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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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A quote on man and dolphins
    #1174325 -

"...Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much... the wheel, New York, wars, and so on, whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely the dolphins believed themselves to be more intelligent than man for precisely the same reasons. "
-Douglas Adams


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: Adamist]
    #1174499 -

I've read a lot of John Lilly's books on his research with dolphins, and I fully believe that they are just as intelligent, or even more so, than humans. I think that further research in this area will bring about some amazing findings and surprises for the human race.

We are far from the most complex animals on this earth. We are not the smartest. We are not the best. When we can see far enough past the cloud of our egos to realize this, I think we will make some amazing discoveries.

One of my goals in life is to swim with dolphins some day.

-RebelSteve


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Namaste.

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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: Adamist]
    #1174509 -

I find facts to be more convincing than speculation.

When the dolphins exhibit evidence of conceptual abstraction I'll concede they can think. Until then they are just another animal to me.

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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: ]
    #1174537 -

Have you ever been face-to-face with a dolphin Mr Mushrooms?

My Psychology teacher, who is an educated 50-year old atheist, went swimming with a pod of dolphins a few summers back, and brought took pictures. I saw one and asked him if he believed that dolphins were just as intelligent as man. He said "Believe it or not, when I looked into that dolphin's eyes, there was something there. An intelligent awareness, not found in any other animal that I'm aware of." This surprised me greatly because I couldn't imagine him saying something like that.

I myself have never been face-to-face with them and I have no ego attachments to this particular speculative thought, but I can't help but wondering... and isn't that the precursor to most scientific breakthroughs?


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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: Adamist]
    #1174571 -

Have you ever been face-to-face with a dolphin Mr Mushrooms?

Yes. I saw nothing to indicate that they were capable of conceptual thought.

My Psychology teacher, who is an educated 50-year old atheist, went swimming with a pod of dolphins a few summers back, and brought took pictures. I saw one and asked him if he believed that dolphins were just as intelligent as man. He said "Believe it or not, when I looked into that dolphin's eyes, there was something there. An intelligent awareness, not found in any other animal that I'm aware of." This surprised me greatly because I couldn't imagine him saying something like that.

That is a very interesting story but it leans too hard on anthropomorphism for me to be considered anything but a nice story. I have often seen what I thought was cognition in a dog's face. That does not mean it is so and may more likely mean I am seeing something I want to see.

I myself have never been face-to-face with them and I have no ego attachments to this particular speculative thought, but I can't help but wondering... and isn't that the precursor to most scientific breakthroughs?

I have no ego attachments to this issue as well. I think that forming a hypothesis is often the result of wondering or speculating about something. After that has happened we need to test the hypothesis to verify a conclusion.

Dolphins have failed every test for conceptual abstraction.

At some point I will elaborate on what conceptual abstraction means.

Anthropomorphism: n. Attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena.

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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: Adamist]
    #1174618 -

i LOVE dolphins. They are the most perfect creatures on this planet. And damn right they're smart! I've only seen them a couple of times... What I would do to swim with them... My god they are fucking incredible. They look at you, and it's like, they know that your thinking about them looking at you, and there is a laughter in their eyes...
They're so above humans. Think about it. When was the last time you heard about the blue dolphins killing white dolphins, or a dolphin going about alone cuz he was made fun of. And how often do you hear about a dolphin beating his children? Never! Cause dolphin are the bestest most incredible most magnificentest superduperest things in the world.


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"I think it's time we stop
Children, What's the sound,
Everybody look what's going down"

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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: SnuffelzFurever]
    #1174621 -

They look at you, and it's like, they know that your thinking about them looking at you, and there is a laughter in their eyes...

That's exactly along the lines of what the teacher I referred to said.


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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: Adamist]
    #1174697 -

Wow! I'm so glad somebody made a post about Dolphins and Douglas Adams. I was getting ready to do the same. Dolphins live in pure socialism. They never fight each other, they love to play, love to have sex, and when another dolphin is in trouble, they can use their eco to call all other dolphins in the area to their aid. Just because humans haven't found any evidence of conceptual abstraction, doesn't mean that dolphins are less intelligent. Either We haven't found a way to test it in dolphin's, or dolphin's simply don't need conceptual abstraction because they are at Zen. They already understand the greatest concepts there are. It's just forged into their nature. Dolphin's remind me of elephants, and we can learn a lot from both. There is a lot of truth in Douglas Adams' books, and we can learn a lot from him. For instance, in his book 42 is the answer to the question of life, the universe, and everything. In many translations of the Tao Te Ching, Chapter 42 is where lao tzu says "This is the essence (father/mother) of my teachings" at the end of the chapter. Douglas Adam's books allow us to laugh at the truth, which is really the essence of many buddhist/taoist teachings.

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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: SnuffelzFurever]
    #1174914 -

what a great point.
I also like the fact they have sex for pleasure just like humans..


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Mindfulness is the aware, balanced acceptance of the present experience.
It isn't more complicated than that.
It is opening to or recieving the present moment, pleasant or unpleasant, just as it is,
without either clinging to it or rejecting it.

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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: Jenny]
    #1175032 -

... And they fight sharks too! They all gang up and do some flipper-style shit to the shark. Well, I think dolphins are like us in many ways, aside from genetics. They think more like us than do monkeys and apes. They have the basic instinct for survival, while wanting to have a little fun at times. I'm sure if dolphins could get a supply of marijuana and some thumbs, they'd be complete stoners.

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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: SnuffelzFurever]
    #1175056 -

In reply to Snuffelz.

Actually when dolphin pups "misbehave" the parents bite their tails, butt them, and force concentrated sonar waves directly into the pups sonar receivers


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1175626 -

When I read the subject, I immediately thought of John Lilly. There is some interesting reading on www.deoxy.org on John Lilly encase anyone is interested.

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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: ]
    #1175881 -

Dolphins are definately very intelligent creatures, but there isn't really any way to know right now just how intelligent they are. We know that they use certain calls to get individual dolphin's attention, like names. They've been observed playing with other animals, toying with them, and playing jokes for their own amusement. Lots of interesting quirks.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1176486 -

Quote:
In reply to Snuffelz.

Actually when dolphin pups "misbehave" the parents bite their tails, butt them, and force concentrated sonar waves directly into the pups sonar receivers


eh, those bastard kids prolly deserved it, heh. i didnt know that tho, heh. thanks for the new info :-)
still think dolphins are great and stylish and superkikass


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"I think it's time we stop
Children, What's the sound,
Everybody look what's going down"

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Re: A quote on man and dolphins [Re: Adamist]
    #1176975 -

Didn't Richard Alpert(Ram Dass) once get an erection in a tank swimming with dolphins and ask himself:"is this RIGHT?" or was that a dream........... :crazy: :grin: 


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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