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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: deCypher]
    #12035591 -

hmm it can be somewhat complicated and depends on the systemic approach taken to identify and the school of buddhism

in theravada, which i'm less familiar with, the term arahant refers to one who has reached enlightenment (as in ended all suffering and future rebirth - realized noself/emptiness) whereas a buddha is an arahant with more levels of perfection (omniscient, etc)... i believe there's three levels of buddhas in this system, one who reaches it from hearing a buddha's teaching but cannot teach themselves, one who hears and can teach, and one who reaches it by themselves and can teach (like the historical buddha)... I could be wrong though

in the mahayana schools, the goal is more specific to become a buddha and not just an arhat (which means one who's reached individual enlightenment but cannot teach / is not omniscient etc)... it's called the 'bodhisattva ideal' (where a bodhisattva is one who works for the enlightenment of all beings - strives for buddhahood to help everyone)

on the path to buddhahood within the mahayana, there's ten levels called bhumis of bodhisattvahood prior to full buddhahood... a good read on them is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhumi_(Buddhism)

dunno if that answers what you were asking or not :blush:


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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: deff]
    #12035606 -

It doesn't answer what I was asking you  or address my OP.:hissyfit:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: Icelander]
    #12035632 -

Icelander said:
deff said:
which level of enlightenment? arhatship, buddhahood?

i can bet there's a lot who have improved their mental conditions enormously

you need more faith :tongue:


Any level, now lets here that guess.

I'll leave the faith to the christians thank you.


well if you want my technical answer... there's no beings to reach enlightenment

so no one has reached enlightenment :wink:

and yet theres one fully enlightened primordial mind simultaneously

as far as on the conventional level of seeing 'beings' who can 'reach enlightenment' ... the answer is countless :wink:

(there was no 'start' to samsara)

on the more conventional level of what you were probably asking... as in humans on this planet realizing enlightenment... hmmm ... i have no idea (sorry to be uneventful)... maybe "20,000"?


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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: deff]
    #12035668 -

OK 20,000 out of all those millions. And have they stopped humanities (imo) headlong rush into insanity and self destruction?

Now, back to my OP. We need that pill fuckers. The DL (dali lama) has given the idea his blessing so lets get on it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: Icelander]
    #12035674 -

Icelander said:
OK 20,000 out of all those millions. And have they stopped humanities (imo) headlong rush into insanity and self destruction?


Geez, hold your horses.  Enlightenment/spirituality needs to incorporate science and technology, and this takes time.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: deCypher]
    #12035684 -

real spirituality is a science :smile:


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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: deff]
    #12035693 -

The method of science and the aim of religion... :wink:

I do believe such things as the Internet are changing the way we humans interact though.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: deCypher]
    #12035699 -

deCypher said:
Icelander said:
OK 20,000 out of all those millions. And have they stopped humanities (imo) headlong rush into insanity and self destruction?


Geez, hold your horses.  Enlightenment/spirituality needs to incorporate science and technology, and this takes time.


Technology on some level has been around a long time as have Buddhists.

We don't have time to take. It's now or never baby. Breaks over, back to work.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: Icelander]
    #12035705 -

Kali Yuga still has a little while to go before Shiva reigns down destruction on us all... we've always had technology to some level but I have a feeling we'll surpass our past successes.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: deff]
    #12035719 -

back to the OP... the pill would have to erase karmic imprints on the subtle minds and not just render a physical alteration of the gross mind for temporary release from suffering (that could be akin to becoming a heroin junkie though less destructive) but the negative karma would still have to ripen eventually

plus it would pose a problem with supply... imagine becoming dependent on a pill for infinite bliss (enlightenment) and then losing your source? that in itself would manifest as intensely negative minds (anger, violence, attachment to the previous state, jealousy of those with pills (lol), etc)... i think if anything it'd be setting oneself up for the possibility of a major downfall... afterall enlightenment is supposed to be a permanent release from all suffering and causes of future suffering - and relying on anything by definition would render this impermanent

also, enlightenment is quite possible sober :lol:

i'm all for any expedient means to enlightenment though... whatever works the fastest... also means of removing suffering and causing happiness on the relative level are great prior to reaching enlightenment - so long as the means is skillful and the effects well understood (which is a lot harder to know than it seems)


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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: deCypher]
    #12035741 -

deCypher said:
Kali Yuga still has a little while to go before Shiva reigns down destruction on us all... we've always had technology to some level but I have a feeling we'll surpass our past successes.



We've had successes?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: Icelander]
    #12035752 -

Well, I like the fact that I can go to a hospital and get surgery if I need it.  Antiseptics and improved hygiene are a nice plus too.

I'd probably shoot myself if I didn't have constant access to music or the Internet, too.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: Icelander]
    #12035789 -

Icelander said:
Through chemistry.
No..
other..
way..
to..
save..
humanity...


why would we do such a thing like that?
we can trust our genes to do our biding.

----
SO THE UNIVERSE HAS BEEN DISCOVERED!
nothing to do now but watch

:stoner:

EDIT: to save humanity would be like saving smoke. Just sounds dumb

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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: deCypher]
    #12036127 -

deCypher said:
Well, I like the fact that I can go to a hospital and get surgery if I need it.  Antiseptics and improved hygiene are a nice plus too.

I'd probably shoot myself if I didn't have constant access to music or the Internet, too.


Has all this caused you to become enlightened? If not you are on another subject dude.:wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: Icelander]
    #12036132 -

Well, I'd say that the Internet in particular with increased potential for communication of ideas would help with enlightenment.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: blackdust]
    #12036133 -

why would we do such a thing like that?
we can trust our genes to do our biding.

Think you got that  backwards.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: deCypher]
    #12036150 -

deCypher said:
Well, I'd say that the Internet in particular with increased potential for communication of ideas would help with enlightenment.


so enlightenment is a destination huh?'


---
it is enlightened and it always have been

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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: blackdust]
    #12036154 -

Never said it was a destination.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: We need to get enlightened now. [Re: Icelander]
    #12036161 -

Icelander said:
why would we do such a thing like that?
we can trust our genes to do our biding.

Think you got that  backwards.


or maybe i got it always

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North Spore Shop: Bulk Substrate

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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