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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Having a Thought vs. Thinking
    #1161785 - 12/22/02 08:56 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Many seem to be unable to distinguish the two, so I will attempt to differentiate.

Our brain may be referred to in AI parlance as an Association Engine. In common terms this means that processed sensory input (words, images, musics) triggers a calvacade of similar or associated memories. For example: someone says the phrase "World Trade Center" and a whole flood of imagery and emotions replays itself quickly in your mind. This is what I would call "having thoughts".

This type of mental processing frequently leads to knee-jerk reactions and flame wars when someone intentionally or unintentionally touches one of your trigger points. The person feeling this emotion (frequently anger) then makes a new and faulty association with the person or thing that provided the trigger as if the emotion was externally generated.

Thinking, or more correctly, critical thinking as opposed to reactionary thinking, is an entirely different process. Elaboration on this would take too much time and space, but I will simplify and condense it. In this type of thinking, you try to look at an issue from as many angles as possible, not just your own viewpoint. You ask yourself many questions as to how it is possible that others have come to adopt their view without a priori assuming they are stupid or ignorant. You try to look behind the words and your own gut reaction. You break the issue into small pieces and ask smaller questions that are more manageable and may be answered. You expand and contract the problem to hypothetical extremes to see if validity still holds.

You look forward in time like a chessmaster playing out a multitude of possibilities rather than merely grabbing the first piece your hand rests on and moving it mechanically.

Enlightenment is about recognizing your robotic nature and moving beyond it.

*Steps off lectern*.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Having a Thought vs. Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #1161876 - 12/22/02 10:10 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Nice post. Now, please enlighten us as to why you adopt the view that our nature is robotic, and what does it mean to move beyond it.


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Having a Thought vs. Thinking [Re: raytrace]
    #1161887 - 12/22/02 10:16 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I believe he simply used the term "robotic nature" as a metaphor to describe the way some people act on something wthout thinking.

Robots lack critical thinking skills, do they not?

I think it's a mighty find metaphor! :smile:


--------------------
Namaste.


Edited by RebelSteve33 (12/22/02 05:16 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
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Last seen: 10 months, 8 days
Re: Having a Thought vs. Thinking [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1161897 - 12/22/02 10:19 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"Robots lack critical thinking skills, do they not!"

Unless they're programmed to think critically, like humans.

How would you differentiate between a robot programmed to act exactly like a human, and an actual human?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Having a Thought vs. Thinking [Re: Phluck]
    #1161903 - 12/22/02 10:27 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

How would you differentiate between a robot programmed to act exactly like a human, and an actual human?

Hmm... I think I would go for the Tickling of the Feet method...
No real human could withstand that! :smile: 


--------------------
Namaste.


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Having a Thought vs. Thinking [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1161913 - 12/22/02 10:43 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, you?re right. Obviously my association engine made a mistake. Nevertheless, my question is still valid. Swami could have said the exact same quote literally, or at least that?s what I understand from his posts.

(As Phluck pointed out, in theory, a robot can think critically. So, moving beyond, is moving from the metaphorical ?robot? to the literal? :grin:)
 


Edited by raytrace (12/22/02 10:48 AM)


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Having a Thought vs. Thinking [Re: Phluck]
    #1161966 - 12/22/02 11:13 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

How would you differentiate between a robot programmed to act exactly like a human, and an actual human?
If the robot can successfully hide his extraordinarily high computational power, lack of empathy, and lack of intuition and real understanding, then you are dealing with an evil machine. Since, you have mistaken it for a human, you better be careful.

A difference that makes no difference now, can make a big difference later.


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Anonymous

Re: Having a Thought vs. Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #1162690 - 12/22/02 04:48 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

[stands and applauds]

Bravo! Bravo! Bravissimo!

Yes. This is what I was referring to in the STAR principle under the second letter in the acronym. T stands for "Thinking". In message boards like this one we are afforded the luxury of being able to sit and read a post and think deeply about it before we respond. It is not like we are having a real time conversation and we need to speak RIGHT NOW! because we have just been spoken to. We can read, think critically, and then after careful deliberation, post a remark. That is a lot better than getting stirred up by something we read, rushing to post, and shooting of our mouth. The quickest way to stick your foot in your mouth is to resond without thinking. Now, that can be hard in a real time converastion because if you have just been spoken to there is a comfort zone of time in which to respond.

Here, in this forum, there is no such comfort zone. We have plently of time to think it through before we post. If more of us used that principle the conversations would be more enjoyable. But that is not the only benefit to be reaped. There are many others.


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