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 Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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 Re: Dolphins...  [Re: Juggles]
#452258 - 11/08/01 09:14 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wellll, Gorrilas are primates, very closely related to humans. I don't thing dolphins are quite as similar to us. We can "train" them to do things, lots of things, but I don't know how easy it would be to get them to "talk" back. Still, they are very intelligent, perhaps we are just too stupid to talk to them. (I believe their communication methods are supierior to ours, right? Maybe they're waiting for us to evolve to their level.) I don't know, I don't have much expertise in this area. :)
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 gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 4 days, 14 hours
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Re: Dolphins... [Re: Ulysees]
#452321 - 11/08/01 10:09 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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bookwyrm sez:
mind in the sea
man and dolphin (lilly)
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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Grenade01
Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 382
Loc: USA
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Re: Dolphins... *DELETED* [Re: gnrm23]
#452412 - 11/08/01 11:45 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Grenade01
Reason for deletion: .
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SpiralMix
journeyman
Registered: 10/09/01
Posts: 51
Loc: California
Last seen: 18 years, 2 days
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Re: Dolphins... [Re: Grenade01]
#452575 - 11/09/01 06:12 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Grenade01:
You're describing consciousness... which can be molded like a sculpture. Too bad humans are the sculptors molding the poor defenseless baby dolphins that will do anything to get a bite of food.
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Reflecting ourselves through Unity to escape the claws of Duality and become the
creator that experiences creation.
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: Dolphins... [Re: SpiralMix]
#452994 - 11/09/01 02:04 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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There's Dolphins in a mall near here, and eventually they have become pissed. They're tired of screwing around everyday in front of crowds of rednecks. I believe they're dying, either through depression or suicide. These dolphins are stuck in a pool in a mall on the prairies, it's pretty sick.
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Anonymous
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Re: Dolphins... [Re: Ulysees]
#453947 - 11/10/01 01:24 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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In reply to:
I suppose they could, but I haven't heard of a machine able to do that... I think you first have to learn their language, break it down, and then you might be able to program it and "emit" it to the dolphin. They work on a totally different system than us. It's like when you get the internet through a phone line. Your computer is totally digital, and phones are analog (or something like that). You need a modem in between to change the signals over the phone line into a readable (off/on) message your computer can read.
It's called Telepathy, and it is a Universal Language. Mind to Mind communication, no conscious filters or limiting verbal interpretations.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Dolphins... [Re: ]
#460236 - 11/16/01 07:57 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's called Telepathy, and it is a Universal Language
Except no one is able to reliably demonstrate it, which is why we have cell phones, e-mail, letters, FAX machines, smoke signals, semaphores, etc.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Stonerwitch
oilrig
Registered: 11/20/00
Posts: 147
Loc: England/Finland Etc.
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Re: Dolphins... [Re: Ulysees]
#460302 - 11/16/01 09:34 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't think there's enough physical or mental stimulus in the sea to allow these creatures to evolve beyond a certain point.
Especially if you're lacking limbs.
Very few things in the nature happen in vain, that is, in the long run.
The dolphins could have however very emotionallly charged lives, this has been suggested atleast. I just don't see what would be the benefit for them of this, or for the nature.
Anyway, there's no doubt that they are intelligent. But as soon as they come in contact with humans, it is not so obvious anymore what is purely impulsive behaviour and what is learned from humans, e.g. do a trick = get food.
For example my dog used to show unbelievable "intelligence" in getting food. I think this kind of intelligence is more like instincive driven intelligence and not the kind of intelligence you are talking about.
So far, in my opinion, humans are the only species that can be excluded from this group....Our motivation is not driven by survival anymore.
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Yume Bitsu - Yume Bitsu
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Adom
Totally Nude
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
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In the same sense humans are pretty stupid too, they have no interest in money yet they are trained to center their lives around it.
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Stonerwitch
oilrig
Registered: 11/20/00
Posts: 147
Loc: England/Finland Etc.
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Re: Dolphins... [Re: Adom]
#460321 - 11/16/01 10:09 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Not me. I'm interested in getting money but I'm not trained to do so by any means:).
I wish money didn't excist though. I wish I could get my daily rations of food by slamming some squirrel skins on the desk.
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Yume Bitsu - Yume Bitsu
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Traveller
enthusiast
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 309
Last seen: 16 years, 6 days
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"So far, in my opinion, humans are the only species that can be excluded from this group....Our motivation is not driven by survival anymore. "
maybe it's the christian influence on our school systems (i grew up in new zealand which was a british colony once upon a time so i expect the american school system is sort of similar) but for some reason we're not taught about (other kinds of) APES! but then on the other hand when i was in school no one had really done any research on them yet....anyway they don't have sufficiently developed vocal chords/mouths/tongues etc to speak but their problem solving skills are fantastic!! chimpanzees and gorillas are capable of imagining themselves in another being's (a human's) shoes....and sure it's still the case of solve this problem = get food, BUT if you were a hungry young human ape raised in captivity wouldn't you do the same?
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Traveller
enthusiast
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 309
Last seen: 16 years, 6 days
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Re: Dolphins... [Re: Swami]
#460376 - 11/16/01 10:54 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's so good to read your comments sometimes Swami!!
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Adom
Totally Nude
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
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I wasn't suggesting you acted this way, but surely you can see were I'm coming from, humans could be trained to believe or do just about anything.
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: Dolphins... [Re: Adom]
#460605 - 11/16/01 03:38 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't think we ever really stopped doing things for the sake of survival. Though we do a lot of things for enjoyment, these are usually done only when survival is taken care of. We just have the luxury of free time and resources to waste. Still, our primary function is survival, it will be that way as long as we are biological lifeforms. Perhaps even when we're not.
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Amoeba665
strange
Registered: 05/23/00
Posts: 275
Loc: a hidden microutopia at t...
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Dolphins... [Re: Ulysees]
#460649 - 11/16/01 04:19 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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well certainly survival is our first priority, but i don't think that it is our primary function. animals have the luxury of free time and resources also. they lounge around, relax, and generally be happy and enjoy their family's company. after they meet their need for survival and reproduction they are content. with humans this is not so. we continually need to find distractions to amuse us, whether they be entertainment or the continued pursuit of power in a twisted obsession with the need for "survival". when these distractions go away they are replaced by a yearning, a desire to push, and a tendency to be pulled inward.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Dolphins... [Re: Ulysees]
#460709 - 11/16/01 05:35 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I like a little dolphin in my canned tuna - gives it extra flavor.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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 Re: Dolphins... [Re: Swami]
#460718 - 11/16/01 05:57 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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nice.
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Traveller
enthusiast
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 309
Last seen: 16 years, 6 days
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Re: Dolphins... [Re: Amoeba665]
#460884 - 11/16/01 08:54 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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while what you say seems to be true (about humans not being content when survival worries have been taken care of) I'm not sure that this is necessarily our natural state. I'm more inclined to believe that by separating ourselves from nature and filling our brains with unneccessary un-necessary neccesary....shit from day one, distractions everywhere we look and we are taught to pursue all this crap....we appear to be different but really it's just layers upon layers of superficial bullshit that makes us seem different.
ok i'm losing the plot of this post and thinking about my other earlier one.
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: Dolphins... [Re: Traveller]
#460967 - 11/16/01 10:47 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think I agree with Traveller... heh heh. Maybe.
Anyhow, we are not any different than other animals in the basic sense: We first take care of things that allow us to survive (eating) then we mess around. It just so happens that Homo Sapiens got ahead of the game (we were more efficient than the other animals, due to many factors of evolution). We also developed the ability to store information, so that it could be passed down to younger generation (thus we don't have to function on pure instinct or learned behaviour, like other animals who don't have the ability to store information, or share information). So, by storing the information up and sharing it over thousands of years, we've accumulated all these things. We don't have them just because we're smart and we can invent things, that's not how it works. If a dolphin could write something down, like an instruction book of some sort, or even a cave drawing, they would be able to develop much more than they have by simply going on instinct all the time. You might be surprised to know that if you took a group of children, and didn't teach them anything, and raised them in the woods somewhere, they would be animals. It would take them a long time to develop a language and implement it (they probably wouldn't get past grunts). We owe almost everything we are to the people who wrote it down before us, they laid out the blueprints of how humans are to behave.
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shaggy101
Registered: 08/16/00
Posts: 1,816
Loc: ..still waiting for godot
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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 Re: Dolphins... [Re: Juggles]
#461674 - 11/17/01 08:49 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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music?
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