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Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: infidelGOD]
#907157 - 09/25/02 12:00 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

The problem with people believing that "aliens don't exist" is that they have a vested interest in preserving that belief.
I have no "vested interest".

...kind of .... irrational don't you think?
I don't hold positions that I think to be irrational.

Do you believe in the Easter Bunny? Seriously? Yes or no? No one can say for certain their isn't, but most people would not find it irrational to NOT believe. Don't you think?

--------------------

The proof is in the pudding.

Extras:

infidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: Swami]
#907178 - 09/25/02 12:09 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

You seriously can't compare the existence of aliens with the Easter Bunny. Seriously. This isn't debating 101.

I don't mean to say that you have a vested interest in "not believing".
But it's another thing to claim that "aliens don't exist" because there is no evidence.
THAT in itself is a belief (an irrational one).

Extras:

Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: infidelGOD]
#907189 - 09/25/02 12:14 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

You seriously can't compare the existence of aliens with the Easter Bunny. Seriously.
I seriously can. To me, one is as lacking in evidence as the other. Not the possible existence of other lifeforms, but the claim that they have visited earth.

This isn't debating 101.
Then why treat it as such? In real debate, you don't state what the other person is thinking nor his motivation, as that cannot be known without asking. You state your own case as strongly as you can without adding superficial "noise" to the discussion.

--------------------

The proof is in the pudding.

Extras:

infidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: Swami]
#907195 - 09/25/02 12:18 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

Okay I'll address the Easter Bunny. (I couldn't resist :grin:

:grin:

)

I don't believe in them. Not because "there is no evidence of their existence", but because there is an alternate explanation. I can't prove that Easter Bunnies don't exist but I can prove that a fictional creation called the "Easter Bunny" exists - which would explain most Easter Bunny sightings.

As for aliens, there are many alternate explanations for sightings and encounters. But I'm talking about the EXISTENCE of aliens. You can't rule out their EXISTENCE for lack of evidence.

Extras:

infidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: Swami]
#907206 - 09/25/02 12:23 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

claim that they have visited earth

OK, it's a stretch to believe that they visited Earth. For that we rely mostly on eyewitness accounts and vague historical records and such. No logical debate is possible. You either believe it or not.

But this thread is titled "aliens don't EXIST, I have proof" <--- a clear logical fallacy as I'm sure you'll agree, which is what I was responding to.

Extras:

Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: infidelGOD]
#907210 - 09/25/02 12:25 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

Agreed.

--------------------

The proof is in the pudding.

Extras:

Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У

Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: infidelGOD]
#907252 - 09/25/02 12:43 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

If I had no personal experience in the matter, I wouldn't believe they visited the Earth, either....

But I still don't fully believe that they are visiting the Earth, because I don't know what the beings are that I've come into contact with.....

For now I'm trying to follow Maynard's advice of "Beliefs are dangerous. Believe in nothing." as best I can. :smile:

:smile:

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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }

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Sclorch
Clyster

Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: Adamist]
#907255 - 09/25/02 12:45 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

For now I'm trying to follow Maynard's advice of "Beliefs are dangerous. Believe in nothing." as best I can.

Good advice... I follow it.

--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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crystalhuman
vapor

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 4
Loc: the great void
Last seen: 23 years, 10 months

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: Swami]
#907407 - 09/25/02 01:49 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

so, back to aliens...
it's all well and good if you don't believe that they exist, but tell me...

-why is it that egypt had no written language predating the complex hieroglyphics?
-how did the mayans discover how long it takes our solar system to revolve around the center of the galaxy, along with much other astronomical knowledge?
-why is there an isolated tribe in the middle of africa who knew about Sirius A's darkstar counterpart Sirius B decades before modern astronomers determined it?
-and just what the hell is it with 'gods' coming from the sky in chariots of fire in ancient myths?? and why are there instructions in pre-Bhagavad-Gita Hindu texts on how to make, essentially, a helicopter???

...y'know, just some nuggets...
if you can tell me WHY and HOW, disregarding ANY outside involvement on development that these things happened, feel free to continue believing we are the highest form of life in the universe with pride.
frankly, the idea makes me sick.

--------------------
ANSWERS may be hazardous to your Uncertainty.
Danger! ANSWERS carry High Overdose Potential.
Remember: ANSWERS are the Thrill That Kills.

Extras:

chodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: infidelGOD]
#907778 - 09/25/02 05:08 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

I see I have dug myself in a BIG hole with my topic title, but it's also a good thing cause I get good, constructive criticism (most of the time anyway) and get to hear all of your very interesting opinions. I realize that saying "I have proof" is silly.

Now to clearify a couple points (and hopefully not dig another hole :confused:

:confused:

) :

I never said I don't believe aliens couldn't exist, it's just TO ME they don't exist. I'll use the example someone used above: "It's easy to say the sun doesn't exist if you live underground." If you have never seen the sun, only heard stories from others there is a giant bright ball going around the earth, would you believe it existed or would you still be skeptical??? You see, in your reality, there is no such thing as a sun, and to you it doesn't exist.There is a possibiltiy the stories are true, but you don' t know for sure. In the "yet unknown to you" reality, yes of course the sun exists, but in your reality it doesn't because you have no reason to believe it does. So when I say I don't believe aliens exist, I'm speaking of my own experiences and knowledge of the subject. I have never encountered anything remotely close to suggesting that aliens exist. Call me unexperienced, unenlightened, but that's the truth.

The difference between the Sun example and the aliens is that we are not outside observesrs and we don't know if in fact aliens exist in the "yet unknown to us" reality, we just say it's highly probable they do because there is "building evidence" (which to me just sounds like more unexplained phenomena that is easily explained by blaming it on aliens).

Extras:

In(di)go
People of the sun.

Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 8,158
Loc: Cologne, Germany

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: infidelGOD]
#907796 - 09/25/02 05:17 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

In reply to:
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The problem with people believing that "aliens don't exist" is that they have a vested interest in preserving that belief. They will not accept the mounting evidence of the existence of aliens.

As for those that do believe in aliens, you can never present to them evidence that aliens DON'T exist. So which is the more logical belief?

Logical thinkers would say that they DON'T KNOW if aliens exist or not. But anyone who claims that "aliens don't exist" has to have a lot of faith.

excellent point!

--------------------

Extras:

infidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: chodamunky]
#907914 - 09/25/02 06:11 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

In the "yet unknown to you" reality, yes of course the sun exists, but in your reality it doesn't because you have no reason to believe it does

...in a reality where nothing exists, nothing exists...

Extras:

infidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: crystalhuman]
#907941 - 09/25/02 06:20 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

Some pretty weak arguments for the existence of aliens...

why is it that egypt had no written language predating the complex hieroglyphics

there is nothing complex about hieroglyphics, they are simple pictographs.

how did the mayans discover how long it takes our solar system to revolve around the center of the galaxy, along with much other astronomical knowledge?

I didn't know they knew this (they probably didn't) but the Mayans did know how to predict solar and lunar eclipses which is pretty amazing. But I wouldn't attribute that to alien contact. The Maya had astronomers who studied the stars for years trying to recognize patterns. Their rituals were held in conjunction with astronomical events so they probably knew a lot about astronomy.

why is there an isolated tribe in the middle of africa who knew about Sirius A's darkstar counterpart Sirius B decades before modern astronomers determined it?

Did they also know that Sirius is actually a TRIPLE star system?

why are there instructions in pre-Bhagavad-Gita Hindu texts on how to make, essentially, a helicopter???

Because as we all know, aliens travel in helicopters.

There is no need to look at ancient history for evidence of aliens. It diminishes the accomplishments of the Ancients to say that they had "help".

Extras:

Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: crystalhuman]
#908024 - 09/25/02 06:55 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

Please put your von Daniken books away and do some real research.

feel free to continue believing we are the highest form of life in the universe with pride. frankly, the idea makes me sick.

Yet another newbie incapable of logical debate.

--------------------

The proof is in the pudding.

Extras:

Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: In(di)go]
#908031 - 09/25/02 06:58 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

I t saddens me that you think that to be an excellent point.

--------------------

The proof is in the pudding.

Extras:

dee_N_ae
\/\/¡†¢h |-|øµ§³ ¢å†

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 2,473
Loc: The Shadow of Neptune

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: Swami]
#908085 - 09/25/02 07:28 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

LOL
roast em', swam. :grin:

:grin:

Further thoughts...
Today I was introduced to the idea that all this "alien" information, like stuff about all the different types of races and why they're talking to us is a bit akin to a modern demonology.

"\De`mon*ol"o*gy\ (?; 277), n. [Demon + -logy: cf. F. d['e]monologie.] A treatise on demons; a supposititious science which treats of demons and their manifestations. --Sir W. Scott.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, ? 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
"

The word Demon carries alot of baggage, but upon further investigation it turns out not to be all scary with horns and stuff.

"dai?mon Pronunciation Key (dmn) also de?mon or dae?mon (dmn)
n. Greek Mythology
An inferior deity, such as a deified hero.
An attendant spirit; a genius."

"2. One's genius; a tutelary spirit or internal voice; as, the demon of Socrates. [Often written d[ae]mon.]"

"An inferior deity, such as a deified hero." doesn't apply but I thought I'd include it anyway so ya'll wouldn't think I was just getting definitions to fit a hairbrained theory. :smirk:

:smirk:

Anyway, I myself have long wanted to believe in "aliens". Good creatures from far away, more advanced than us, coming to help us...some coming to probe us. I've also read plenty of "channeled" material, much of which seems like utter nonsense to me. I've never encountered a being I would describe as not of this world (some freaky ravers though), and I've never seen a UFO in real life.

So where am I going with this? Well, I know a man who's, shall we say, been around the block. He thinks that some extra-governmental organisation (probably the CIA), operating through the military, is perpetrating a giant hoax on mankind with experimental aircraft, holograms, and telepathy mind control techniques, presenting it as a *very real thing* to the people who experience contact.
He believes this is all in effort to establish a "modern demonology" that millions of people, who aren't swayed by the relegions earth has provided, will blindly turn to for guidance as "the shadow government" is busy taking over the world.

I for one believe none of it.
And I also do not deny the experience of others.
I've read some channeled material that directly contradicts these beliefs, but I do not fully accept that as a doctrine either. It's all information for us to use for either good or bad purposes.
Whether you choose to; accept, and fear - or - accept, love, and keep questioning, is what matters. Keep love in your mind as well as year heart.

Extras:

chodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: dee_N_ae]
#908197 - 09/25/02 08:29 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

Interesting man you know there, I here quote myself from an earlier post.

"I here make a prediction on the record of what's to come in the future. I predict there will be a fake alien invasion staged on planet earth in about 30 to 100 years." read my full analysis/prediction here http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum11&Number=898531&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=2

guess that makes two whackos who've been around the block :grin:

:grin:

Extras:

dee_N_ae
\/\/¡†¢h |-|øµ§³ ¢å†

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 2,473
Loc: The Shadow of Neptune

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: chodamunky]
#908239 - 09/25/02 08:41 PM (23 years, 10 months ago)

Damn, sorry I missed that the first time around, thx for the link. How old are ya?

Extras:

In(di)go
People of the sun.

Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 8,158
Loc: Cologne, Germany

Re: aliens don't exist, I have proof

[Re: Swami]
#909215 - 09/26/02 04:53 AM (23 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I t saddens me that you think that to be an excellent point.

awwwwwwwwwwww :frown:

:frown:

hehehe

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Edited by Lozt Soul (09/26/02 04:54 AM)

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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