it was real.

the easiest way to learn the truth for yourself is to just try it out. there are guides on the internet for "atral projection in a month" and stuff like that.

I have neither the patience, the dedication, nor the desire to practice something for a month that I don't even believe can occur.  Besides, I wouldn't put much stock in an Internet guide that tells you how to make your "soul" (which I don't even believe in) float around through an imaginary land where anything is possible.  I stopped believing in stuff like that sometime after puberty.

if it doesn't work i guess the thousands and thousands of people who say they can do it and the scientific evidence supporting it is wrong. at least you can say you've actually tried.

Once again, I've never seen any scientific evidence, but if you can produce some for me, or tell me a book in which I could find some; I would be elated!  And yes, those thousands and thousands of people who say they can do it are wrong.  Or they're just lying. 

Astral projection wouldn't still be a matter of debate if thousands and thousands of people could do it.  It would be something that was taught in schools if thousands and thousands of people could do it!  Governments would use astral projection to spy on other countries if thousands and thousands of people could do it.  It would have so many uses, and so many repurcussions, that if thousands and thousands of people could do it; we would certainly know by now. 

Do you see what I'm saying?

If you don't see, and are still under the illusion that this phenomenon is real, then prove it.  If you can astral project yourself, you should be able to prove it to me without a doubt by some means or another.  I don't know enough about astral projection to suggest a method myself, but I'm sure you (with all your experience in this area) should be able to come up with one.

Thanks for reading, :grin:

-RebelSteve

P.S.  Don't call me close-minded because I could say the same of you! :wink:


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Namaste.

Edited by RebelSteve33 (02/12/03 03:28 PM)

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1303087 -

It's my understanding that my consciousness, my awareness, is my soul.


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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: Shroomism]
    #1303168 -

And you believe that your consciousness, your awareness, could exist separate from your brain (thus implying it would be separate from the body as well)? I don't believe in that kind of soul.

-RebelSteve


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Namaste.

Edited by RebelSteve33 (02/12/03 03:52 PM)

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1303184 -

Yes, in fact I have experienced my consciousness outside of my body, on many occassions, which is part of the reason why I believe in the eternal essence of the soul, or 'consciousness'


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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: Shroomism]
    #1303220 -

How were these experiences induced?

How do you know they were not just hallucinations, or a dream that seemed very much like reality?  When we are dreaming; we are normally not even conscious of the fact that we're dreaming.  We think it's real.

Maybe the experiences you had were simply dreams that you tricked your brain into believing were real somehow.  Maybe that's what those "learn how to astral project in 30 days" internet guides really teach you to do.

And how do you know that your consciousness was really outside of your body, anyway?  If it wasn't in your body, what form was it in?  And how did it move around?  How can something that exists in one plane of existence exist in a completely different plane of existence?  How does it get there and back?

Sorry for all the questions... The whole concept is just very confusing to me.  :crazy:

-RebelSteve 


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Namaste.

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1303279 -

When I was younger I had a Near Death experience, in which after I was struck by a car.. I literally left my body.. my essence, my consciousness left my body, I could see it below me. I was still existing, all of my thoughts, my same consciousness, detached from my body, which lay lifeless below me. I saw the people standing around, saw the helicopter coming down, all from a distance. For a good period of time I existed detached from my body, still a conscious, thinking being. I felt a deep impulse, as if it wasn't yet time, and *snap* woke up in the body.

This same feeling was conjured later on when I began having out of body experiences. I would wake up outside my body, in spirit form, attached by a stream of energy connecting me to the body. From what I later learned is that this stream of energy many call an etheric cord of sorts, which serves as an anchor to the physical body. It is what binds the spirit to the physical body, When it is detached, the spirit becomes freed from the body, and thus consciousness leaves the body rendering it lifeless.

This consciousness is in the form of pure energy. It exists in the spiritual planes, the etheric form. It moves around by the force of will, or conscious thought. It exists simultaneously in the higher spiritual planes and the lower physical planes in the form of energy, it is multidimensional.

Death is merely your consciousness ending it's incarnation in that body and moving on to new experiences.



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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1303704 -

EDIT: I love your title, btw!  I'm going to do my darndest!

:laugh:


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1304123 -

I have a friend whose heart stopped while on the operating table. This was after a suicide attempt. She told me about how she saw the world fading further and further into the background and how she was completely emotionless. She said she felt a certain emptiness, but it was almost like a good emptiness.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Near Death Experiences [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1304286 -

I've had two or three successful projections in my lifetime. They are not dreams nor do they resemble any lucid dream I've ever had.

If you don't believe me, I really don't give a fuck. Shoot me in the face and then go kill yourself :-)

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